Looking at a Unimog

I am looking for a MilSpec Unimog Im thinking 404??????

Anyway I already own a Gama Goat so ungodly amounts of maintenance with no clearance and unavailable parts is nothing new.

I am also very close to the offroad park where I wheel and its beside the duck field where i hunt so it wont be running far

What i need to know is what is the average amount you would pay for a running driving gas Unimog, What is the avaerage time spent on maintinance per hour of driving roughly, and is the pinzgauer a better deal money not being an issue but for maintenance?

Ive looked at the Swiss Military Vehicles site in arkansas and the vehicles look great but the prices arent in line with what they are selling for on ebay.

What do you think of the vehicles overall???????/

thanks

I have a '62 404 ambulance. Everything is straight forward in terms of understanding how it all works. Parts are around. performance ones also. The 404 is good for about 50mph. Any higher than that is asking a lot for the transmission. The engine has no problem with it, but the transmission at high speed without add ons does cook eventually. It's great to drive off road. I liken it to riding an elephant. Just take your time and the suspension will do all the work and 1st and second gear are excellent. The clearance is great. I think something like 17" at the axle. The axles also sport mechanical lockers. Drum brakes. Look for a German truck as they are more likely to have power brakes. The ambulance or radio truck makes for an excellent camper. They do rust, so pay attention. The electrics of them are fine with the exception of the fuse blocks. I would recommend changing them out for circuit breakers if you can. Power house? no, but an excellent machine for what it was designed for, even my wife loves to drive it!

Unimogs

David, Unimogs are fun!
Typical German over-engineering equals difficult maintenance.
I don't own a Mog, but I have a See frame and axles and also a few 404 axles.
It's my humble opinion that Mog axles are some of the best axles ever made.
But you already know this.
Mogs are low speed animals, remember that and you won't be spending too much time on maintenance.
You own a Gamagoat, so you already know this.
Parts are out there, probably more than there are for Goats.
A couple of excellent websites exist for Mogs, actually better websites than the ones I've found for Goats.
As far as the fella in Arkansas goes, (Hiis name is Willy) the vehicles in his yard are all in superb condition, they are probably better than most Mogs on E-bay. Ditto for his other vehicles, Pinz's and Haflingers. His prices reflect the quality of his trucks. He also has a warehouse full of parts and is super knowledgeable about Swiss MV stuff.
I have been to visit him and buy stuff 3 times now, a round trip of about 1600 miles from my place. So yeah, I think he is worth a visit. Take a wad of cash with you, you know how that goes.
Now for the bad news, Willy (pronounced Villy) is on the road a lot, Switzerland, Germany and CA. Call in advance and make sure that he will be in Arkansas. He has a couple of very nice young ladies working there, but they do not know as much about the trucks as he does.
Bottom line is:
You own a goat, a Mog is similar in how much maintenance it requires.
Arkansas is worth a visit and his trucks are high but worth the money.
Happy shopping!
-Sarge

RE: Unimogs

Hi David. I had a 404.1 Radio truck or Funkwagen. They are typically cheaper than the cargo trucks. I took the box off and put a cargo bed on it. I off-roaded in it a good bit and the dang thing was pretty much un-stoppable. The only time I got it stuck was at Haspin, but that was because water was coming over the hood and I was afraid to go any deeper without a snorkel and other water-proofing. Mine had rust where the foot-wells meet the exterior sheet metal on both sides. That is a common problem. I also had to rebuild one of my portal boxes because of a failed wheel seal allowing for water intrusion and subsequent bearing destruction. They require large tools to work on them. I had to buy a metric striking wrench to get the huge gland bolt out of the hub assembly. Expedition Imports in Cali is another good source for parts. Scott and Cathy are very nice. I ended up selling my Mog for $5000 with the rust, needing painted, rust in the bed, marginal rear tires, leaking trailer brake controller, broken plastic in the soft doors and a good whine in 4th gear.

There is always a good supply of Mogs for sale on Unimog.net too. Check the classifieds out there. There is also a complete list of Mog dealers on the Rock Mountain Moggers site.

