Came across this artical on the web & found it interesting.
by Peter Hipson 11/10/2003
There is *no* advantage to adding motor oil, or transmission fluid to diesel fuel. Period.
There are disadvantages to doing this however, including damaged injector pumps (especially with turbo diesel electronic pumps), clogged filters, etc.
The manufacturer of our injector pumps strongly cautions against using either when their pumps are used.
There are many additives that are approved, and are in fact *much* cheaper than either motor oil, or transmission fluid. As an added bonus, these additives really work!
Most diesel fuels and engines don't need additives, but if you feel the urge to pour something else in the tank besides diesel fule, use a product that is *specifically designed for the purpose*.
Kerosene is added to diesel fuel by some suppliers, though in small quantitites. Kerosene has virtually no lubrication qualities--adding more (and an essientially unknown amount, since you don't know if or how much has already been added by the supplier!) is a sure way to cut the life of your injector pump. Kerosene is routinely added to home heating oil, in large quantities. The furnace doesn't know, or care. The furnace oil pump does not have the same clearances (they are more crude, greater clearances, lower pressure...) and the kerosene won't hurt them. Most will (and often do) run on straight kerosene--here in NH, if the oil tank is outside, the mix will be either 50/50 or straight kerosene. Kerosene doesn't have the same heat values either, you won't get the same amount of power from a gallon of kerosene as from heating oil, or diesel fuel.
#2 diesel fuel is basically #2 heating oil, with the exception that rather than adding kerosene the supplier will add an anti-gel additive. Costs more, but then it sells for more. In the summer, there is virtually no difference, other than legal issues. (again well debated).
Bottom line:
A wise owner will add nothing to the fuel tank that is not designed for the purpose. People who pour whatever they have at hand (motor oil, atf, gasoline additives (yes, some do!)) simply add to the profits that repair shops (such as mine) make. It is a big buck job to replace the injector pump, you dno't want to do it any more than necessary.
The 6.5s injector pump is good for at least 100K miles if not abused. Most owners get many more miles than that, however.
[size=18]About Diesel Fuel
By Bill King 12/8/2000
With all of the recent talk about using Kerosene (number 1 diesel) as a motor fuel and the differences between grades of Diesel Fuel, I thought I would pass along to the group my short course on refined petroleum.
In the hierarchy of refined petroleum products from highest to lowest (from a gaseous state, then liquid, to solid) are: natural gas; "wet" natural gas; high-octane aviation gasoline; automotive gasoline; finished kerosene; home heating oil; diesel fuel; industrial fuel oil; finished lubricating oils; waxes and paraffin's; gas oil; coke and finally asphalt. Also moving from highest to lowest, the viscosity, or stiffness, of the refined product increases. For example, at room temperature, automotive gasoline flows much more freely than finished lubricating oils.
Diesel fuel lies in the middle of the refined petroleum hierarchy and is considered one of the middle distillates -- slightly heavier than kerosene and slightly lighter than industrial (bunker) fuel oil. Like automotive gasoline, diesel fuel is refined into several sub-categories or grades. From highest to lowest viscosity are Number 1 Diesel Fuel (1-D), Number 2 Diesel
Fuel (2-D) and Number 4 Fuel Diesel (4-D). There used to be a Number 3 Diesel Fuel (3-D), but it is no longer refined.
Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel is slightly lighter than industrial fuel oil and is used in low and medium speed engines that operate at a constant or near-constant speed, such as stationary power plants or railroad locomotives. Even though Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel has an ignition quality similar to Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel, it is too thick to work well in a truck engine where the load on the engine is constantly changing and requires varying amounts of fuel to be injected into the cylinders.
Just above Diesel fuel in the middle distillate category is Kerosene. Like Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel, Kerosene has an ignition quality similar to Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel. But unlike Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel, which is too thick, Kerosene is too thin to work well as an engine fuel. The thickness of the diesel fuel itself acts as a lubricant to prevent wear of the engine's fuel injectors. This lubricating quality of diesel fuel is why some Old-timers still refer to it as "Diesel Oil." Adding a common lubricant to Kerosene usually decreases its ignition quality.
Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel are the primary fuel for mobile diesel engine applications. Number 1 Diesel Fuel is commonly labeled at the pump as "Premium Diesel" or with a Cetane number of 44 or 45. It is not as thick as Number 2 Diesel Fuel and for this reason is the choice for motorists during the cold winter months. The disadvantage of Number 1 Diesel Fuel is that it does not have the lubricating qualities associated with Number 2 Diesel Fuel. While Number 2 Diesel Fuel has a higher lubricating quality than Number 1 Diesel, its thickness can cause rough starting in a cold engine and rough-running in cold weather. Number 2 Diesel Fuel is usually labeled at the pump with a Cetane number of 40.
