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guido
12-16-2009, 05:53
Interested in knowing what the go is did anyone ever make or did these things have a indicators on them? And was there ever one of these made with a Diesel engine? I'm wanting to drop a diesel in the truck as it cheapens the rego and the indicators I'm not to sure on as the Road board that does our registration may ask me to put them on it. If you can help me out that would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

emr
12-16-2009, 17:26
silly question, what is a ...go, and what indicators are U meaning, like unit identification? And they were gassers for sure. I say that knowing the military may very well have tested diesels in some, and maybe some lend lease may very well of had a diesel in em, but to MY knowledge they were all gassers...

guido
12-16-2009, 18:33
a ...go is an expression. As for indicators i'm talking about turning signals. Left and right.

Chris

glcaines
12-16-2009, 20:27
Welcome to Steel Soldiers.

CCKWs have been powered by 228, 248, 256, 270 and 302 CID gassers in the U.S. military. This doesn't mean that other countries haven't put diesels in them - I would wager that many gassers have been replaced by diesels over the years. There were a lot of CCKWs produced.

emr
12-16-2009, 21:12
They have No go's , and only one tail light, sure u can wire em up for directionals and put another red rear light where the black out one is, that is the most popular thing to do , I kept my 352 all original for the years i drove her, and I LOVED her and still do, Thank You for the explaination, I appreciate that, I will use that term now because I think its cool, hope u do not mind. I had a sign made i hung on the tail gate when traveling, it said, " ANTIQUE VEHICLE ...first line...ONLY ONE TAIL LIGHT...second line...WATCH FOR HAND SIGNALS...third line, I thought it was polite to let those who do not understand such things a chance to be careful...as an antique registered vehicle it was allowed to stay original.in NJ and all states I belive but am guessing, But that is the states...hope this helps...the cckw's had 270's gmc motors very popular and easy to work on and get parts for, NAPA here has complete rebuild kits for the engines, I had a head gasket blow and the water poured out the exhast but it still ran fine, great motors...Many repower anything, it all depends on your ability or wallet, it is a great truck but the rest of the drive train and brakes are not ready for all that extra speed and power. She is built to handle what shes got, hope this helped, i spent about 35000 miles in her, but went to bigger M series trucks, That is one sweet truck U have...all the best..Randy

paulfarber
12-17-2009, 19:34
Vintage Wiring of Maine makes full CCKW harnesses and for an extra $150 they add in wires for dual tail light... they could easily add in wires for directionals.

But a new harness is over $900.. would be more with the extra wires.

Look at the European CCKWs they all seem to have turn signals.

guido
12-21-2009, 21:11
ok thanks guys gives me something to work on in the new year now. I'm in the process of getting a new tray made to the same spec. My brothers are boiler makers by trade which will help me. Found that there is one diesel and looking at dropping one in if i can get one.

Chris

guido
12-23-2009, 00:45
Just another one of those annoying question whats the max tonnage that one of these babies can pull? US tons?

Chris

emr
12-23-2009, 09:24
Look up Mil Spec restorations in the Military Vehicle mag, and ask for Bob Rubino, He is the owner, and i am sure there are other expertse out there, I feel Bob is the man who can answer Every question U will ever have on these trucks, and it will be correct, no guessing, it is worth looking Him up, He buys over by u also at times, and brings em back to the U.S. Like i mentioned above, these are not the most heavy duty trucks in the world, with a diesel u will be able to do more than the rest of the truck will ever do, But i can see the worthyness of it, and why not, it sure would be cool, guys have stuck diesels in so many trucks Bob will know others who have also, all the best...Oh ...my "guess " in tow tonnage is 5 tons, that is a guess on my part, I do not think the cckw's are rated like M series trucks, i do not belive they double load on dry road, and there fore most vehicles can tow as a rule of thumb from the old school 2 times what they can carry... as a safe rule that is, of course they can pull more...:wink:...randy

paulfarber
12-30-2009, 00:38
The CCKW is rated by the manufacturer for 5,000.

