Heads Up Florida! New DMV definition coming!

OK so I went down to the local DMV office this morning to register the title for another Former Military Vehicle. I just read Florida DMV's policy/requirements a few days ago on the DMVs website but there's a lot that they didn't say so I asked at the DMV office.

Long story short, they couldn't figure it out either and couldn't even figure out how to issue a tag for a FMV. I came home and called my Fla State Senator's office and asked them for help. They said that they didn't know either and would have to check and call me back. This afternoon I got a call from a State DMV office somewhere in Volusia County.

In the long conversation that followed, they said that they are creating a NEW category for FMVs. This category WILL NOT get a title and transfers will be done by Bill Of Sale only!! I find this VERY hard to believe since Florida is so strict about titles. I also don't know how it's going to affect the ability to transfer ownership to someone else or a thousand and one other things. But they couldn't give me a straight answer about anything that I asked!

Also, this new category is going to NOT be considered On Road and it's also not going to be considered Off Road! I'm REALLY wondering how that's going to affect our ability to be allowed to drive them. I asked why they thought that they thought this change was necessary but all they could say is that they NEED to be able to regulate traffic and motor vehicles.

I then asked if there was some kind of problem with the FMVs currently on the road. They didn't even TRY to answer that! Plainly, there's no logical basis for what they want to do but it seems to already be in the works. I asked specifically who in the legislature was on this committee and how I could contact them but then the story changed again and now they say that it's a committee somewhere in the bowels of the DMV.

I was finally able to get one name and I will attempt to contact them tomorrow to get some more answers but for now I just want to alert everyone and also ask if anyone else was aware of this.

FWIW these two conversations lasted probably two hours and there was a lot more discussion than I care type up but needless to say, none of it indicates anything good for the owner and operators of FMVs and most of what they said just made no sense. Every question that I asked eventually ended up with them saying the same thing, namely; "Well you need to ask Mr **** about that.". Mind you that this is coming from someone well above the level of the local DMV office but they STILL couldn't provide reasonable answers!

Hopefully I'm wrong about this but if I'm right, then you guys NEED to start calling your local state representatives and asking W T H is going on!

March 11th was the last day of the 2016 Florida State Legislative session and it won't fire back up till August, with session starting January 2017, so it'll be a little while before any legislation is proposed. I hadn't heard anything about any new legislation effecting FMTV but with so many state senators and reps there's no telling what someone will try to legislate....

Initially they told me that the bill was in Fla legislature committee. But when I asked for more details they then said that it was in a DMV committee. What really concerns me is if DMV simply makes this change without going through the legislature or any kind of public hearing. AND before anyone tells me that that can't happen, I'll tell you that it HAS happened. I had a real go around with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission after they did the same thing and I finally had to get my Fla Rep involved before FFWCC backed off. Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow.

For what it's worth, local tag agencies can't issue FMV antique tags. There is no code in their system and Tallahassee knows this. They also can't override it so all tags of the sort must be issued by Tallahassee. Previously they could issue at the branches but only by listing the vehicle as fire apparatus. Perhaps something is in committee but I've not heard it yet. Dang, suppose I will order the tag for the 3rd CUCV before dung hits the fan.

heads up

I have a antique tag issued to my 1990 923a2 and it is not classified as fire apparatus.

Just another reason for me to move back to Carolina, roughly 319 more sunshines and I'm gone!

And we will be glad to have you Will.

Thanks Ken- wont be long brother!

Recovry4x4 said:

For what it's worth, local tag agencies can't issue FMV antique tags. There is no code in their system and Tallahassee knows this. They also can't override it so all tags of the sort must be issued by Tallahassee.

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That's exactly what I found but even the local DMV didn't know that they couldn't issue the tags and three out of the four people in the office were hunting through their computer trying to figure out why! When I talked to state DMV office that told me that the title/'not a title' had to be issued from Tallahassee and that I had to send everything there but even they didn't know the address that it had to be sent to! With all the BS, double talk, lack of answers, driving restrictions and now NO title I'm seriously thinking of just registering it as an antique vehicle. I don't THINK there are driving or title restrictions on them but I have to make sure of that. I should also check into a YOM tag.

As far as registering a title, as Florida resident, GP (and GL for that matter) should/did send you a Florida title IN YOUR NAME if you wanted them to issue you a title and you paid for it. The title is/was optional and cost extra.

If GP sent you a re-assigned title (one that that is in GP's name and signed over to you as buyer) that is WRONG. PM Jwade if this happened to you and get it fixed. I bought a trailer that came with a re-assigned title and not knowing any better paid again (I already paid GP for a Florida title) to get the title in my name. After contacting Jwade he said the title should have been in my name and I was issued a refund for the additional titling fee I paid at the DMV tag office.

Permanent Antique tags have been covered before. The local DMV tag office CAN NOT issue Permanent Antique tags for former military vehicles. RS-25 which covers the procedure was last revised in 2012 and is still valid. The form number is listed in the procedure, just down load it, fill it out and mail it in with your check and in 4 to 6 weeks your tag will come in the mail.

http://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/RS/RS-25.pdf

Dodge man what kind of FMV are you trying to register ?

