What makes the engine "Multifuel" & WMO in a cucv?

Howdy yall, I am a pizza delivery driver for Papa Johns (Used to be domino's, need to change the avatar) and I have thought for a long time that a CUCV would be epic for pizza delivery. Now, originally I figured I would run veggie oil or bio diesel (still not 100% sure the difference) but now I have been lurking on the Deuce forums and seen the stuff about running WMO. This is a new concept to me, and I found myself thinking about how cool it would be to do this. I also enjoyed the idea of running a deuce and a half for pizza delivery!

Now, after a good search of google, I found a forum where some guys were talking about running WMO in their Dodge Rams. Last I checked, Dodge didnt do a multifuel engine. This has led me to ask if this can be done in a dodge, could it be done in a Cucv?

I see some advantages and disadvantages, the cucv probably has smaller injectors which will get plugged easier, and was not built as ruggedly as the multifuel engines. However! I have seen a post where the guy was running WMO in his deuce and the soot in the turbo it was no longer running correctly. In a cucv, there is no turbo, and this couldn't be a problem!

Please share insight. I figure I would have a problem finding enough WVO or WMO to fuel the CUCV on these alone, but I could run a 50% diesel mix. This, from what I understand, would lessen the difficulty of cold starts,

And yes, I understand that all of this would be wholly, completely less efficient than going and getting a Honda or a metro, but this kind of stuff would be more fun and I like to be different.

-Why would a Duece be less able to run WMO than a Cucv?

My basic plan for the CUCV to run any alternative fuels would be based around the idea of not lessening reliability, if my truck was to fail me during a shift, I can loose standing with the boss. I have to know that it will start, every time.

-I would need a filteration system that is capable of removing contaminates and water from the waste oil, (WVO or WMO).
-I would need a second fuel tank with a tank heater. I have seen and really liked the auxiliary tanks that sit like a tool box in the bed of the truck, I think of these would be PERFECT for this plan.
-Two fuel pumps would be a MUST.

My problematic thought, would such a filtration device be able to be carried to filter oils from the waist receptacle, directly into the fuel tank? Or would this take just entirely too long? What could one use to transport the waist oil in?

At what temperature would 50%WVO 50%Diesel solidify to the point that it could not be pumped correctly anymore? Would heated lines become no longer necessary, so long as the tank was heated?

I know, lots of questions, I love to learn! I cant wait to start playing with this

My cucv auction ends on Thursday!

The deuce has a specially designed engine to burn a multitude of petroleum products. The fuel squirts onto the engine as a liquid. I think the CUCV's have their diesel injected as a mist. I am not totally sure. Both will cost you quite a bit in fuel if you drive them alot.

Flyingvan911 said:

The deuce has a specially designed engine to burn a multitude of petroleum products. The fuel squirts onto the engine as a liquid. I think the CUCV's have their diesel injected as a mist. I am not totally sure. Both will cost you quite a bit in fuel if you drive them alot.

Click to expand...

Even on pump diesel, the cucv will cost less than my C20 to fuel, so I cant lose!

I know a few people that run 50%WMO in their CUCV's and heard of one that ran 100% WMO in his M1008 (grabbed the wrong can) it made it home on used motor oil.

Now if I order a pizza I want it fast & hot........
Deuces & CUCV's aren't very fast. but are very Cool.

8 to 10mpg isn't very profitable on pizza delivery pay.

Deuce multi-fuelers have a special compensator that allows various flammable substainces to be used as fuel. Most diesel engines are capable of running fryer type oils if converted to biodiesel. Basically the process includes addition of lye and methanol to the oil. The process isn't too hard providing you have the right equipment. The right equipment is going to cost some money however. Biodiesel also gells at a much higher temperature than regular diesel and requires a special (and expensive) additive once temperatures drop below 50 degrees F. The guy that delivered my pizza tonight was quite impressed with my bobber out front. I'd be quite impressed with the delivery guy that drives a deuce!

The multifuel engine is a very interesting contraption. It was originally designed by the famous diesel engine company MAN as the MAN Hypercycle Engine, also known as the Whisper Diesel. MAN engineers were attempting to design a compression-ignition (C-I) engine that burned the fuel slowly, and didn't need massive engine parts to withstand the instantaneous ignition found in a conventional C-I engine.

In a conventional C-I engine, the fuel is atomized into a combustion chamber filled with superheated air, and ignites instantly. This results in the very loud "knocking" sound that is characteristic of most C-I diesel engines. Because the entire fuel charge ignites instantly, there are tremendous forces placed on the pistons, rods, bearings, heads, etc.. The usual engineering answer to the need to withstand such forces is to add lots of mass to the parts. That is why conventional diesels run so slowly, and are so big and heavy.