Now there is a catch. The Specifications of the CCKW are for OFF ROAD/Cross Country. The War Dept in 1944 increased the allowable payload on HARD SURFACED road to a max payload is 10,000.

You will also need to increase tire pressure 1 PSI for each 1,000lbs over 5,000.

I have posted the info on my CCKW web site:

tm9-801.com • View topic - A CCKW can hold 10,000... you knew that, right? (http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=288)

This overload rating also applies to M35s. Off Road/Cross Country the max payload is 5,000, but on hard surfaced roads 10,000 payload.

Depending on the condition of your truck you may not want to attempt 10,000. But I have seen it.. a 353 loaded to 10,000 at Army Cars USA in WI. Its scary looking, drives like crap, but it will hold it quite well.

As far as 'expert' CCKW owners beware... I have spent the last 4 years correcting them.... make sure that every bit of advice is documented, not an old wives tale, or simply made up.

captain-crank
12-31-2009, 08:17
The CCKW is rated by the manufacturer for 5,000.

Now there is a catch. The Specifications of the CCKW are for OFF ROAD/Cross Country. The War Dept in 1944 increased the allowable payload on HARD SURFACED road to a max payload is 10,000.

You will also need to increase tire pressure 1 PSI for each 1,000lbs over 5,000.

I have posted the info on my CCKW web site:

tm9-801.com • View topic - A CCKW can hold 10,000... you knew that, right? (http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=288)

This overload rating also applies to M35s. Off Road/Cross Country the max payload is 5,000, but on hard surfaced roads 10,000 payload.

Depending on the condition of your truck you may not want to attempt 10,000. But I have seen it.. a 353 loaded to 10,000 at Army Cars USA in WI. Its scary looking, drives like crap, but it will hold it quite well.

As far as 'expert' CCKW owners beware... I have spent the last 4 years correcting them.... make sure that every bit of advice is documented, not an old wives tale, or simply made up.


Farby,

You are OFF TOPIC, his question was for towed load.

And....

The cargo information you are incorrectly spewing refers to combat conditions, 65 years ago.

Under no circumstances should you ever try to haul 5 ton in a CCKW on a public highway.

And no, I'm not an expert. I'm just sensible.

I see you are now also an M series authority . Gonna start your own self serving web sight on that too?

paulfarber
01-02-2010, 19:33
Call Kevin Krunland in WI and ask him I saw it with my own eyes and posted the reference. The M35 is the same way... 2.5 tons is the spec for OFF ROAD, but can do 5 ton on an hard surfaced road.

Sorry if I have information that you may not know about.... but facts is facts.

And this is the CCKW forum.. where do you get M series expert?

As for off topic the question was asked:

"Just another one of those annoying question whats the max tonnage that one of these babies can pull? US tons?

Chris "

The amount a vehicle can pull to me means 'carry'. If you mean the literal towed load, then if you read the WDCs that I posted that is also covered.

If you have information to the contrary then please post. I find it laughable that you are questioning an official War Dept Circular (two of them in fact) that clearly states they are rated for 5 tons on hard surfaced roads.

Would I put 5 tons in my cckw? No, it is not legal for a historical plated and insured vehicle to carry a load in PA. If it was would I? In flat as a pancake FL sure... in the Appalachian Mts of PA heck no.

Stop being a mother hen and admit that the loads I posted are correct Army specs for the CCKW.

tm america
01-02-2010, 20:00
wow wheres the popcorn:roll:

SasquatchSanta
01-02-2010, 21:09
Earth Calling paulfarber ......

When the war department issued/approved the CCKW for 10,000 pounds on hard surfaced roads the national speed limit was 45 MPH!

