Deuce Weight Questions - DMV-oriented

The good news is that USAA seems to have agreed to insure my truck! (Eric of www.Miltrucks.com had already titled it as a Jeep truck in Ohio.)

Tomorow I plan to go to/do battle with the DMV.

In Virginia I'm asked for:
Gross Weight
Empty Weight
GVWR (?Gross Vehicle Weight Rating?), and/or
GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating?).

For an M109A3 shop van configuration what numbers would you use?

On page 4-111 of TM 43-0001-31 the "Shipping Weight" of an M109A3 is listed as 15,400 lbs. Should I use that as the Empty Weight, add the 5,000 lb. Payload for Gross Weight and 6,000 lbs. of Towed Load Allowance for 26,400 lbs. GCWR?

Oooh. I don't plan to tow anything and want to avoid the magic 26,000 lb. number that seems to require a CDL. Should I not enter anything for the latter two then?

Any thoughts/hints? I hope to register it as an Antique Vehicle (no military or historical designations in the Old Dominion that I know of) and never to use it for commercial use.

Opie,
I have 'Storm plated at #26,000 in Indiana. No CDL required due to weight and air over hydraulic brakes. The tongue weight would in theory put it over 26k. However, in Indiana, if a full trailer, not a semi, is being pulled with fully operational brakes on all axles the trailer is considered a seperate towed vehicle (non-motorized). Thus I can in theory tow a vehicle heavier than 6k and be legal. I use a 26k plate and it's cheaper than the 7k plate for my '91 F-150! Go figure. It must be a government operation.

In NJ, and many other states, weight is not an issue when tagging Antique or Historical. Go to your state's website and look up motor vehicle laws. In NJ, pictures are required along with the application for tags.

Opie, all I can say is good luck in dealing with the VA DMV with a military vehicle. I once asked about getting a M791 expandible van 8X8 and got told it was commercial, and then had to call the Federal DOT to see if it was legal to drive. The guy at DOT told me the people at DMV in Richmond were idiots. I agree. My M-715 has had the same serial number as it's VIN since it was tagged and titled in VA sometime in the 70's. When I bought it, I took the title to get it swapped into my name I was told that the VIN was taken by another vehicle. Keep in mind that my 715 has always been titled in VA and had tags on it in 83', and the date on the last title was 1999. I got it titled but the girl at the local DMV office added an "A" to my VIN. This didn't sit well with me, as I had no documentation to verify that DMV had changed it, and I wasn't commiting fraud. I had to get a DMV Special Agent (no crap, it was on his business card) to verify my VIN, and he told me my VIN was on a 1930 Durant and was titled in 76'. Today I called to get another VIN from DMV and was told that there was no way my VIN could be on two different vehicles. They also told me I could not get a new VIN without the number conflict being resolved. So I still have no good VIN to tag my 715 with. It's been fun, I hope you have better luck than I have. I do know a guy in Clifton Forge that has a M35 and I think a 5 ton dump that he drives so it is possible to deal with these people. I might have to get with you sometime and check out your M109 since you are only a little over an hour away. I was going to get on of those, but I wanted to go bigger. Might still end up with a M109 though. Good luck with DMV!

New Jersey Division of Motor Vehicle Services adds letters and/or digits to every vehicle titled that doesn't have enough to satisfy their computers or there's a conflicting VIN.
I once had a M38A1 and the VIN came up as belonging to a Volkswagon, so they altered the VIN when I got a new title. On my low number M135, they prefixed the VIN with GMC and added 53 to the numbers.

Are the data plates still on the dash? That'll list your GVW, and mine is only at a conservative 23,800 (because they count the 5 ton on road capacity in the GVW added to the 13,800 empty weight). But, they don't count the towed allowance, at least not here and since it says and/or you're free from that. If you don't tow, you won't need the CDL, if you do tow you will. And what's the the gross weight? is that counting passengers and fluids and stuff? <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_approve.gif" alt="Approve"> You'll have to enter something for the gross weight rating, since they want to know how much potential it has for tearing up their roads, and incidentally, your registration will reflect that. The bigger the truck the more you pay <img src="emoticons/icon_smilie_bitchin.gif" alt="Bitchin"> Luckily at the DMV here they didn't believe me when I told them how big it was and never asked for a GVWR, so mine's a "Jeep flatbed" now

I was trying to register it as an "antique vehicle" (over 25 model years old in VA) to spare some expenses and hassles of "normal plates" (only 2500 miles/year, occasional use, no commercial usage, no annual safety inspections). I was almost done and the clerk caught the 15,400 lb. empty weight and everything slid to a halt. She told me that over 7,001 lbs. is a heavy-duty truck that had to be plated normally, and that the low milage and high weight definitely put it in a non-antique category. I tried asking for the code section regarding weight restrictions and got the response, "Management said so." I smiled sweetly, thanked her for her time and left.