In the MAN cycle engine, the engineers took a different approach. They formed a chamber in the top of the piston that looks much like someone stuck their thumb into a clay piston. When the piston reaches top-dead-center (TDC), the piston's chamber, and the cylinder head, form a closed combustion chamber, with the injector nozzle poking into the top from one side.

The injector nozzle on a MAN Hypercycle engine is different from that used in the usual C-I engine. The nozzle has relatively large holes in it that pass the fuel as a stream, rather than a mist. This stream of fuel doesn't ignite instantly, but rather passes through the super heated air, and sprays onto the walls and bottom of the piston's combustion chamber. The fuel puddled in the bottom of the combustion chamber boils and vaporizes. When the vapors reach the super heated air, they ignite and burn in a relatively slow controlled fashion. The piston's small combustion chamber also keeps liquid fuel away from the cylinder walls, and out of the crankcase.

The LDx-465 engines all have a Fuel Density Compensator (FDC), but that is not what makes a Multi-Fuel engine multi fuel. Hydrocarbon fuels contain differing amounts of energy depending on their chemical characteristics. As a general rule, thinner fuels, such as gasoline, have fewer calories per pound than do thicker fuels such as diesel oil, and waste motor oil. The FDC increases the amount of fuel pumped into the cylinders for thin fuels, and reduces the amount of fuel pumped into the cylinders for thick fuels. It does this by moving the pedal stop, and thus reducing, or increasing how far you can push the pedal based on the thickness of the fuel. A MF engine without the FDC is still multi-fuel, only it will produce less horsepower on gasoline than it will on diesel fuel... much less.... or in terms of smoke, if it is set to smoke on gasoline, it will smoke chunks on diesel, and if it is set to smoke on diesel, it won't be able to get out of its own way when burning gasoline...


-Chuck

Really? Now that is the cool explanation of our Multifuel engines.

Thats probably one of the best/most simple descriptions I've heard about the multi yet, nice job Stumps.

Now stumps let the genie out of the bottle.

Look Domino.don't mean to burn your pizza but the idea of rolling a 13000lb hunk of very large iron folling down suburban streets to deliver a pound or so of bread and tomatoe sauce is about as ineffecient as you can get.

Tires wear quickly.......maintanance costs are high in either money or time and the neighborhood whiners may complain about the noise..........kinda bad for business don't ya think?

Crawl in and out of that thing a few dozen times a shift and you will certainly build some leg muscles and the steering will increase your upper body strength turning in those suburban neighborhoods but IMO............stick with the little cars for pizza delivery.

for a silly post, it sure got upgraded with the Hypercycle process explained very very well, I have printed the facts and post it in front of my truck to explain this at displays and shows, it is worth printing stumps explenation if he does not mind word for word, it sure clears it up, we all had learn it some time, i will ad that there is no detonation knock because it is just so darn efficient also.....No disrespect intended , but i could see all the phone calls, ""WHERES MY PIZZA""" and the deuce lumbering around town, NOT an around town truck at all, XM U hit it right on,

Almost forgot Domino. Economics is not in your favor either. I have made biodiesel and after ya get the equipment and a source for veggie oil the cost is around 50cents per gallon. Pay your fed and state fuel tax and you are out another 50 cents if you want to be legal. So figure a buck a gallon ............. 10 mpg is average 15mpg for some.

Now take your average 30mpg compact car and three buck fuel.............no fuss no muss no expense for bio equipment and no time makeing fuel. You have also eliminated the possibility of a methanol explosion.

Those trucks were designed to haul several tons over rugged terrain and unimproved roads while useing what amounts to fuel scavenged along the way if necessary............not pizzas unless you intend to throw 2.5 tons of pizza in the bed and travel thru a combat zone. Do ya deliver in Iraq or Afganistan?

I guess you could build a stone wood fired pizza oven in the bed, and become a rolling pizzeria? You'd be the hit of any HMV gathering.

Seriously, it would be better to find a car, any car, to do the delivery work. Deuces are great fun to drive when you are on the long and straight road. Add lots of stops and starts and sharp turns, and lots of rowing through the gears and deuce driving can get tiring pretty quickly.

As to my MAN Hypercycle description, you all are welcome to do with it what you will.

-Chuck

I have made bio and used in my duce but not in m CUCV yet.