Home Heating Oil is closest to Number 2 Diesel Fuel in ignition quality and lubricating ability. But before anybody rushes to put this non-road taxed fuel in their truck, consider this: refiners don't intend Home Heating Oil to be used in an internal combustion engine and the furnace fuel that is sitting in your basement tank may or may not have the smoke suppressants, ignition accelerators and biocides to kill fungi and bacteria that we generally assume to be present in the Diesel Fuel at the pump.
Cetane:
#2 diesel should have a cetane rating between 40-55. If I remember correctly, nothing lower then 45 should be run in most common diesel engines, lest it's non-turbo. The higher the cetane rating the better, especially on cold days, as it will make starting an easier process. In the winter, look for the highest number you can find. Also ensure you are using a good additive (Power Service Grey bottle, I have personally had good luck with..it not only has the antigel/anti wax agent, but it also provides for good lubrication of the injector pump, and thus should also keep the rest of the system 'good to go').
Dump Motor Oil or ATF in your Diesel ?
by Peter Hipson 11/10/2003
There is *no* advantage to adding motor oil, or transmission fluid to diesel fuel. Period.
There are disadvantages to doing this however, including damaged injector pumps (especially with turbo diesel electronic pumps), clogged filters, etc.
The manufacturer of our injector pumps strongly cautions against using either when their pumps are used.
There are many additives that are approved, and are in fact *much* cheaper than either motor oil, or transmission fluid. As an added bonus, these additives really work!
Most diesel fuels and engines don't need additives, but if you feel the urge to pour something else in the tank besides diesel fule, use a product that is *specifically designed for the purpose*.
Kerosene is added to diesel fuel by some suppliers, though in small quantitites. Kerosene has virtually no lubrication qualities--adding more (and an essientially unknown amount, since you don't know if or how much has already been added by the supplier!) is a sure way to cut the life of your injector pump. Kerosene is routinely added to home heating oil, in large quantities. The furnace doesn't know, or care. The furnace oil pump does not have the same clearances (they are more crude, greater clearances, lower pressure...) and the kerosene won't hurt them. Most will (and often do) run on straight kerosene--here in NH, if the oil tank is outside, the mix will be either 50/50 or straight kerosene. Kerosene doesn't have the same heat values either, you won't get the same amount of power from a gallon of kerosene as from heating oil, or diesel fuel.
#2 diesel fuel is basically #2 heating oil, with the exception that rather than adding kerosene the supplier will add an anti-gel additive. Costs more, but then it sells for more. In the summer, there is virtually no difference, other than legal issues. (again well debated).
Bottom line:
A wise owner will add nothing to the fuel tank that is not designed for the purpose. People who pour whatever they have at hand (motor oil, atf, gasoline additives (yes, some do!)) simply add to the profits that repair shops (such as mine) make. It is a big buck job to replace the injector pump, you dno't want to do it any more than necessary.
The 6.5s injector pump is good for at least 100K miles if not abused. Most owners get many more miles than that, however.
I think one thing thats important to note is that most ppl on this site add atf or WMO to the tank to provide another source of fuel, not to use it as an additive as I believe he suggests in this post.
bottom line is that this stuff(diesel) is getting outta site and I'll pour in my tank whatever I can other than diesel so that all my $ doesn't go to some arab who wants me dead. if it costs me an injector pump every 6 months it's still cheaper than buying diesel all the time.
I think Jwaller is right. Most of us run what ever we can find instead of diesel. WMO has been a wallet saver for me. I've burned a few thousand gallons already with no problems. And at these prices probally saved close to 7K$ in fuel cost. I can get two trucks for that price. There is lube requirments for diesel. And as they changed to ULSD they had to replace the lube. Id did take a while and some people lost some IP's.
As far as the #4 goes. I can sometimes score some from a chief engineer on a ship we work on. That stuff will make a 6.2 wake up. It has a higher BTU rating than #2 and is still high sulfer. I don't run it in the M35 because it's red and i don't want to get my tank dipped. I wish i had a steady supply!
I don't normally pass along e-mail chain letters because I think most of the time the information is full of cr p; but if you don't want to support people that hate us, then you might want to avoid certain oil companies and buy from Sunoco, ConocoPhillips, Sinclair, BP / Phillips, ARC0, Flying J and the others listed:
Subject: FW: BUY AMERICAN GASOLINE! JUST A REMINDER!! BUY AMERICAN GASOLINE!!! WHERE TO BUY AMERICAN GASOLINE.
