need lots of advice on welders and welding

Hey guys, I've been working on fixing up my m1008 and have finished all the little rust holes and things that i could fix by sanding coating with a litle acid then either using bondo or it with fiberglass. however i have two generous rust holes in the corners of the firewall and it definately needs to be cut out and new metal put in.
My problem is i have neither a welder nor any experience with one. I'm really budget limited on a welder and wondering if i can do the weld without a mig since i would also need to purchase gas and what not. Any advice on what welder to use and some advice on sheetmetal repair?

any help appreciated

Welding is not an art you can pick up overnight.... It takes time and lots and lots of practice... There are lots of different varieties of welding machines out there, a mini mig, or reg mig welder would do the trick on low heat to prevent from burning holes in it.... My honest opinion would be to take it to a professional welding shop and let them look at it for you. They could prob patch those corners for a heck of a lot less money than it would be to buy a welder and learn how to use it

USAWEAPON777 said:

Hey guys, I've been working on fixing up my m1008 and have finished all the little rust holes and things that i could fix by sanding coating with a litle acid then either using bondo or it with fiberglass. however i have two generous rust holes in the corners of the firewall and it definately needs to be cut out and new metal put in.
My problem is i have neither a welder nor any experience with one. I'm really budget limited on a welder and wondering if i can do the weld without a mig since i would also need to purchase gas and what not. Any advice on what welder to use and some advice on sheetmetal repair?

any help appreciated

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i'm not a weld expert, but for most sheet metal applications any name branded mig machine will perform quite well.

Since you mentioned gas, you do know that there is a weld wire called flux core which creates a shield gas so that you don't require bottles.

My personal preference is to stay way from the Chinese and other machines sold by Harbor freight.

You can purchase a Miller, Hobart or Lincoln machine in the 140-150 amp range for around $500-650.

A smaller wleder like the Hobart 125 is around $375 or so. Also Esab gets fair reviews. A friend of mine uses one 8-10 hours a week fabricating wrought iron railings and window bar sets and he loves it.

MIG welding is pretty easy. Doing flat panel FCAW-MIG on thin sheet metal? Hire it out.

I disagree about the HF welders... they are pretty highly regarded for the basic/entry level items that they are. A little research will quickly weed out the simple 'I have chineese products' and then you'll discover they are quite good buys. They are not professional grade... but they will fuse metal. Even the TiG units are rated quite well.

Cut a patch then JB weld it from behind. I've filled quite a few small holes on my jeep that way.

I'm not an expert, I'm self-taught, but learned a lot in the past 20 years. Now I do quite well, and have built suspensions, modified and built custom frames, roll cages, trailer hitches, and a bit of body work. You CAN lean yourself, but it will take a lot of trial and error and patience. Get lots of scrap metal similar to what you will be working with and experiment.

For welders, there is a huge range of sizes and prices. I spent my first 5+ years using a small, 110v mig from Sears. It was a Sears name but made by Century. Its about the cheapest I would recommend for a usable welder. It was around $200 at the time.

For sheet metal you want gas. Shielded wire (flux-core) burns hotter and doesn't weld nearly as cleanly, so you want to avoid that for sheet metal. Use the smallest wire available, usually .023" and a low heat setting.

You can do a fair amount even with a little 110v mig, but the downside is that if you are doing heavier welding you will end up with a long duty cycle- you will weld a short distance and have to let it cool down for a while. That can end up damaging the welder after a while if you push it too hard. For a good 110v machine, look at some of the small Lincolns, like the sp100 or sp125. A little more money, but they will work well and last.

If you might end up welding more in the future...and trust me, once you have a welder you'll be welding everything...spend the money now for a slightly larger, 220v machine. For home welding projects I have the Lincoln SP175 Plus. That will weld everything from sheet metal to truck frames, but is still portable.

One piece of advice- use a GOOD power source. You can plug a small lincoln into a 15a circuit and do a little welding but it will be poor welds and the power will fluctuate. You also NEVER want to use an extension cord, unless its a large commercial one rated for the power. If you are in a bind, use some Romex and a couple plugs to make one- it will be much better than a light duty cord from WalMart. I shouldn't say this, but that's actually what I did for at home, since my only 220v outlet is in my basement.

Edit: Link to the one I use now. This is a good price, but it's probably more welder than you need to start out.
http://www.airgas.com/browse/productDetail.aspx?Category=231&product=LINK2300-1

And this is similar to my first welder. Boy have the prices gone up...for the price, I'd skip it and go name-brand now.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920569000P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=


Good luck.

Jim

My dad just got a welder from northern tool. It is a Hobart Handler 210. it's a small case but it has more than enough power. He wired the plug off the sub-panel in our garage. I don't have a ton of welding experience, especially with mig but i know some of the basics. I pulled it out and used it and it was very user friendly. even with flux core wire, it seemed make nice welds welds and was easy to control. Northern Tool has a package deal that comes with a Gas regulator and a spool gun for like 900 bucks.

FREE SHIPPING — Hobart Handler® 210 Wire Feed MIG Welder with 10-Ft. Spoolgun | Wirefeed Welders | Northern Tool + Equipment

for the stuff that you are doing you probably don't need much more than a good 110v mig but i would use gas. I have asked around and what it seams the general consenses on what gas to use for steel is the Mix gas that is part argon and part CO2. That is what my buddy uses and his welds are really nice.

