P51 down at Reno air races

Nonotagain · Sep 16, 2011

Plane Crash at Air Races at Reno-Stead Airport

Posted: Sep 16, 2011 7:34 PM EDT Updated: Sep 16, 2011 8:29 PM EDT

Courtesy: Powell Branch/Reno
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Plane Crash at Air Races at Reno-Stead Airport

Kellene StockwellChannel 2 News Witnesses say the plane was about 400-500 feet in the air when it nosedived and crashed near a spectator stand at the Air Races at the Reno-Stead Airport.
The accident happened just before 4:30pm during the National Championship Air Races.
Our reporter Chris Ciarlo says the P51 WWII Mustang was third in contention during the gold heat when the crash happened.
The plane DID NOT hit the stands, it hit nearby tables instead.
We just received confirmation that the pilot in the crash was Jimmy Leeward and he flew the Galloping Ghost. There's no word on his condition.
A second reporter on scene, Paul Nelson says it appears the Mustang hit halfway down the stands. Crime tape now covers the area.
Airport personnel and military evacuated thousands of spectators.
There's no official word yet on any injuries.
Just yesterday, a pilot had to make a hard landing after his plane had engine problems and declared an emergency.
The air races are canceled for the rest of today.

wreckerman893 · Sep 16, 2011

The Reno air races have a high casualty rating.

Sevral pilots have been killed in the last few years.

updated 8:20 p.m.
RENO, Nev. (AP) -- A World War II era fighter plane plunged into the grandstands Friday during a popular annual air show, injuring at least 75 spectators and leaving a horrific scene of bodies and wreckage.
It wasn't immediately known if anyone died in the crash but a spokesman for the event called it a "mass casualty situation." Video showed a chaotic scene with several people apparently badly wounded.

Stephanie Kruse, a spokeswoman for the Regional Emergency Medical Service Authority, said 25 people were critically injured and another 25 people were seriously hurt in the crash. More than 25 more people were treated for minor injuries, she said.

papercu · Sep 16, 2011

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/conversations/75294-reno-air-race-crash.html

Derrickl112 · Sep 16, 2011

papercu said:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/conversations/75294-reno-air-race-crash.html

This thread was made first. but somehow the one in the link got more responces...

SMOKEWAGON66 · Sep 16, 2011

That sucks! I read the story, then the comments below. The comments just made me mad. I mean how do people associate an air race crash to politics, religion, or race? And people complaining that the pilot was too old. The people in this country now-a-days just seem to be on a serious decline in common sense, intelligence, and morality.

John S-B · Sep 17, 2011

I didn't think they were allowed to fly over the crowds at airshows after the crash in Ramstein. (I think it was that one) There's a video out that's very graphic, shows dozens injured very clearly. There's a lot of people that are gonna be traumatized by this accident. This one will cause a lot of discussion because of th pilot's age. Those folks are gonna need lots of prayers.

vtdeucedriver · Sep 17, 2011

John S-B said:
I didn't think they were allowed to fly over the crowds at airshows after the crash in Ramstein. (I think it was that one) There's a video out that's very graphic, shows dozens injured very clearly. There's a lot of people that are gonna be traumatized by this accident. This one will cause a lot of discussion because of th pilot's age. Those folks are gonna need lots of prayers.

They are not allowed and they do not fly over the crowd at any show. The pilots age is reported wrong, he was 74.

There is evidence of a mechanical.

RIP Jimmy.

marsman · Sep 17, 2011

I saw the article on CNN. They are calling the pilot a hero as he was going in he did his best to avoid the crows. My hart goes out to all of those family's that lost a family member.

USAFSS-ColdWarrior · Sep 17, 2011

'Tis a sad day indeed.....

Our thoughts are with those grieving this loss.

USAFSS-ColdWarrior · Sep 21, 2011

Local woman FATALITY at Reno Air Show

A local woman (San Angelo, TX) is one of the fatailities of the Reno Air Show Crash.

Here's a link the the local paper's article....

Local woman killed in air race crash Standard-Times

Our prayers are with ALL involved and affected by this tragedy.

Flyingvan911 · Sep 21, 2011

I read the plane was modified and not tested for airworthiness. The wings and ailerons were shortened and they modified the tail. If it's true, I can't believe they'd let it off the ground.

Nonotagain · Sep 21, 2011

Flyingvan911 said:
I read the plane was modified and not tested for airworthiness. The wings and ailerons were shortened and they modified the tail. If it's true, I can't believe they'd let it off the ground.

Most old War Birds fly using the "Experimental" classification since no PMA authority is available.

The main difference is that Experimental doesn't require traceability for cycle or hour timed parts.

USAFSS-ColdWarrior · Sep 22, 2011

Nonotagain said:
Most old War Birds fly using the "Experimental" classification since no PMA authority is available.

The main difference is that Experimental doesn't require traceability for cycle or hour timed parts.

YUP !

It's very much the same as MV's in Texas and many other states that are registered as "antique" or "historic" or "Former Military" vehicles.... They operate WITHOUT the normally requred annual inspection and/or inspection stickers. As a collectible relic, the OWNER becomes RESPONSIBLE for it's SAFE OPERATIONAL CONDITION etc.

WARNING...