Gas rationing in the 70's worked even though we grumbled about it.It might even have been good for us! Are you aware that ("OUR FRIENDS")the Saudis are boycotting Americanproducts? Shouldn't we return the favor? Can't we take control of our owndestiny and let these giant oil importers know who REALLY generates theirprofits, their livings? How about leaving American Dollars in America andreduce the import/export deficit?An appealing remedy might be to boycott their GAS. Every time youfill up your car you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of SaudiArabia . Just purchase gas from companies that don't import their oil from theSaudis.Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fillup my tank, I'm sending my money to people who I get the impression want me, myfamily and my friends dead. Don't you think it might be of interest to knowwhich oil companies import Middle Eastern oil and which do not?These companies import Middle Eastern oil:
Shell..................................... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco.................... 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil........................ 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway............ 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco.................................. 62,231,000 barrels
And CITGO oil is imported from Venezuela by Dictator Hugo Chavez whohates America and openly avows our economic destruction! (We pay Chavez's regimenearly $10 Billion per year in oil revenues!) The U.S. currently imports 5,517,000 barrels of crude oil per dayfrom OPEC. If you do the math at $95 per barrel, that's over $524 million PERDAY ($191 BILLION per year!) handed over to OPEC, many of whose members are ourconfirmed enemies!!!!!Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Easternoil:
Sunoco......................... 0 barrels
Conoco......................... 0 barrels
Sinclair....................... 0 barrels
BP / Phillips................ 0 barrels
Hess. .................................................. .. 0 barrels
ARC0............................................ 0 barrels
Maverick........................ 0 barrels
Flying J. .............................................. 0 barrels
Valero............................. 0 barrels·
I AM GOING TO ADD THE FOLLOWING... Ja.. Murphy Oil USA sold at Wal-Mart is from South Arkansas andowned by USAb.. Not only that they give scholarships to all children intheir town who finish high school and are legal US citizens.All of this information is available from the U.S. Department ofEnergy and each company is required to state where they get their oil and howmuch they are importing. But to have a real impact, we need to reach literally millions ofgas buyers With the help of the internet, it's really simple to do.
Harriette Schofield,
Broker AssociateKeller
Williams Realty
Carmel26200 Carmel Rancho Boulevard
Carmel, CA 93923831-901-7176 (cell)
thanks for the thorough explaination on the different types of fuel out there...and how they are refined.........i for one buy from hess...or valero......so im feeling good about that......
Most diesel fuels and engines don't need additives
Which is probably true, but any mechanically injected diesel that has a pump cooled and lubricated by the fuel DOES need an additive if you want it to live a long time! The Stanadyne DB2 pumps certainly fall into this category.... Stanadyne themselves even published a study (trying to sell you their additive) comparing wear from treated vs. untreated fuel, and the difference was dramatic.
A deuce's Bosch pump is interesting, it has motor oil lubrication yet I still believe hydraulic head wear / failure can be prevented with an additive. I like 2-stroke oil myself...
Jon
__________________
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Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
--
1951 M52 Tractor with 6-71N Detroit Diesel
1952 V18A/MTQ Studebaker Earth Borer - Pole Setter GASSER AND STAYING THAT WAY!
1962 M197A1 Converter Dolly
1966 M274A2 Mule
1967 M105 Trailer
1968 M35A2 Kaiser-Jeep W/W
1968 M146 Trailer
1970 M274A5 Mule NEED REAR ENGINE GUARD. STOOPID $$$ WILLING TO BE SPENT - PM ME!!!
1984 M1009 Blazer
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JDToumanian For This Useful Post:
I have been educated to believe 2 cycle oil at a ratio of 1 ounce per gallon of fuel pumped into the tank is a great benefit to the plungers in the hydraulic head and the injector pop off plungers. I also have been boycotting Exxon/Mobil and patronizing Hess for at least 10 years. of course, I don't do Walmart either. JT out
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The older I get, the more I know I don't know, but how I love a Deuce
This article has nothing to do with the multifuel engine in the deuce. The injector pump is different, the injectors are different, and the pistons are different than the usual over the road diesel engine. It's kind of like if the article was telling you that you never need to add 2 stroke oil to a gasoline engine.... and we ran trucks that used 2 stroke engines.
-Chuck
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to stumps For This Useful Post:
I believe Harriette Schofield has been misinformed. First, it is Conoco/Phillips, not BP/Ph. Most , but not all, of Sunocos oil comes fom Nigeria. Sinclair strictly imports Canadian oil. Seems Canada is one of our biggest sources, who knew? As for Citgo and the dictator Chavez, Let us not forget, he(through Cutgo) GAVE millions of barrels of heating oil to less fortunate families in the US when heating oil hit $4+ per gallon a few years back
Oh, and Valero imported 1903+ million barrels from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
I guess you were correct, most chain email is garbage
Info on Diesel Fuels
p; but if you don't want to support people that hate us, then you might want to avoid certain oil companies and buy from Sunoco, ConocoPhillips, Sinclair, BP / Phillips, ARC0, Flying J and the others listed:
