ethanol gas additive and the mule

Has anyone experienced any adverse effects on the mule fuel system from the ethanol in gasoline?

I thought these were ment to run on mogas 82-78 octene? ethanol might dry out some gaskets.

If you don't like the ethanol in your gasoline, you can wash it out with water.

Seriously. If you add a cup of water to a gallon of gasoline, and shake it up,
the ethanol and water will all drop to the bottom of the can, and you can
separate it out.

If someone was really determined, they could make a washing filter
where they squirted the gasoline into the bottom of a pot of water, and
drew the clean gasoline off of the top of the pot.

-Chuck

havent.. but i wounder if the seats are hardened for no lead gas?

I know the Ethanol gas is wreaking havok on the gas genny's.......

some places in SC still sell gas ethanol free!!!

Ferroequinologist said:

some places in SC still sell gas ethanol free!!!

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You sure about that?

It is a federal requirement that all gasoline contain 10% ethanol. And, it is also a federal law that gas stations no longer have to label gasoline as containing ethanol.

But fear not, you can easily remove the ethanol by washing it out with water.

-Chuck

Yes I would be more concerned about the lack of lead than I would about the addition of ethanol.

stumps said:

You sure about that?

It is a federal requirement that all gasoline contain 10% ethanol. And, it is also a federal law that gas stations no longer have to label gasoline as containing ethanol.

But fear not, you can easily remove the ethanol by washing it out with water.

-Chuck

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It is not. It is a federal requirement that a certain amount of total ethanol be mixed with the total gasoline supply, but the percentage in different locations can be varied according to need, etc.

If your engine can tolerate the high-octane, 100 LL aviation fuel does not have any ethanol added and is loaded with tetra ethyl lead. I forgot to mention, you also need to be able to tolerate the higher cost. The last I bought was $4.67 a gallon, but I've seen it over $6.00.

frodobaggins said:

It is not. It is a federal requirement that a certain amount of total ethanol be mixed with the total gasoline supply, but the percentage in different locations can be varied according to need, etc.

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Some time back, the EPA mandated that 10% MTBE/ETBE be added to gasoline year round to oxygenate the gasoline. In 2005, EPA adjusted the mandate to allow up to 10% ethanol be substituted for MTBE/ETBE in the fuel.

-Chuck

stumps said:

Some time back, the EPA mandated that 10% MTBE/ETBE be added to gasoline year round to oxygenate the gasoline. In 2005, EPA adjusted the mandate to allow up to 10% ethanol be substituted for MTBE/ETBE in the fuel.

-Chuck

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Key words are "up to".

frodobaggins said:

Key words are "up to".

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The key concept is 10% of all automotive gasoline sold in the US must be comprised of one or more of the following: Ethanol, MTBE, or ETBE.

Due to legislation in 2005, EPA allowed the substitution of ethanol for the MTBE/ETBE oxygenation component. They also eliminated the requirement for marking the pumps with information about the ethanol/MTBE/ETBE content.

-Chuck

PFC W told me that they use aviation gasoline in all the vehicles in the museum, he says it does not break down during long term storage. Somebody posted on the G503 that ethanol will attract water over a period of time....that's the last thing we need in vehicles that don't burn a tank of gas a year.

Charlie said:

PFC W told me that they use aviation gasoline in all the vehicles in the museum, he says it does not break down during long term storage. Somebody posted on the G503 that ethanol will attract water over a period of time....that's the last thing we need in vehicles that don't burn a tank of gas a year.

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Gasoline won't attract water, and is not affected by water in the least, so if you are worried about the ethanol attracting water (and you should be), wash it out of the gasoline before you put it in your antique vehicle/generator/mower...

I had a terrible problem with one of my mowers. The tank was vented, and so was the carburettor float bowl. With fresh gasoline it would start just fine, but if I left it to sit for a couple of weeks, it was dead... nothing. I could pull the cord until I was blue in the face, and it would not start. So, I would take off the float bowl, and find water in the bottom...just where it drew gasoline for the idle jets. Dump the water, and put in fresh gasoline, and it would start first pull.