David, the reason Swiss Army Vehicles prices are a bit high is that, as Sarge said, his stuff is in excellent shape. I looked at his Unimogs last time I was there, one of them had less than 8k miles on it and it showed. The Swiss trucks were typically meticulously maintained in service and have low mileage (Mog wise). They also usually come with all the tools and other gear they had in service, and in many cases they come with the military maintenance records.
Apparently when the Swiss retire a vehicle, they just go pull it off the lot and sell it with everything inside. Mine came with manuals, a complete tool roll, jack and tire tools, fuel cans, spare parts, wooden blocks, and even a collapsible bucket, sponge and other cleaning gear. And, most importantly, the complete maintenance log to prove the 22,900 miles on the clock.
The Swiss don't salt their roads in winter, so their trucks tend not to be rusty, and Unimogs seem very prone to rust.

Blah, blah, long story short, the Swiss trucks tend to be in better shape so they cost more.

There are a few differences also. Swiss trucks have vacuum boosted brakes and have circuit breakers instead of the notoriously moody fuse block. The bed itself, cab and bed covers, are Swiss produced and differ from German style (ie everyone else's) so only Swiss covers fit them. You can easily put a German style cover and frame on the cab, but you have to change the windshield out too since the top attach points are different. Again, easy and pretty cheap.

I drive mine a lot and have put many miles on it. I have had no major problems at all. They are slow, do not like anything over 50 for any length of time, and will NOT maintain road speed even on fairly modest hills (which is why mine has a yellow strobe under the bed, it is on while I am plodding uphill). I still absolutely love it.

Cheers

ps slow as it is, it is still faster than my buddies in their M37s when we go places!

ive been reading about the circuit breaker issue. If I end up with one with a fuse block is it an easy conversion to put a set of circuit breakers in. The vaccum assist on the breaks would be nice but I can live without it if I have to. I can see from the pictures that the arkansas trucks are probably worth the money but im not sure that its worth the close to double price of a service grade unit is going for elsewhere. Money isnt as big an issue, I'm not afraid of spending money for quality equipment but in your opinion would it be more practical to improve one that needs some work for a 4000 to 6000 dollar unit or buy a complete runner for closer to 10,000. Im asking because a service grade model seems to be selling on ebay almost monthly in the 3500-6000 dollar range. Im not cheap just practical i guess.

Paint and some surface rust doesnt mean much to me as i'm probably going to be painting it anyway regardless. And what seems to be the deal with the half doors? Do any of them come with the soft window coverings or are they removed for the pictures usually.

Also Im going to be picking up a M105 trailer within the next few months will it track behind a Unimog? The trailer was actually a mistake I thought I was bidding on a 3/4 ton I was going to use with the Gama Goat but oh well......

I guess it depends on what you want and what you plan to do with it.
I took a look at Swiss AV site to see what was on there. That cargo truck is complete with all the bells and whistles, in great shape and has 10k miles on it. From what similar Swiss trucks have been going for on ebay, $9900 is not out of line, I have seen worse trucks go for more recently (including one for $20k to someone who didn't do his homework on what he was buying).
The cheaper trucks on ebay are usually stripped of most of the "extras", on average are 80k+ on mileage, and often modified by their owners.
Surface rust is not the worry with Unimogs, it is that deep flaking rot all the way through the panels you have to look for.

The doors are all two piece except for hard topped cabs. The lower section is metal, the upper section is plastic in a metal frame. Both have two large pins on the bottom edge that slot into the top of the door. The German style ones have a flap and two straps at the front that attach to the windshield, and have a small opening section. The Swiss ones slot behind a rain gutter on the windshield when the door closes, are a bit bigger and unobstructed vision-wise, but no opening panel. Both styles can be popped on and off in less than a minute.
The doors themselves also pop off in seconds, you just open it and lift up, the hinge pins slide right out.

Cheers

As regards pulling an M105 behind a 404 Mog, my personal opinion is I would not. That is a big and heavy trailer and the Mog has no way of powering the brakes. Empty you could move it around, but loaded it would scare me. I have an M101 for mine, and for me that is plenty big enough.
Others are free to disagree with me, I know some pull their M105s with Mini Coopers and such...

Cheers

Hello
Well first off, Rory I like the avatar image you have of the 404.1 & 5T it gives a good size comparison between the two MVs.