Tow4 is correct. Here's the form for registering a FMTV in Florida.

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/btr/83045.pdf

I hope that you do not mind I edited your post for legibility.

I also added one comma.

Finally getting around to registering my M38A1. Deputy was just out here a few minutes ago to check the VIN. No problems so far with getting it transferred into my name but I AM concerned about this "No Title" business and I'm VERY concerned about the "it's not an on-road vehicle and it's not an off road vehicle" policy that DMV is talking about. I don't know if that has taken effect yet or if it's just something that they're planning. They did issue a title for the last MV that I registered about five years ago and that was done through the local DMV office with nothing exceptional. I've been calling the guy that the DMV said to talk to to get further information but so far "he's not in his office".

Dodge man said:

Finally getting around to registering my M38A1. Deputy was just out here a few minutes ago to check the VIN. No problems so far with getting it transferred into my name but I AM concerned about this "No Title" business and I'm VERY concerned about the "it's not an on-road vehicle and it's not an off road vehicle" policy that DMV is talking about. I don't know if that has taken effect yet or if it's just something that they're planning. They did issue a title for the last MV that I registered about five years ago and that was done through the local DMV office with nothing exceptional. I've been calling the guy that the DMV said to talk to to get further information but so far "he's not in his office".

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Maybe they are updating the FMV law to address people trying the title/register the "OFF ROAD USE ONLY" HWWMV's that are being sold .

hmmm. You could be right. But from what they told me, they're going to allow people to register former MVs with just a bill of sale so I don't understand how that's going to prevent anything. That was one of the questions that I asked and that they didn't have any answer to. I just don't see that this change actually benefits The State and I'm really worried about what kind of secondary effects that it may have on the owners.

Speakin' as an out-of-stater, as it were, my knowledge is not Florida-based. But I think you guys are correct and wise to be worried about a change which would eliminate titles, if that's what's happening.
Titles denote ownership of the vehicle. They have nothing to do with registration and license plates (on-road use). So titles get transferred to the buyer, when you sell.

If your state doesn't issue title, things may go smoothly if you sell it within your own state. But if you sell it out-of-state, it depends on the laws and DMV policies within the buyer's state. Some states do not accept Bill of Sale or previous Registration documents in the same way that they accept a Title. Buyers may be required to bond for Title with a surety bond or other procedures. Best to avoid the problem if possible.

Maybe it is in response to some particular issue. If it's the Humvees and the govt. wants to make sure they stay off-road, that explains the lack of SF97 or Titles. Separate issue, in my mind.

To my knowledge, your DOT/DMV can only administer the state's laws. They can't just be making stuff up. If you're having problems, call your representatives and let them know what your problem is. This may turn out to be nothing, and they might help you figure it out. Or maybe it's the beginning of some real headache and you're catching wind of it early.

Either way, good luck on things.

SUBSCRIBED and Actively Observing from Texas.

This is why every American High School student should be required to pass a civics curriculum AND understand how Municipal, State, and Federal government works.

Thank you for your civic activism.

Watching opcorn:

porkysplace said:

Maybe they are updating the FMV law to address people trying the title/register the "OFF ROAD USE ONLY" HWWMV's that are being sold .

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This is exactly what I have heard. Also why they have stopped issuing titles out of FL for Govplanets HMMWV's.

DanM7890 said:

This is exactly what I have heard. Also why they have stopped issuing titles out of FL for Govplanets HMMWV's.

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From my perspective, FL ceasing to issue title would have the opposite effect. It's a difficult matter to administer, given the disparity between practices in the various states' DMVs.

At least in Wisconsin, off-road vehicles like mini-bikes, go-karts, ATV's and UTV's do not get a Motor Vehicle Title. Without a Title, the vehicle cannot be registered. Similarly, with a "NO OP WI ROADS" brand on a Wisconsin title, the vehicle cannot be registered.

Issuing title would provide Florida with a means of establishing ownership of the vehicle and a standardized public document identifying those vehicles which were sold for Off-Road-Only use by VIN.

florida title

I wondered why G.P. was always issuing a --FLORIDA-- title on the trucks they sold. The Humvee titles are a problem and will continue to be. The government clearly DOES NOT WANT THESE DRIVEN ON ANY HIGHWAY in KANSAS in TEXAS and in FLORIDA PERIOD! Now you add Mr. that rule doesn't apply to me or I'm going to try and beat the system and fake some documents and see if it will fly, then you have what is probably started this whole mess. It is almost a sin to talk about getting a title for a Humvee on this site-- why you ask-- BECAUSE LEGALY YOU CANT DO IT-- PERIOD! I have not heard of any mv accidents in this state that would bring the attention of DMV officials to change mv titling-- so everything up till now has been smooth sailing-- I guess time will tell. Well G.P. what state are you going to issue a B.S. off road title in now. How about the state of NOWHERE!