Here is something for you to try next summer: Take a small shallow pan, and pour a 1/4 cup of gasoline into the pan, and then let it set for 10-15 minutes. Almost immediately, you will see the gasoline turn hazy from the moisture it is sucking out of the air. Soon, you will see brown droplets of water form on the bottom of the pan. That is what happens when the ethanol and MTBE/ETBE that they add to the gasoline picks up moisture from the air. It will not burn unless it is totally dry.

My solution is to wash the gasoline before I put it in the mower. I took a gallon glass jug, and poured a cup full of water in the jug, and gave it a shake. After the water settled to the bottom, I poured the gasoline that was on top back into the gas can. No more problems.

-Chuck

Charlie said:

PFC W told me that they use aviation gasoline in all the vehicles in the museum, he says it does not break down during long term storage. Somebody posted on the G503 that ethanol will attract water over a period of time....that's the last thing we need in vehicles that don't burn a tank of gas a year.

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That's one of the reasons that aviation fuel doesn't have ethanol added -- corrosiion. There is currently a lot of research going on regarding putting ethanol in avgas. They really want to get rid of 100 LL with the TEL.

I run av gas 100LL in a Mule, 72 M151 and 66 E type- yes the price at a local fuel dump {they stock it for the air boat guys using avn engines} is around $4.70 gal but after replacing three fuel pumps in each of the above, and considering the little I run the vehicles- it a no brainer.
Another thing is 100LL doesn't go bad after a few months. In fact, I never heard of any aircraft owner ever having a problem leaving it for very long time in the tanks.

I have never had a proble, with the new gas in generators or my mule or m 38, I do use super though, as for many people will say alot of opinions, the basic principle is true, the farther up the cracking tower the less crap in the fuel, not dirt , but impuritys, super is obviously above the other 2 gasoline ratings and is a much cleaner fuel,yes it is... it burns cleaner and lasts longer because it has less impuritys in it period, I have never had a problem, with multiple sea doos boats jeeps that sit for a season with super in em, generators and compressors either, and for 30 yeards I have used those, these are facts. U will hear some say a lower octane fuel burns better and is better, they must also believe cold water boils faster than hot, just sayin, use super, things start better and run longer and less deposits in the engine. simple but very true. Aviation fuel is good for those who have a source and think its better, but it is not needed in these or any of the engines we use.....Oh if U want any engine to run when U want it to, U must start it now and again on a maintenence schedule, and keeping fuel full is important for alot of reasons, mostly moisture....randy

emr said:

I have never had a proble, with the new gas in generators or my mule or m 38, I do use super though, as for many people will say alot of opinions, the basic principle is true, the farther up the cracking tower the less crap in the fuel, nit dirt , but impuritys, super is obviously above the other 2 gasoline ratings and is a much cleaner fuel, it burns cleaner and lasts longer because it has less impuritys in it period, I have never had a proble, with multiple sea doos boats jeeps that sit for a season with super in em, gerators and compressors either, and for 30 yeards I have used those, these are facts. U willhear some say a lower octane fuel burns better and is better, they must also belive cold water boils faster than hot, just sayin, use super things start better and run longer and less deposits in the engine. simple but very true.

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Super comes from exactly the same point in the cracking tower as regular. It is additives that make the octane difference, nothing more. The mid grade is a mix, made at the pump, of super and regular.

-Chuck

stumps said:

Super comes from exactly the same point in the cracking tower as regular. It is additives that make the octane difference, nothing more. The mid grade is a mix, made at the pump, of super and regular.

-Chuck

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Chuck, you are absolutely correct. The only difference is the additives,which you mentioned, which causes the burning rate to slow. Which is why high octane fuel in an engine designed for lower octane can cause the valves to overheat.