Thanks for the replies.
Hogg: your definately right on the cost. However, i hope to be able to continue modifying my truck after the repairs and I enjoy working on them. I have lots of free time during the summer and am definately willing to learn a skill that seems to be very useful in a variety of fields.
Nonotagain: Yes i do know about using flux core. I have heard though around the web that it is very messy but does anyone know how much worse is flux core? I don't mind doing some more grinding and not having to deal with gas but like i said i have yet to use a welder so those who have i'd love your input on that.
Paul: I hadn't thought about JB its been a while since I last used it. It is great stuff. Though these holes in the firewall are quite large and I don't know if it would work.

and everyone else who posted thanks for the advice this is all helping me out a lot with understanding what I will need.

nhdiesel said:

If you are in a bind, use some Romex and a couple plugs to make one- it will be much better than a light duty cord from WalMart. I shouldn't say this, but that's actually what I did for at home, since my only 220v outlet is in my basement.



Good luck.

Jim

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If you live in an area where the National Electric Code is enforced that is a MAJOR code violation. not to mention a hazard.

I WOULD NOT use Romex to build a cord, that is not what it was intended for, in addition, most plug ends are made for stranded and not solid wire. they don't get enough surface area contact and tend to heat up at the connection points.
Buy the right cord or the right parts to make the right cord. no welding project is worth burning your house down.

having said that, I have two miller welders, one mig and one stick. the mig is great for the average fab work but when I'm making a frame or support I prefer the stick.

I've used flux and gas quite a bit. If its a thicker material, you can get a good weld that just needs chipping and mild cleanup much like stick welding. But it doesn't work well on thinner metals because its a thicker wire, and burns hotter. You end up burning through a lot with it. Its really not that expensive to run gas- most of the welders come with a regulator, you just have to go rent the bottle from the local welding shop. If its a small project, just rent a small bottle and it won't cost much.

Oh, and flux core wire costs MUCH more than solid. Last time I bought a 10 lb. spool, it was well over $60 just for the wire. I switched to gas as soon as I did the math, and found I could rent a bottle of gas for what I saved on one 10lb. spool.

Jim

alright thanks for the advice nhdiesel. I guess I will be looking at a gas mig welder then.
now for voltages. I have 220v but only in our equipment building. However since thats where i have been doing most of the work anyway I have no problem with 220v. Let me see if I'm understanding the voltages. 220v is double the voltage = half the amperage resulting with less heat on the welder so it can run beads longer? If so, does that matter that much though since I'll be doing a bit of sheetmetal work so I should be taking breaks when welding thin material like that so as not to warp it anyway

220v welders are generally made for heavier duty welding. It has nothing to do with the current draw.

If you were comparing the same materials for both welders, such as what is needed to weld sheet metal, a 220 welder will draw half the current of a 110. The weld will be the same, its just easier on the machine. The difference is, you have the option of welding much heavier materials with the 220.

As for the duty cycle, yes, its a combination of the lower current draw and the fact that you wouldn't be working the 220 welder at it's highest setting that allows you to weld more without it heating up. But really, for sheet metal, the duty cycle isn't a big issue. I just mentioned it because I used to use my little 110v welder to weld bumpers, trailer hitches, and frames, and was always running it at it's hottest settings.

Don't overlook oxy-acetylene welding. It's become kind of a lost art but still a option IMO.

pros- You can weld almost any weldable metal with the right filler and flux.
You can also use the outfit to cut metal and to heat metal for bending and loosening frozen parts.
You aren't tied down to a power cord.

cons- It's one of the hardest processes to learn.
It's slow.


With all that said, even if you do get a wire or stick welder it's still hard to get by without a oxy-acetylene outfit (for cutting) if you get into much metal work on anything thicker than sheet metal. It also has many more uses than just cutting and welding.

Alright guys thanks for all the great advice, so now with a mig i will have wire and gas. I assume the wires are available in different thicknesses. What thinkness do you recommend for sheet metal? Also are there different gases you can use? If so what type of gas would i use for sheetmetal?

Hey what do you guys think about the Lincoln Handy Mig?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920580000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

hey usa weapon yopu can get a fairly cheap good welder from northern tool. No matter what kind of wire you use keep the heat range some where around halfway or a littleless and use tak welds for the sheet metal it will take you some time to g around the patch but use taks all the way around but make sure you put 1 tak on one side then move to the next side kind of like a up down side to side the karate kid and work your around the patch it very easy to do and remeber on thin sheet metal the tak is your friend oh yeah give it a good 1 sec weld thenmove on if you need help shoot me a pm i am a certified welder some of the guys around here have seen my work i am always around i can help

Why not take a MIG class at the local Community College? You could learn how to weld & most probably the instructor would let you "practice" on those sheet metal repairs to your truck. Before I owned a welder that's what I did. The instructor let me weld up transmission & transfer case mounts for a project that I was working on. He even helped me cut out the mounts on a bench mounted oxy/acet cutter & use the 1/2" scrap steel out of the school's bin. It saved me hundreds of dollars.

Community College is the absolute best place to learn how to weld. You get to use thousands of dollars in supplies, electricity, & scrap metal for maybe $200-300 for the class.

That would be a good idea. however I'm only 15 turning 16 next week lol. I work during the summer and obviously can't do it during the school year. We have a lot of junk metal around our farm so at least I will have a lot to practice on.

USAWEAPON777 said:

That would be a good idea. however I'm only 15 turning 16 next week lol. I work during the summer and obviously can't do it during the school year. We have a lot of junk metal around our farm so at least I will have a lot to practice on.

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Are you going to be a sophomore or a junior? I know that at my high school we had running start and you could take college classes through the high school. I don't know about welding classes specifically but it might be something to look at. Also you should try and get a metal shop class at your high school if they still offer it. It is truly a shame to see those kinds of classes along with music classes cut from education.

I just went through same process to choose mig welder. 110 vs 220 was big decision. So I went both ways. Miller Millermatic® 211 can work with 110V AND 220V.

Used one from CraigsList got for $500.

Tank, gas, mask, gloves, torch with 2 tanks, grinder, extension cords, hand tools, ...
All together around $2,000