I hate to tell you this sir but it's not always what a person says but how they say it and and the "Pimp Slap" attitude that you conveyed on the forum that you supplied the link to will wear real thin real quick here --- you're already starting to annoy the **** out of me and I don't even own a CCKW.

emr
01-02-2010, 21:21
I am with SasquatchSanta on this as i am alot. If I pull something i am towing it for one, no need to get in a dither over such a silly thing, I am no expert, But i do know a few, And mr Krunlund, is one for sure, But I would not throw His name around just because U saw an over loaded truck on His land, U may have or may not have more miles in a cckw than me, i sure hope u do, But in No way is that truck anywhere near what an M35 can carry and is just plain dangerous to double the 2.5 off road load rating, like i said earlier, it is my guess and understanding that it may very well be the cckw's were not manufactured with this double hard road rating, u have not shown any facts for this other than your opinion...You really just need to show the publications that show this to be true, i have the understanding that this was an m series trait , i may be corrected and would sure like to be, but we will need more facts, i am stating an opinion from practical experience, i am not saying I have documented proof because i do not, And i thnk u may not either, if u do please i am always interested in learnig more about these awesome, trucks, in fact i bet i have it somewhere, i will start looking...Oh an article will not cut it for me.....Hey TM its like u and me with tires...LOL...all in fun ...Randy...oh and in a truck this old it is important to show what the manufacturer set load ratings were in design compared to what the Military said could be done years later in theater conditions, that could very well lead some one to disaster on the road way in todays climate, i think on this site we just want all the info we can get...Randy out again...

tm america
01-02-2010, 21:34
ya but i didnt come at you like that i just wanted you to play follow the leader which is fun for everyone :-D

tm america
01-02-2010, 21:39
i'm with emr and ss on this better than you attitudes dont help anyone .hard facts and pics,tm, spec sheets and overall common sence reasoning go a long way. i dont remember seeing a list of people that are the know it all of the mv world so .please back up statements with facts .especially when things sound a little far fetched.just saying you know more than someone shows nothing and helps noone.we are all here to help eachother and maybe learn some new things along the way

emr
01-02-2010, 21:43
ya but i didnt come at you like that i just wanted you to play follow the leader which is fun for everyone :-D


U got a super sweet and better set up,I would love to have your rubber i would trade my 1100 michelins in a heart beat.............................................. ..:-D.. But ...i just love NDTs...:-D thanks for the nice reply...:wink:

tm america
01-02-2010, 21:54
i want some ndts to as long as they come with some new green:roll:maybe a gama goat or mule or........ oh sorry now i'm making wishes for next christmas:-Di thought the cckw was a much smaller truck than the m35 or m211 and had lower ratings . since they had less gear ratio and only had half the power and torque of the m35. i find it hard to picture a cckw hauling the same weight or towing the same weight as a m35

SasquatchSanta
01-02-2010, 22:41
i want some ndts to as long as they come with some new green:roll:maybe a gama goat or mule or........ oh sorry now i'm making wishes for next christmas:-D

No problem. I'm starting my list early this year.
HoHoHo

paulfarber
01-03-2010, 09:50
All in all the CCKW and M35/M135/M211 are very similar trucks. The size, load and speeds are all withing a few % of each other. A CCKW can definitely go faster than 45MPH and haul more than 5,000lbs.

The technology on the CCKW is no more 'ancient' or outdated that that used on an M35. Leather seals are great at the job they do.. ditto for the felt used. They do not last as long, but every part on a truck has a set lifetime. I don't see the maintenance needs of a CCKW being much more than of any other 2.5 Ton truck in military service.

Compared to commercial vehicles they are very time intensive, but commercial vehicles don't lead the same life as a military one.

If anyone has anything to contradict what I have said, I would be interested in reading it.

And if you read through the previous posts I was not the one who cast the first insult.. in fact I have yet to cast a disparaging remark. If the posting of facts makes you sad, then have some kleenex ready... you will need them.

