cummins 6BT bobbed m52

hello,

after much debate between me and my dad we want to go with a cummins 6BT into his m52 1956 tractor. after noticing the engine (the stock diesel) we couldnt figure out why there was gas in the gas tank and he was moving the truck around the yard.. a connecting rod fell out of a hole in the engine ! some idiot put gas into it and ran it untill it detonated! pics to follow later for your entertainment. so before we proceed with this can i have some advice from you experts on the subjects of..

WHAT ADAPTER PLATE CAN I GET TO MATE A 6BT UNTO THE STOCK 5 SPEED TRANSMISSION???????

what are the transmission and transfer case specifications? (names specifically)
what is the diff ratio in the 6x6???
what are the likelyhood of getting another diesel like the straight 6 thats in it? what are the speicifiations on that engine.. cause if we could get another one like it then it would kind of make sense just to mod the **** out of it.
is there any forums dedicated to boobing the 6x6 1956 m52 ???

any help on any of these subjects would be awesome !! thanks guys !!

it had a multi fuel 230 hp most likely, if it was a diesel that means gasoline would have been an acceptable fuel for that truck in an emergency scenario, I don't know what availability is up north of us but they are still readily available in the states. You can swap just about any medium duty engine into pretty easy, I think its an sae #2 bellhousing. A better swap would be a cummins 8.3 or a dt466 due to the trucks they come out of are more comparable. Also with any of those two engines you would not have to mod the hood or body to make them fit. Diffs are usually a 6.43 if memory serves. This forum has the smartest members on it for any truck in vintage. Others will chime in. Plus if you use the search option in the forum you can see other threads where other members have done what you are talking about.

Is the Cummins 8.3 a 250? If so, it will not fit.

no. the cummins nhc 250 is a 14 litre 855 cube motor, the 8.3 is a 505 cube motor

gimpyrobb said:

Is the Cummins 8.3 a 250? If so, it will not fit.

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The 8.3-6CT is surprisingly small given its power (mine is a 250hp version, with ~700ftlbs torque available very low in the power range).

This is only about 4 inches both longer and taller than the 5.9-6BT.

I'm happy to get the tape out on mine if anyone needs a measurement - just PM me so I definitely see it.

Best,
Bob

eldgenb said:

it had a multi fuel 230 hp most likely, if it was a diesel that means gasoline would have been an acceptable fuel for that truck in an emergency scenario, I don't know what availability is up north of us but they are still readily available in the states. You can swap just about any medium duty engine into pretty easy, I think its an sae #2 bellhousing. A better swap would be a cummins 8.3 or a dt466 due to the trucks they come out of are more comparable. Also with any of those two engines you would not have to mod the hood or body to make them fit. Diffs are usually a 6.43 if memory serves. This forum has the smartest members on it for any truck in vintage. Others will chime in. Plus if you use the search option in the forum you can see other threads where other members have done what you are talking about.

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+1
the benefit of a 8.3 cummins or dt466 is they are everywhere, you can buy a complete truck/school bus for 2-5k , transplant the motor/ and tranny if you like, then part out the rest of the truck and scrap the leftovers. all the 8.3's are good mechanical "p" pump motors , and the desireable dt466 is mid 93-95 versions with the same bosch "p' pump. both are legendary due to the ease of tuning the pump , 100hp gains are not uncommon with this pump. I have been contyemplating the same swap for some time now.

Cummins 8.3 (CTA) was only mechanical prior to 96 or 97, I forget when the exact changeover was. It may also be listed as a 6CT or 6CTA. The ISC series are still 8.3L but are the newer architecture and in some cases common rail fuel injection and computer controlled. The mechanical version of this engine is a power house. You could very easily get 400hp and over 1000 foot pounds of torque and not compromise drivability or engine life (with proper setup, cooling, etc) It is very common to see a number two (SAE) bellhousing on this engine, which will mate to a host of medium duty transmissions. Not sure if the factory five ton transmission is that pattern or not.. (thanks for the clarification)


For drivability you may wish to get a medium duty 6-10 speed manual transmission (Eaton fuller, etc) from a heavy truck yard, parts truck, etc. Could also buy a cheap truck and take the driveline as suggested above. Hit the diesel truck forums for info on the 6BT and 8.3L engines, there is tons of knowledge online and these engines have been around a long time. With the power potential of these two motors, there is no reason to install larger motors like NTC, BC3/4, KTA, etc., into any truck unless you are hauling 80k up and down the highway all day. JMO... cheers

flat black said:

............. Not sure if the factory five ton transmission is that pattern or not.........................

