hydraulic winch on m715

I have a 20,000 pound winch that is pto I converted it to accept a hydralic pump my m715 has a 427 big block tubo 400 and stock divorced case i need a way to get hydraulics on it for the winch. Yes i know about the hydralic pump with a/c clutch in granger and northern but too rich for my blood . Thought about adding extra power steering pump just for winch have 2 laying around . just thought you guys can help out with delema.

i think it could be done with a lil fab, you would have to modify the valves and orfice's in the pump though. i think the max displacement is 2-3 gpm on the saginaw power stering pump though. how big is the hydro motor on the winch?

A PS pump will work but it's going to be very,very slow. Just not enough GPM there even compared to the clutch pumps.

Aside from the hyd question, are you going to mount a 20K winch on the front of your M715?

Kipman has some nice hydro pumps new for a good price. Might want to PM him. You could hook it up to a clutch type pulley for motr drive or find a pto for the 205 Tcase.

I have a 715 that was a contact maint. truck, it already has dual pto's I have been thinking of running a hyd. pump off the transfer case pto to power the front winch since the engine conversion interferes with the winch shaft. I even has a couple of hyd. pumps laying about to drive the winch. One more project!
James

ODdave said:

i think it could be done with a lil fab, you would have to modify the valves and orfice's in the pump though. i think the max displacement is 2-3 gpm on the saginaw power stering pump though. how big is the hydro motor on the winch?

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I love to fab ck it out "m715a2". I havent finished it but now it has a all aluminum gate on the back the sides and top are all steel and a small crane is in the works for the back.. I made the bracket on the pump to accept a 2 or 4 bolt pattern pump but do not have a motor yet . Over the years working on heavy equipment i noticed that we have used a pump as a motor and vise vers my thoughts was find a motor that produced higher rpms with less gpm and modifiing the ps pump like found on rock ready to get gpm up

m16ty said:

A PS pump will work but it's going to be very,very slow. Just not enough GPM there even compared to the clutch pumps.

Aside from the hyd question, are you going to mount a 20K winch on the front of your M715?

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Yep 20k for the frount . Ihave done a lot of off road recovery of equipment and buddys no one likes to take a 50000 dollar wrecker in woods or constuction yards to pull something out . Not to mention the old m715 is getting pretty heavy

m16ty said:

A PS pump will work but it's going to be very,very slow. Just not enough GPM there even compared to the clutch pumps.

Aside from the hyd question, are you going to mount a 20K winch on the front of your M715?

Click to expand...

gimpyrobb said:

Kipman has some nice hydro pumps new for a good price. Might want to PM him. You could hook it up to a clutch type pulley for motr drive or find a pto for the 205 Tcase.

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Mine has a np 200 case no pto holes but i do have a old duce with the drilling rig on the back has a 30000 or 40000 pound rear winch and has the pto ports . But that will be another project i dont have time for but might have to (boy is my wife going to be pissed)

I,ve got to convert a stock m715 winch to hydraulic drive myself...... i,ll probably do the pump off a np205 route

bcowanwheels said:

I,ve got to convert a stock m715 winch to hydraulic drive myself...... i,ll probably do the pump off a np205 route

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You have any idea where to get a 205 that is not astronomical in price gets in that price range ill get a belt drive hydraulic pump

rudedog if i was you i,d check this site out. i,ve bought a bunch off of it for my builds but as you know all good parts arnt cheap. expect to pay 150.00 to 375.00 annd be willing to travel to pick it up.
regards
bob

http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/index.php

also belt drives are problem prone when you put a big load on them like a hi-gpm pump will do. IMO do it right and be done with it so you can depend on it when you need it.
just a thought
bob

rudedog said:

my thoughts was find a motor that produced higher rpms with less gpm and modifiing the ps pump like found on rock ready to get gpm up

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Everything is a trade off. The higher RPM motor you get the less torque it's going to have.

To figure what size motor you need first find the gear ratio of the winch and the dia of the drum. After you have that info multiply the winch winch drum radius (1/2 the dia) with the line pull. Then divide that number by the gear ratio of the winch. That should give you the inch/lbs needed to turn the winch at max pull. Most hyd motors are rated in inch/lbs torque. That's pretty much going to tell you the motor you're going to need and you're going to have to size your pump for speed.

Keep in mind also that you're going to need a fairly good size hyd tank or some sort of hyd cooler. Hyd motors under much load will heat the oil up pretty fast.

The 10,000 lb mile marker wench used the powder steering pump for the hyd. it worked well.
AEC Retired Tony

yes but he has a 20k winch

m16ty said:

... To figure what size motor you need first find the gear ratio of the winch and the dia of the drum. After you have that info multiply the winch winch drum radius (1/2 the dia) with the line pull. Then divide that number by the gear ratio of the winch. That should give you the inch/lbs needed to turn the winch at max pull. Most hyd motors are rated in inch/lbs torque. That's pretty much going to tell you the motor you're going to need and you're going to have to size your pump for speed. ...

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'Ty is alot closer to the money, although, as i found out there is a lot more information required to do it 'right.'

i have a hydraulic PTO calculator spreadsheet that can be used, but we need lots of specific info, such as:



winch:

• drum OD
• cable size
• max layers
• max desired line speed
• max desired line pull
• drum reduction ratio

also need:

• pump displacement
• motor displacement
• motor effeciency
• PTO-Engine ratio

this info will give us:

• first thru final drum layer shaft torque
• hydraulic flow requirements at first layer
• hydraulic pressure requirements at final layer
• hydraulic motor HP
• mechanical HP
• actual pump speed
• engine speed required
• PTO torque
• max oil flow rate
• minimum hose and fitting diameter

if you don't have this info, then you can just start hooking things up and seeing what you end up with. likely, you won't get it right the first time. things that can go wrong:

• overspeed the pump
• overspeed the motor
• winch too slow
• winch not strong enough
• break the winch
• burn up the motor/pump seals
• shear the PTO off

also dont forget a large resivour and a cooler for fluid. a p/s pump doesnt have enough capicity and when worked with a winch it will boil fluid very easy. no cheap way to do this correctly imo also why a 20k winch that is one heavy bugger 5/8 or 3/4" cable.... like a duse or larger

Mudguppy, You're right. There is more to it than I posted but I was trying to give the simple answer.

no worries - i first thought there was only the sizing relationship of the pump to motor to worry about. then when i got to talking with some hydraulic controls specialists, i learned how much really goes into it if you want it done 'right'.

pretty neat, actually.