Adv. Methods of Temp Control

Hey everyone-

I was browsing through cranetruck's online photo gallery, and was intrigued by the pictures of the engine cooling system in the Ameritruck Firetrucks (multistat controlled radiator shutters and fan clutch). I was wondering what the feasibility of this mod to the deuce would be.

I know from previous threads that there exists an electric fan(s) setup that would run off the 24v system. My question/discussion fodder is about the radiator shutters and fans in lieu of the winterization kit.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that installing some permanent insulation to the inside of the engine compartment would reduce the ambient heat transfer from that. Additionally, the winter grill cover serves to stop as much of the radiator from being exposed to passing air. Thus, with some insulation, some shutters and a multistat, you have an all-conditions-ready deuce.

SO, am I way off base? Or is it simply that the winterization kit is a much cheaper, simpler and fool-proof design? Or would a simpler way be to just do an electronic radiator fan? Or perhaps an electric water pump? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

Matt

I'd just wire up two 12v fans in series. The fans, believe it or not, on Ford Taurus's (and related blue oval products) are very good cooling fans and come with their own shrouds. You want to look for the 3 wire fans. Google this and you'll find that they are very desirable to motorheads.

First class bodger,
Bob

Kaydet said:

Hey everyone-

I was browsing through cranetruck's online photo gallery, and was intrigued by the pictures of the engine cooling system in the Ameritruck Firetrucks (multistat controlled radiator shutters and fan clutch). I was wondering what the feasibility of this mod to the deuce would be.

I know from previous threads that there exists an electric fan(s) setup that would run off the 24v system. My question/discussion fodder is about the radiator shutters and fans in lieu of the winterization kit.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that installing some permanent insulation to the inside of the engine compartment would reduce the ambient heat transfer from that. Additionally, the winter grill cover serves to stop as much of the radiator from being exposed to passing air. Thus, with some insulation, some shutters and a multistat, you have an all-conditions-ready deuce.

SO, am I way off base? Or is it simply that the winterization kit is a much cheaper, simpler and fool-proof design? Or would a simpler way be to just do an electronic radiator fan? Or perhaps an electric water pump? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

Matt

Click to expand...

interesting concept. My only fear about putting insulation would be messing up the stock airflow. YOu couldn't block any spots where air would normally be able to move (would have to be thin), since in summer you need to yank that cover off and it flows as designed. Wouldn't hurt putting underhood insulation on the undersides of the hood and side panels, though. But then again in the 70's here that hood burns to the touch, so keeping all that heat in could create a situation. I'd look at removable insulation.

For best performance you need to be able to control ALL the cooling devices. The system shown for the firetruck uses controls for the fan, the radiator shutters and the flow of the coolant and the result is an engine temp that only varies plus or minus a few degrees.

Driving up and down hills and mountains constantly changes the cooling requirements.
Driving from the mountains of Virginia South to North Carolina on the 5% grade on I-77 will lower the temp from about 180 to 140 without the radiator cover. The same run with the cover in place and open, changes the temp from about 185 to 150. This is for an ambient of about 50 deg F.
A fan clutch would be great.

Adding insulation would help some of the time, but lack of control of the fan is still the number one problem.
I have planned to run the truck WITHOUT the fan just for experiment's sake. I think that would be interesting, so just stay tuned.

Another thing is the poor resolution of the temp gauge on the dash. I use a digital thermocouple thermometer to monitor the temp during some drives and it really is an eyeopener to see the effect of gear selection and hills etc. Things that don't show up on the dash gauge.

While we are discussing engine cooling, make sure that your coolant is in good condition.

MM-
The only reason I suggested permanent insulation was because I thought I saw it in an A3, and thought..."that MUST be an improvement"

Cranetruck-
Do I understand correctly that there is already a thermostat that controls the flow of coolant to and from the radiator? I remember in the other post you mentioned it starting to open at 175 and fully opened at 190. So, to refine my question...