Davidkroberts
Have you contacted Sean Philyah down at eurotruck importers (www.eurotruck-importers.com)? He's a really good guy to deal with his shop is located in GA. I've driven the Swiss 404.1, German 416(diesel) and a 712M Pinzgauer (6X6). My impressions are these and I won't bore you with tectical mubo jumbo as I assume you already know the tech stuff.

Swiss 404.1 Nice usable size not to big, not to small although if you're not a 150-175 lb 18 year old, climbing up into the cab can be a little difficult as you have to step up onto the wheel and then up into the cab. Drivers postion was comfortable with good vis. front passenger's was a little on the cramped side. Manual steering was a lttle tough but ounce under way, it was ok. The one thing that I noticed above all other aspects of the 404 was that it's slow to get up to speed. I'm sure this is due to it's gearing and the fact that it's a truck designed for off road use not high way cruising. From what I've been told, the 404.1s were the fastest of the small mogs (well, small, compared to the U1300 series trucks) and parts are available (and affordable) for them.

German U416 The unit I drove was a cab & chassis that was a former public works vehicle. It had a hard cab on it and was equipped with disc brakes (I think all U416s came with discs) The cab on the 416 was a little easier to get into if I recall, but it has been a while.I thought that the diesel was quicker to get up to speed and hold it there. It had ex. stopping power due to the truck's aforementioned disc brakes (the drums on the 404 worked just fine, BTW). This diesel mog also had a fuel guage where as the Swiss version had a tank dip stick.I don't remember if the 416 had power steering or not I do remember that parts for them were very expensive.

Pinzgauer 712M The unit I drove was the 712M which is the soft top 6X6 variant of the Pinzgauer family. The pinz was easier to get into and out of then either mog due in part to it's lower hight, larger door and smaller tires. They come from the factory with seat belts, turn signals and a fuel guage. I thought that the Pinz was peppier than either diesl or gasser mog on road. I can't comment about off road as I didn't test drive any of the above vehicles off road. Parts for them are available through dealers and like the above 2 vehicles, belts, hoses & filters are readily available through your local parts houses.
If I had to pick one it would be hard. I like the 404 for it's styling and owner/operator costs and the power of the diesel 416 (I don't care for the parts pricing issues with the 416 though) but, I personally would probably go with the Pinzgauer but, hey I like small 6X6s anyway.That's just my Anyway, I hope this help's you out with your quest.
Good Luck!
Matt

Dave
There are reasons for the high differences in Mog prices. Not all Mil Spec Mogs are the same. The Swiss were pretty much the same platform and finish was done by the Swiss, and they took good care of them. The militaries ordered "per their needs", and if you look hard there are later 404s with a larger engine, power brakes, power steering, and air trailer brake setups( not necesarily on one truck). The diesel 406s and 416s don't all have disc brakes, earlier ones and some spec'ed ones have drum brakes. Belgium 416s also were fitted with breakers instead of fuses. You need to "dig" into each Mog you look at to see what the intended service it had. Most all the dealers know the different options and will point all anything unique, where a private owner may not know what things were on there for.
My opinion is to buy the best truck you can find ( and afford). I perfer one from a dealer first, mainly because they haven't " hacked" by an unknowing individual, or abused, and the dealers will usually go through them to make sure everything works.

Sean and Willy both are good people , and not mention above is Scott at : http://www.expeditionimports.zoovy.com/

Remember one thing, buying a Mog in need of some repairs, may need more in parts than getting clean truck in the first place.But there are no garantee either way.

Dave Dunn

thanks ya'll have been a big help. Im pretty convinced im going to be buying one within the next three months or so. Trying to get all my financials in order before hand so im in no big hurry. Ill be sure to post pictures when it gets delivered to the house!!!!!! this is going to be lots of fun. hope the wife doesnt leave me.

Good info from the other responses. I will add that I have dealt with several of the other Mog parts/vehicles guys listed here besides Willy and found them all to be great folks.

On the topic of getting into the Mog, on my first few times I imagine I must have looked something like the proverbial monkey with the football. Then I figured out the technique- you grab the handle by the dash with your left hand, the upper right doorframe with your right, step up on the wheel ring with your left foot and swing your right leg on into the cab (all in one motion). Works for me at 5'11" skinny and definitely not 18 anymore, and for my somewhat shorter (5'7"?) built-like-a-fireplug buddy.
Getting out just swing your legs out and slide off the mudguard.

