delaware dmv "no more mv registrations"

I bought my first MV (1991 bym m923A2) in february and tried takeing it through motor vehicle inspection twice . only to be told de. will not tag any former mv. when i pressed the head of our local dmv, i was told de will not register or re-register any former mv's. the reson is that they were not built to meet federal highway regulations. really? give me a break. how many antique cars on the road meet those standards? for that matter how is it you can buy an after market frame , engine, drive train," 32" ford fiberglass body, and put it together in your garage and have it titled as a "32" ford . federal highway regs my butt. I told him " I know what this all about , the goverment doesn't want the people to have access to the same hardware they have"

opcorn:

I would keep bumping it up the chain of command. Besides, the federal highway system was built for these military vehicles. petty bureaucrat BS.

just got off the phone with my state reps office. they are hot on the case ( i hope) also no where in the de motor vehicle code are fmv's mentioned

Go get em! Keep us posted.

I would read the registration process documentation on Delaware to first understand the laws and procedures. If they decided to stop registering them it would have been the result of a law change in most instances. There is few long threads on this related to WISC and GA that will give you alot of background on the process and how change was enacted.

There are many other Delaware members that have not yet brought this up to my knowledge so this may not be true.

Look in my signature for more details.

The key is to first be educated about the situation and then formulate a plan of attack if this is true.

KansasBobcat said:

Go get em! Keep us posted.

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I would have said "move to a state like Texas that let's you register them" but it's a better idea to stay there and fight the governmental over reach. If enough people would do that, like GA did, maybe we can overpower petty little bureaucrats that think no one can decide what's best for you except them.

georgie c said:

I bought my first MV (1991 bym m923A2) in february and tried takeing it through motor vehicle inspection twice . only to be told de. will not tag any former mv. when i pressed the head of our local dmv, i was told de will not register or re-register any former mv's. the reson is that they were not built to meet federal highway regulations. really? give me a break. how many antique cars on the road meet those standards? for that matter how is it you can buy an after market frame , engine, drive train," 32" ford fiberglass body, and put it together in your garage and have it titled as a "32" ford . federal highway regs my butt. I told him " I know what this all about , the goverment doesn't want the people to have access to the same hardware they have"

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If you were told then did you ask to see the DMV registration policy where it says this? It is always best when confronted with an answer that you may not like or disagree with to make sure you get in writing or policy where it states these facts.

Secondarily the statement that "they will not re-register" any vehicles is interesting as the courts in Wisc have already overturned previous rulings where it was determined that once the state grants a right to an individual it can not arbitrarily take these rights away. Thus in court if Delaware does in fact say that we are not going to reregister MV's then we have good basis to fight this already set in the court system.

Bottom line is that until a document is produced that clearly shows that DE will not register these we are all talking hearsay.

I can not get to a good inet connection on the plane right now to look this up.

Most states have a law on the books that says the vehicle has to meet the FMVSS for the year of manufacture, no look-back for new laws unless the law specifically states that, and those are VERY far and far between (I've never heard of one for vehicles, except for emissions in CA) - huge financial burden for retrofitting older vehicles to comply with moder FMVSS. Food for thought, are you aware of any companies that make SRS air bags for 1950 cars and hot rods? Me neither...

If I read California's law correctly there must be a sticker saying that the vehicle meets FMVSS for that model year - that is what we call a "self certification". For CFR 49 FMVSS, the states are explicitly permitted to have a higher standard of performance than that which is set out by FMVSS. It is for that reason I agree with swiss, read up all of your state's current vehicle code. If you have to go out and pass a law to specifically allow former military vehicles, then go do it. IMHO it's better to live where something is explicitly permitted, rather than questioned by various people making their own interpretations based on a fuzzy law...

thanks for the input and the suggestions. de code makes no mention of fmv's. I have gone as far is I think I can with dmv employees ( a.k.a. low level government functionaries ) it was the same story at 2 different dmv facilities . this is a mandate from on high, so lets hope my state rep can get to the bottom of it.

del dmv

I almost forgot to mention that we are buying 132 acres in w.v. getting ready to bug out of the north east end of next year . YES WE ARE PREPPING FOR THE FALL

Is your vehicle registered as antique in DE?

georgie c said:

thanks for the input and the suggestions. de code makes no mention of fmv's. I have gone as far is I think I can with dmv employees ( a.k.a. low level government functionaries ) it was the same story at 2 different dmv facilities . this is a mandate from on high, so lets hope my state rep can get to the bottom of it.

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Please ask them to provide in writing where it states that your vehicle can not be registered. The next step would be to write a letter to the DMV commisioner of DE outlining the following:

1.) I went to the following 2 locations on these dates to register x vehicle.
2.) I was told by x person that I could not register
3.) I asked for written documentation and was told ?
4.) I am requesting a written response to why my vehicle can not be registered

Without a written reason by the state there is no basis to start any action yet. It has to be documented.