emr
01-03-2010, 10:59
I have a few thoughts, since i have driven a 352 for quit a few years and about 30,000 miles in all weather and mud and snow conditions and also the m 35, And i have the experience to talk about side by side driving in a week of 25inchs of snow also, The trucks are not as nearly the same as u say, not by a long shot, There is an MTA guy who always says, gee i thought the cckws were as tough as an M35, no way no how, not even close in actuall load carring abilitys, It really only takes a look to see this, But i have the experience in both to say they are not the same truck, U mention they can carry more than 5000 #s. that sure is true, but they are quickly over loaded after thet, An M35 is an extremly hard truck to over load in its class, in fact it is amazing to me they are rated in the same class they are so totaly different trucks and extremly different abilitys, As running thru snow drifts and the storm was reaching the 25 inch level, I always run tops off in this stuff ,...we started out in the cckw, i absolutly LOVE that truck, the truck is amazing for sure, i would never say anything bad against them they are awesome, But when we started to bog du to lack of ground clearence, then power , we went and grabbed an M 35, like going from Fred Flinstone s car to the George Jetzons space car, thru everything like it was warm butter, I have towbarred deuces for many miles breaking the thousand mile mark for sure, and a 5 ton behind my M35 for way more than a hundred, this is quit a test of a trucks ability, the M 35 was up to the task and then some, as for towbarring with the cckw, it was behind my M 35 many many times i am known for bring ing multi vehicles where i go, with one driver. me, But to the facts a cckw will sure tow another cckw, but if anyone were crazy enough to put an M 35 behind it they would then realize they are 2 TOTALY different trucks, And like i said, I need proof the Maufacture built them to be rated double for a highway load, But this can not be done because it was not done, and Like I said telling some one they can put 10,000 #s in a cckw because the Military said in theater it is ok, is dangerous and shows a lack of experience in my eyes, I speak from actuall performance here, not an article, Just an FYI, And your Kleenex remark is just who u are i guess, U do not see the rudness of it and thats fine with me I sure can take and and do not mind trading in it, ..Randy

paulfarber
01-03-2010, 18:37
I have no idea what you said after the first dozen words... PARAGRAPHS USE THEM :)

I never said that they are THE SAME, I said they are comparable. The diesel engine is a great asset... but not required to get the job done.

If your little snow story is what makes you think that the M35 is better, great. But CCKWs made the ALCAN highway, served in the mountains of Borneo, the monsoons of the tropics and the heat/sand of the desert. Everywhere you can put an M35 you can put a CCKW 60+ years in the past. Any truck can get stuck, in mud/snow/sand.. so what?

So what has an M35 done that a CCKW hasn't????

What is so dangerous about using a CCKW to its rated capacity? I have personally driven 7,000+ lbs to the dump (it was about 4 years ago when I remodeled my house... took out all the old plaster/lathing.. that stuff can soak up the water. It drove like a turd (this is in Gordon/Shenandoah.. and yes I did have historical plates on it) and there are several killer hills on the way. I did not break down, or kill any small children, nor bend the frame, nor have the lock rings pop off, the brakes didn't fail and the motor did't lose any parts. It was a huge non-event.

guido
01-03-2010, 19:04
I'm chasing the information from manuals not army logs or letters. I need the information for registration purposes. I'm registering my CCKW as an open registered truck. Tare and things like that i can get from my local weigh bridge, but total loads are useful but the big one is the towing or pintle capacity.

Chris

emr
01-03-2010, 21:51
My friend U are a card for sure. And alot of hot air. U have stated u know it all, basically you know it all and have facts, U have gone from facts to your little 7 ton story that was probably a dream U had one night. Sure i believe a cckw can haul 7 tons, but in no way were u safe on a road of today, in your mind I can certainly see U think U are. Horses could have and would have made the Alcan highway . I guess these are the facts you mention U have ...all in your mind, ...:roll:...
You ask what has an M35 done that a cckw has not, How about withstood the test of time in active service for 50 years and counting. Your Jimmy is a hobby truck, An M35 is a real truck. period...I think u should hook up your jimmy to an M 35 and give it the tug test, Im sure someone with a gasser would get a kick out of dragging U down town...I asked for facts from the self proclaimed expert and got a cute story, That says it all to me my friend.
The last time I heard of a guy who knew it all was just like U alot of hot air, U sure do like to read your cute comments I am sure, it say volumes about who u are...All the best...Randy

NDT
01-03-2010, 23:03
Uh, 1 ton = 2000 lbs last time I checked. emr and others, how did this turn into a CCKW vs G742 thread? Both are kick butt 6x6's. Paul is correct, CCKW's were authorized huge overloads on the Red Ball Express and other supply lines during WWII. After the war, here in the US, the surplus Jimmies formed the backbone of the US OTR trucking fleet until the majors could resume civi production. They would carry loads so great the trunnions would crack and wheel bearings would crystallize. After that, the Jimmies then moved into the woods and did the nasty off road work until the gas Reos started to get surplused in the 1960's.