404.1s look big, but they are really no bigger footprint wise than my Tahoe. Lot of fun once you get past the acceleration best measured on a desk calendar.

L1A1, here is another pic that illustrates size difference.

Cheers

If you really want to slow your Mog down, put a load in the bed I hauled everything in mine from firewood to boxes of office stuff through the Franklin flood waters. The emergency crews were very impressed when I drove the last of my belongings through cab deep water.

Dave,

I can't say enough good things about Unimogs. They are really fun to drive, reliable, cheap to fix, and there is a great support group. I beleive that Sean Philyaw does not sell 404's anymore since he is concentrating mostly on diesel Mogs, Gelandwagens, and diesel Mog parts. If you are going to buy a Mog, check the Unimog Exchange (www.unimog.net) or join the Unimog Mailing List (http://www.mogmsgexch.com/index.php).

I've used and abused my Mog and done some things that I would never do in any other vehicle. They really do hold up to that abuse. Since you are in Tennessee, conact Bob Ragan who is also in TN. He's on SS. He has several Mogs and can show them to you. This will help you familiarize you with each model.

Good luck!

(Photo of my Mog next to Bjorn's deuce)

i just went and looked over a mog. a 404 i believe.. couldnt find the owner but i looked em over out by his residence.. best i can tell they are gas due to the really old weak gas smell from the tank. they have folding troop seats and tires hold air. also from the pics shown here they have swiss looking doors but soft tops and cargo covers. now i wondered what you guys thought of a mog for first purchase? how hard are they to fix and what to look for in one that has had some down time?... what do you think is a reasonable price? i go back to see them tommorrow i hope..... what size tires will fit these? i think it had 10/10.5/20 firestones on em with spare.

thanks for your time
Lee

be sure to let me know how it goes and post some pics if you think about it.

i promise to get pics. what do i need to look for on these things that i'll guess "ran when parked"??? any common issues?

Check out rockymountainmoggers.com, good site for mog info.

June 6th, 2008 ("D"Day Anniversary)

Dear DKR:

Being as I have both a Swiss Army Cargo Unimog and a US Army 1971 Kaiser Jeep Deuce, I can spare some points of each for your consideration. I owned the Unimog first, and found it to be an above average runner (untill it tangled with some very foul Texas gasoline in January- it's still being worked on), the cab and bed paulin and tarpaulins were pretty much worn out (and no one in Texas does a good copy of the military cab first version). She has since been fitted with a civillian Mog distributer cap, plugs and wires, regapped to the correct (NOT the manual) breaker point settings, and recieved a new MB rebuilt fuel pump, and when she runs, she runs like a scared cat, the accelleration and power are good, handles more like a sports car then a truck. The deuce is just the average deuce, normally aspirated, accellerates like a brick falling uphill, turns like the Queen Mary, gets a little less MPG then the Unimog (8-11 vs. 10-13) has a great deal more pulling power, but doesn't have the locking differentials of the Unimog.
Unimog's can be shifted into FWD without the clutch, also into differential lock without the clutch (IF you're not spinning), the decuce can be locked into 6X6 without the clutch also. Worst feature on the Unimog--- Greasing the throwout bearing- also you'll need really long skinny arms to work on some parts of the engine, worst feature on the deuce----- almost everything needs a forklift or lift to work on because everything's large and very, very heavy (more like a locomotive then a truck)---- and you CAN stick a deuce (and when you do, get a gorilla sized wrecker). All in all, I'd hate to have to get rid of either of these vehicles (another good point--Unimog's are fairly easy to find parking spaces for, deuces- not so easy), I've owned the Unimog for 14 months and the Deuce for 9 months. The Swiss did take fairly good care of the vehicles, most replacements have been for age related deterioration issues (gaskets & c).
Good luck and happy hunting......

Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan

1971 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 Wo/W "Saddam's Nightmare" Desert Storm and Vietnam Veteran Deuce-Daily Driver!
1968 Johnson Mfg. Co. M105A2 trailer, OKLA Army National Guard
1967 Hercules MEP023A Generator Set
1963 Swiss Army Cargo Unimog S404.114 MB NATO Green, daily driver when she feels like it.....

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