IT IS NOT REGESTERED NOR TITLESD YET. it will be antique next year( 25)

Not re registering former military vehicles is not good terminology for them to use. CUCVs and M880 series vehicles were built with the same equipment/components as their civilian counterparts. Plus what about all the off the shelf vehicles(f350s, vans, Chevy trucks, jeep Cherokees etc etc) the armed forces have used, will those be off limits to us to since Uncle Sam used them at one time.

Again I agree with swiss here - and oddave715.

Don't just walk out after being told "no", if they can't provide in writing why they are denying your registration, to "no" is probably "I don't know, and would rather not deal with it". If they can't tell you, you can always have the supervisor override the clerk, or give the law that was enacted that prevents you, or their name too to place in the letter to your DMV/representative.

You'd be surprised how often people confuse Policy and Rule/Law - if you follow the links to the Webster's Dictionary definition, you'll see that a policy is actually flexible based on the situation, it is more of a desired plan.

I agree, should a law be written to simply prevent a "former military vehicle" from being registered/titled, without an accompanying legal definition of what "former military vehicle" means, it should be an "easy" law to defeat or get changed. Taxpayers might have an issue with a state blocking the sale and operation of a vehicle that is street legal under federal law that belonged to a specific party before sale. When you think about it that way it sounds even stupider and less likely that there is a law to prevent the registration/titling of former military vehicles... what if you bought a 2005 Chevy Malibu that was used as a Base MP squad car? Someone may have "hearsay'd a memo into a law"... my .

georgie c said:

forgot to mention we are buying 132 acres in w.v. ready to retire end of next year . PREPPING TO BUG OUT OF THE NORTHEAST

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Georgie,
Sorry to hear of this. You may have the most expedient way of solving the problem, but it will be effecting others too. Have you contacted your state legislators yet?
The US Constitution REQUIRES each individual state to recognize deeds and licenses and such from other states. That's what keeps this whole bunch of 50 territories functioning together.
Why should I be able to drive my deuce & 1/2 in Delaware (because of reciprocity laws), but you can't - even though you vote there and pay taxes there?
MORE IMPORTANTLY, we discovered the MilSPEC documents that established that most tired military vehicles were built to military specs that were the same as FMVSS. That court case may be helpful. I'll add a link.
MIL-STD-1180-RevB http://everyspec.com/MIL-STD/MIL-STD-1100-1299/MIL-STD-1180B_22183/
See how your legislators feel about you buying a vehicle that's legal in the other 49 US states (plus most countries throughout the world), but your DMV doesn't recognize that.
I was in the fight here in Wisc. from more or less the beginning. I'd be happy to share any insights and information with you (or whomever is going to take on the fight in DE). I'll pm you my telephone and email info.
Registration is the responsibility of each individual state, so this depends on the laws in your state and how they are interpreted. But any vehicle over 25 years old is already exempted from federal requirements for FMVSS (safety standards).
Good luck.
2nd edit:
Look up Wisconsin Department of Administration, Div. of Hearings and Appeals, Case # TR-11-0016 here: http://www.doa.state.wi.us/documents/dha/Decisions/DOT/2011/110016.pdf
We lost the appeal, but got the case reopened when we found the MilSPEC document, and the final is here: http://www.doa.state.wi.us/documents/dha/Decisions/DOT/2012/110016.pdf
19 Month fight over a 1985 Chevy D-10 Blazer, but we won.

Print off those decisions, and take them along to your legislators office.
Have at 'er!

undysworld said:

The US Constitution REQUIRES each individual state to recognize deeds and licenses and such from other states. That's what keeps this whole bunch of 50 territories functioning together.

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Well, except the states have passed laws to explicitly allow other state's drivers to operate without a license.

For example:
WA: RCW 46.20.025
IN: IC 9-24-1-7
IL: 625 ILCS 5/6-102
WI: 343.05 (4)(b)(1)

If licenses had to be honored between the states by the constitution, my WA pistol license would be worth more than it's current value as toilet paper in CA, IL, NY, etc...

ONE more thing, WATCH what you say, I repeat WATCH you say, be nice even if you want to reach out and grab somebody by the neck and cut off there use of sane persons air. What ever you say WILL be remembered, you "could" find yourself arrested because someone took what you said as a threat OR felt threatened.

once again thank s to all of you for the words of encouragement. I am not ready to roll over on this one. as far as being careful what I say even though I may want to reach out and chock some one, I am a person who carry's every day and remain pleasant and courteous knowing this is a mandate from further up the line. I am awaiting word from my state rep. and will relay that info as soon as I receive it.