Now I get to juggle a visit to a "less urban" DMV, contractors to widen the gate in my fence so Opie's Folly gets in and the dogs stay in, and a trip to the auto parts store to get my batteries tested as after a week I didn't have enough juice to start. (A five-ton owner just happened to have his ride (with snowplow blade attached) at the fire station andwas able to give me a jump.)

OY!

When I titled my M35A2 I wanted to title it as an antique, but the stupid WV DMV only give antique plates to vehicles <8000 lbs. The nice guy at the counter said I could have my title made for 8000lbs, but I told him sure as I do that the DOT will pull me over for something stupid and then bust my ass for being overweight for the plate. So I titled it for 16k pounds. I figured the truck weighs about 12k so that will let me haul a couple tons of something without being worried. We pay by the pound here in WV for a Class B tag. That's why I didn't register the whole GVW. Stupid DMV<img src="emoticons/icon_smilie_bitchin.gif" alt="Bitchin">

Sorry to be sharing in your misery...

Looks like I have two contradicting sections of law:

VA Code § 46.2-100. Definitions.

The following words and phrases when used in this title shall, for the purpose of this title, have the meanings respectively ascribed to them in this section except in those instances where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:

"Antique motor vehicle" means every motor vehicle, as defined in this section, which was actually manufactured or designated by the manufacturer as a model manufactured in a calendar year not less than 25 years prior to January 1 of each calendar year and is owned solely as a collector's item.
...
"Truck" means every motor vehicle designed to transport property on its own structure independent of any other vehicle and having a registered gross weight in excess of 7,500 pounds.

Antique Truck, anyone? <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_shrug.gif" alt="Shrug">

WOOO-HOO! <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_jumpin.gif" alt="Jumpin"> Bless the workers of the "outlying DMVs!" I got my Virginia antique plates today without a second look by the clerk! Man am I relieved!

Now to fix the backyard gate so my baby fits in the yard...

Atta Boy Ohp!

Stealth mode is the only way to go!

The gate is easy, just back the Deuce through the gate, and the width will take care of itself! <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" alt="Wink"> <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_approve.gif" alt="Approve"> <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_rotfl.gif" alt="ROTFL">

Nice job, Opie. I got off the phone with the DMV "Special Agent" again today. Still nothing. He agreed that DMV know diddly squat about MVs and that I should just run the VIN with the digit added. I think I'm going to go tag it next week and just hope I don't run into trouble if I sell it or something...

<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_approve.gif" alt="Approve">
LH7, that'll work, but I've gotta keep my "junkyard dogs" (o.k., more like "chow hounds") around to protect my investment.

Elwenil,
I almost went to your DMV in Lexington, as it was also rumored to be more friendly than the one in Roanoke. Rocky Mount wound up being 30 minutes closer, so I went there. Good luck to you next week!

Now that I've got my lovely black & white antique plates, does anyone have hints about how to put a 24v lighted license plate bracket on the rear of a deuce?

I think I can get away with mounting the plate unlighted on the mud flap, but I'd like to explore all of my options.

Thanks, Opie. We actually have our own DMV here in little smelly ol' Covington, which is probably half my problem. Dumb as a stump comes to mind frequently. As for the license plate lame, the only think I can suggest is get a normal 12V one and swap in a 24V bulb. Most license lamps use a 67, 168, or 1157 12V bulb. The 67 in 24V should be something like a 1251. The 168 is a 464. I haven't used these, but that is what my catalog comes up with. If you get something weird, I can try and cross the bulb numbers up to a 24V for most. Getting them from a parts store is another matter. I have had good luck with NAPA though.

That is okay, I'm being told that it needs to be registered commercial just because it has more than 5 plus wheels. Answer to that is why does a motor home with more than 5 plus wheels not commerial?

The word commercial means to use for business to haul cargo or people and to earn money. Massachusetts is requiring a Medical card if over 10,000# and registered as commercial.

If being used for personal use and not to earn money, the should just give you a plate and charge for the extra weight, or consider it a specialty vehicle.

By making you register it commercial they open you up to a bunch of other regulations etc...

Just boobs and they do not know how to interperate their own written laws. The problem is it is not a normal vehicle and there is no cookie cutter answer for them. Therefore the DMV goes to what they have been preprogramed with for answers.

Gee am I venting. As I'm having the same problem here in Massachusetts. It is not the commercial registration or the Medical card that I'm concerned with. It is the commercial truck insurance policy that is being forced down my throat that they want $2,300.00 for before registering the truck.

Register it online, take the idiot factor out of it. Tell them their business like you know it like the back of your hand and see what happens.

BTW, my truck weighed 12,500# no winch, no spare...including about 200# for the heavier CAT motor I put in.