The two trucks are just from different eras, but they both work HARD! A WWII vet swore to me once he carried a Stuart tank in a CCKW, that's 30,000 lbs (15 tons). I did not doubt him.

tm america
01-03-2010, 23:32
i'm still waiting for all this knowledge to be shown in the form of a tm or something of that matter .cuz what was told by one to be true means little when you get pulled over and towed for being over loaded with no way to prove your case..for someone who claims so much knowledge to not know they would have to come through with the documents to prove what they say to be true shows limited knowledge to me and opinions not facts.i have seen no printed documents to show what the hp-torque of the cckws were .what the weight ratings were and most importantly what the towed capacity was for these trucks since that is what the question in this thread was?
here's a paragraph for you so you dont get distracted patting yourself on the back.i am no expert on these trucks i would like to learn more but i want to see the hard facts not the opinions of a self proclaimed know it all .but i guess we are to know that what you say is truth by the 100 posts you have entered:roll:

paulfarber
01-04-2010, 12:23
Well, if you want to learn about the CCKW then ask questions. I do not know it all, I never said that I did. Maybe I am a quick learner, maybe I have more free time/money to research, maybe my OCD for CCKW trivia is more of a curse than a blessing but if you read the posts they are hard facts straight from TMs, WDCs, or GM pubs.

For the guy who needs registration info get it off the data plates.

The TM9-801 which lists model specs is a free PDF download from:

www.tm9-801.com TM9-801 Truck 2 1/2 TON 6x6 GMC CCKW-352 & 353 (http://www.tm9-801.com/tm9-801/index.php)

Its the exact same pdf that sells on e-bay.

Its the last TM9 for the CCKW and should have everything you need unless you have a shop van THen you will need the ST-5/6 TMs and I know a source for them also.

For the CCKW owners... this week I am breaking down a rear bogey for parts. If you have any tips for getting the torque rods off let me know..I don't have the special tool but may have to make one unless there is another way.

swordmd
01-04-2010, 12:49
The true work horses of the ALCAN highway the 1 1/2 ton chevy and the Stude US6 . The M35 M211/135 have air for trailer brakes the CCKW does not, Very important if you tow. Read your tm's always keep one in your truck. You need not atack someone for not having alot of posts.

tm america
01-04-2010, 14:36
only for claiming they have more knowledge then someone else without being able to show anything on paper that backs up what they say.good point about the air for trailer brakes. and also to point out the m35a2 can run on pretty much anything that is flamable .which is something that i would like to see you try with a cckw.i dont know how a quick learner or someone that can read would have missed those facts as to things the m35 can do that the cckw cant :roll:

paulfarber
01-05-2010, 00:44
The M35 has a multifuel engine.. so what, it has the same cargo capacity as a CCKW. The type of fuel is obvious, as I stated the CCKW is a gas engine.

The M35 can tow much more (3x) than a CCKW, there were electric braked trailers and a controller for the CCKW.

A 352 was an artillery prime mover, not a lot of field guns had brakes (other than hand) and the most common trailer (the Ben Hur) was just under 4k loaded.... not a huge trailed load for an 11,000+ vehicle. The 353 was a cargo hauler used as THE cargo hauler.

Try not to make this about me... I know what I know and unless you have something that can remotely be considered proof, reference, or not made up then please share.

The CCKW and M35 are comparable tucks. Its a valid statement. You cannot directly compare a 60+ year old truck's technology to a 30+ year old truck's technology, of course they were different... but the mission and the capabilities were (are) the same.