If I were to do the quad electric fan setup (upgrade alternator, too) using the slimline fans and a fan controller, and develop a shutter and control system, do you think I would still need the winterization kit?

I am very interested to make this an all-conditions-ready vehicle, so that if it suddenly gets nasty outside, I don't have to stand out in the nasties and put the cover on the front. :smurf: On the subject of nasties outside- MM mentioned that I should get Rockwells to deal with the snow, but R4x4 mentioned his opinion that most users won't appreciate/need the Rockwells. What are the pros/cons of such an install?


Thanks for all the input.

Matt

There is a thermostat, it begins to open at about 180 and is fully open at 195 or so. Most of the time it is only partially open. If the engine temp gets above 195 then there is no further control of the cooling, the engine is at the mercy of the driver to control the temp.

With the quad electric fans (space problem) and the radiator shutters there should be no need for the winter cover.

Not sure what "Rockwells" refer to. The axles are Rockwells. Lockers are the greatest for off-road, but I don't have any experience with them, only wish I had them sometimes.

In snow and mud you will need chains, period.

PS. Just because it's on the A3 version doesn't mean that it's an improvement. BB

Kaydet,

Allow me to throw in this tidbit! The "Winter Front" stays on my Deuce all Winter, and doesn't need to come off until the weather warms up to about 70!

I don't use my Deuce to haul anything but me and some Veterans in a parade! Take that into consideration if you are using the Deuce like Cranetruck does!

As Cranetruck has pointed out, happiness is a warm Deuce!

As far as a fan clutch goes, it would be very easy to put one between the fan and the pulley that drives it. The only consideration would be OAL of the fan assembly... perhaps there's a shorter fan available, however, with a viscous drive that would help control the cooling a bit better.

Bob

Everyone-
Thanks for the info!!!!

Cranetruck-
To be honest, I thought the term Rockwells was slang for the lockers. I tried using the lingo like a big kid. :blush:

Trango-
Enlighten this poor soul- what's a viscous drive?

Does anyone know the dimensions of the radiator? And what is the proper name for a temperature controlled air valve? Or a temperature contolled solenoid? Best places of purchase?

Matt

Also consider that the arctic kit for the deuce has a really nice quilted blanket that covers the hood and side covers of the engine compartment. Easeir to deal with than installing and removing insulation for the season.

I mean a viscous drive fan. The deuce fan is a direct connect. A fan with viscous coupling spins only when the engine gets hot (in theory).

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system9.htm

Cheers
Bob

Hey Bjorn I did use your idea on the plywood cover ( well I had cardbord ) [] but it works great! its about 30 out here now and I can get it up to 170,what a power jump!!! this thing really moves like keeps up with them little cars. I never knew how fast this thing really was. I have only had it for 6 months ( winter) so it was always really cold. cant wait to see all you guys, I feel a race coming on [^]

You gotta love the deuce!

Has anyone tried a "Flex Fan"? Or know how much power oyu would gain with an electric and no engine driven fan?

well a flex fan flexs and if it flexs about 3/4 of a inch it could chop the rad and thats not good.

I did some research into how much hp a engine fan takes up and acorrding to several sources, it is some where between 12-18hp for normal car small truck sized fans, i don't know how big fans are on the dueces, b/c of my lack of one, but i can only assume they are big chunks of steel, and i can only assume that it would be more, but i could be wrong due to diffences between diesels and gassers.

Running an electric fan is a good option because you can easily control it, however , electric power is not free. With an electric fan you will have to upgrade to a 60 amp aleternator. It will still cost a few HP's.

Bjorn,

I thought the Deuces already came with a 60 amp.. Do you mean upgrade to the 200 amp. or is there a 50 amp or less that was OEM?

DR, a 25 amp dc-generator plus separate regulator (black box on the fire wall) was the original system, from the 1960's anyway.

Bjorn,

Ok, I guess I have a moded. alt. then because the case says she's a 60 amp. 24v. unit. So if I decide to put an electric fan on I'd have enough power to do it, right?