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sae#2, 100%!


G.

bump for updates, did this ever get done?

It would like to know what engines have been put in m52 style trucks and worked out . My m52a2 needs a fresh rebuilt multifuel or a different engine I have though of putting a mack engine . But would like to know what swaps worked .

I guess Swedish is better than French, but not my first choice:

Mack Trucks is an American truck-manufacturing company and a wholly owned subsidiary of Renault Véhicules Industriels since 1990. Mack Trucks is currently a subsidiary of AB Volvo. On 2 January 2001, Renault Véhicules Industriels (which included Mack Trucks) was sold to Volvo, which renamed it Renault Trucks.

Has anyone ever seen a sae #2 bell housing for a 5.9? I have not.

ODdave said:

Has anyone ever seen a sae #2 bell housing for a 5.9? I have not.

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They are actually very common. The 5.9 was used in some of the Freightliner FL series and the Ford F650-750 trucks, along with others. These trucks used regular medium duty transmissions, both automagics and manuals, in the SAE 2 bellhousing flavor.

The Dodge pickup guys have been grabbing them to put RoadRangers and Eaton/Fuller transmissions in their pickups because of the reliability problems with the NV4500 and NV5600 transmissions, but there are plenty of them out there. Any truck junkyard should have a pile of them.

You could even put a Cummins 5.9 SAE 2 bellhousing on a 3.9 4BT, someone on 4btswaps was going to put a 10 speed behind one. Talk about never, ever making enough power to hurt your transmission

gavan said:

They are actually very common. The 5.9 was used in some of the Freightliner FL series and the Ford F650-750 trucks, along with others. These trucks used regular medium duty transmissions, both automagics and manuals, in the SAE 2 bellhousing flavor.

The Dodge pickup guys have been grabbing them to put RoadRangers and Eaton/Fuller transmissions in their pickups because of the reliability problems with the NV4500 and NV5600 transmissions, but there are plenty of them out there. Any truck junkyard should have a pile of them.

You could even put a Cummins 5.9 SAE 2 bellhousing on a 3.9 4BT, someone on 4btswaps was going to put a 10 speed behind one. Talk about never, ever making enough power to hurt your transmission

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I have 5.9's from fl60 &70. And from school busses. I have only ever seen sae #3 on them......

ODdave said:

I have 5.9's from fl60 &70. And from school busses. I have only ever seen sae #3 on them......

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Lots of #2s out there.

Site for conversion to FS/FSO transmission with several different parts numbers for #2 bellhousings

Conversion Parts List

Buildup on Pirate about putting a RTOO behind a 5.9 with a #2 housing

No more trans failures: RoadRanger swap - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Another build with a SAE2 housing behind a 5.9

NV5600 to FSO6406A 6 speed Fuller - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

It is going to depend on the transmission as to what bellhousing was initially in the truck. A lot of the automatics in that timeframe in the smaller mediums were AT545s, which come with a SAE 3 bellhousing. You can get them with bigger manual transmissions and some that had the bigger MT653 that were paired with the SAE 2 bellhousing.

Depending on your location, and the types of trucks you are looking at, the SAE 3 trucks might be more common, but there were plenty of SAE 2 bellhousings out there in the world.

Used 5.9 SAE 2 bellhousing for sale

Truck Parts Inventory Portals

I have heard from very reliable sources that the 8.3 bellhousing will fit on the 5.9 as well, and the last time I looked at the back of a 8.3 this is very believable. If someone has an ESN for a 8.3 I can look at Cummins QuickServe and confirm.

Good to know. thanks.

Planning on putting a Cummins 350 turbo and roadranger 9 speed in my M813. I found Gavan's road ranger swap interesting. It makes swapping in a Eaton/Fuller easy in a military truck. I was thinking that a carrier bear would solve the front drive shaft issues. Problem solved!