Look at the dimensions, cargo, cab, driveline. What is the M35A2 doing that the CCKW is not? I will admit towed loads are much better, but thats only due to the diesels power. Heck even the gun mount is very similar.

emr
01-05-2010, 08:25
I just disagree, They did have the same mission for sure, but in no way are compatible in towing or hauling, I just wanted to joust a little because i thought U were, Surely only in fun . We all have opinions about our trucks, and I am an absolute cckw lover. I really do not think they were close when the M 35s were gassers either. That 270 is a pea shooter.The trans and drive train are so strong in an m 35 ... those axles look like my grandmas at 85...:-D...An M 35s is so over built is crazy, a cckw is over built for its day for sure, before a cckw horses were better than most trucks. They were the superior truck in the world, next to a International ....:-D

DUG
01-05-2010, 12:17
So what has an M35 done that a CCKW hasn't????



Parked in my driveway.

:)




Disclaimer - joke placed above.....................................

tm america
01-05-2010, 14:57
ya i'm done beating up on you to since you have back tracked what you said and are contradicting yourself .earlier you said they could pull 10000lbs .now you say the m35 can pull three times as much. the m35 was rated to pull 10000lbs on hard ground and 6000lbs cross country .i'm no expert on these trucks i think they are really cool older trucks and have a place in mv heaven.i also think misinformation can be deadly or costly. when you come out calling yourself an expert and making claims that are far fetched .that involves everyone that reads this post.if some person were to hook 10000lbs behind their cckw and have a bad accident .it would look bad for everyone driving a mv.the frames brakes engine trans and axles and trailer brake system on these trucks is built for way less load then the m35 which is rated for 10000lbs tow capacity.

i could pull a train with my m35 and it has been done but that doesnt mean i should tell people it's ok to do it on the street where there are families riding in their mini vans not having any idea what is coming at them.:roll:. i would go with what rating is in the tm and been safe and legal about it .also these are 60yr old trucks and you need to use caution towing with vehicles that are old .they were built for low speeds when there wasnt traffic and high speed limits like there are now.those truck are better compared to a 1 ton truck of today rather than a m35 :-Dhappy new year to all

captain-crank
01-05-2010, 23:10
:cool:

tm america
01-05-2010, 23:53
nice do they have one with a cckw hangin from the tongue of a m105 beggin for mercy:roll:

paulfarber
01-06-2010, 02:56
ya i'm done beating up on you to since you have back tracked what you said and are contradicting yourself .earlier you said they could pull 10000lbs .now you say the m35 can pull three times as much. the m35 was rated to pull 10000lbs on hard ground and 6000lbs cross country .i'm no expert on these trucks i think they are really cool older trucks and have a place in mv heaven.i also think misinformation can be deadly or costly. when you come out calling yourself an expert and making claims that are far fetched .that involves everyone that reads this post.if some person were to hook 10000lbs behind their cckw and have a bad accident .it would look bad for everyone driving a mv.the frames brakes engine trans and axles and trailer brake system on these trucks is built for way less load then the m35 which is rated for 10000lbs tow capacity.

i could pull a train with my m35 and it has been done but that doesnt mean i should tell people it's ok to do it on the street where there are families riding in their mini vans not having any idea what is coming at them.:roll:. i would go with what rating is in the tm and been safe and legal about it .also these are 60yr old trucks and you need to use caution towing with vehicles that are old .they were built for low speeds when there wasnt traffic and high speed limits like there are now.those truck are better compared to a 1 ton truck of today rather than a m35 :-Dhappy new year to all

You have given up because you have nothing to contribute. I CLEARLY stated that I understood 'pull' to mean 'carry' and provided the clarification and the official documentation for it.

If you have to hang your hopes on such an innocuous misunderstanding then its obvious that you have nothing to contribute but weak attacks.

This was never about what YOU or I could, would or should do with a CCKW, it was about OFFICIAL PUBLISHED SPECS for the truck, which I provided a link, date, and circular number for.

You have not provided anything other than your opinion, which you are entitled to do... but that not in an TM or WDC.

If you are so enlightened, what IS the max towed load for a CCKW? What pub can I find it and what was the date? Was there ever an authorized 'overloading' for trailers? What limits were placed on CCKWs when towing a trailer?

Its your time to shine.... put up some knowledge and lets see if its right.