This is EXACTLY why we who operate former military vehicles CANNOT AFFORD to risk ANY and ALL UNSAFE OPS. Not only might there be a horrible accident, but the PUBLIC OUTCRY for GOOBERMINT CONTROL of the safety aspects of our hobby could be the FALLOUT of such a SHTF event.

saddamsnightmare · Sep 22, 2011

September 22nd, 2011.

My condolences go out to all those who have been injured or killed at Reno, including Mr. Leeward's family. However, this IS going to raise the question of the adviseability of modifying and pushing 70+ year old airframes and engines beyond their orginal design specifications, and it really needs to raise the question of whether a 74 year old person should be flying such a machine, no matter how skilled. The P51 was a fast plane to start with, but Mr. Leeward has admitted to pushing the envelope, which serves no purpose beyond racing, as this is not a current aircraft design. What it does prove is that these folks need to order new purpose built aircraft from the builders if they want to push the envelope, at least the airframe can be engineered from the start to do it. If you don't have the money for the new A.C., not problem, this style of race is but little removed from the Circuses of the Romans, I'm sure they folks in the stands will be happy to subsidize the design work with their continued attendance.
What bothers me almost as much as the death and distruction this accident caused is the loss of another historical aircraft, albiet modified almost beyond recognition, a survivor in some form of WWII and a part of US history. As a historian and curator, this shows an extreme lack of respect among many people for the symbolism that is attached to the surviving fabric, EG, the surviving vehicles, planes, ships and yes, even the weapons that were used in the world circling war. Fortunately we have not seen the like of it since, but there are certainly enough petty despots today to keep us all busy somewhere.
This wreck, and the one at Martinsburg,WV so soon after, is going to bring the light of reason to what otherwise is a wild west territory of racing, and perhaps some good will result by requiring stricter inspections and certifications of the men and their machines. 2cents

B3.3T · Sep 22, 2011

saddamsnightmare said:
September 22nd, 2011.

My condolences go out to all those who have been injured or killed at Reno, including Mr. Leeward's family. However, this IS going to raise the question of the adviseability of modifying and pushing 70+ year old airframes and engines beyond their orginal design specifications, and it really needs to raise the question of whether a 74 year old person should be flying such a machine, no matter how skilled. The P51 was a fast plane to start with, but Mr. Leeward has admitted to pushing the envelope, which serves no purpose beyond racing, as this is not a current aircraft design. What it does prove is that these folks need to order new purpose built aircraft from the builders if they want to push the envelope, at least the airframe can be engineered from the start to do it. If you don't have the money for the new A.C., not problem, this style of race is but little removed from the Circuses of the Romans, I'm sure they folks in the stands will be happy to subsidize the design work with their continued attendance.
What bothers me almost as much as the death and distruction this accident caused is the loss of another historical aircraft, albiet modified almost beyond recognition, a survivor in some form of WWII and a part of US history. As a historian and curator, this shows an extreme lack of respect among many people for the symbolism that is attached to the surviving fabric, EG, the surviving vehicles, planes, ships and yes, even the weapons that were used in the world circling war. Fortunately we have not seen the like of it since, but there are certainly enough petty despots today to keep us all busy somewhere.
This wreck, and the one at Martinsburg,WV so soon after, is going to bring the light of reason to what otherwise is a wild west territory of racing, and perhaps some good will result by requiring stricter inspections and certifications of the men and their machines.

These racing "P51s" are no more an original WWII P51 than Jimmy Johnson's NASCAR is a Toyota. It is in name and appearance only. There is nothing old. These are purpose-built racing machines from the ground up. This was not the loss of a vintage aircraft.

dodgedougak · Sep 22, 2011

True, these planes are highly modified racing machines, but the general public sees them as military surplus equipment and thanks to this last accident many would like to legislate the use of them out of existance.

USAFSS-Coldwarrior's point is still true. It is the public perception that matters and we are constantly watched by the public. Most of the public is interested and neutral, but some hate us, our hardware and our hobby. These haters are also after guns, hotrods and most things that burn fuel.They look for any excuse to legislate or agitate against us and our trucks. We are so visible and arguably can do more damage in an accident (than say a Hyundai Elantra) that our public persona is going to be put under a microscope. A minority of MV owners do behave in ways that can bring discredit to the hobby. Some with MV's do tear up the land and drive crazy. It is up to the majority of MV owners to promote interest in the hobby, good behavior by owners and responsible use of our MV's. We don't have the bucks of the gun hobby, but are put on trial by the same, well financed enemies. You don't have to be right to win in court, or get a law written, you just have to have enough money and a burning desire to prosecute your prejudice, regardless of the cost.

dodgedougak · Sep 22, 2011

True, these planes are highly modified racing machines, but the general public sees them as military surplus equipment and thanks to this last accident many would like to legislate the use of them out of existance.

USAFSS-Coldwarrior's point is still true. It is the public perception that matters and we are constantly watched by the public. Most of the public is interested and neutral, but some hate us, our hardware and our hobby. These haters are also after guns, hotrods and most things that burn fuel.They look for any excuse to legislate or agitate against us and our trucks. We are so visible and arguably can do more damage in an accident (than say a Hyundai Elantra) that our public persona is going to be put under a microscope. A minority of MV owners do behave in ways that can bring discredit to the hobby. Some with MV's do tear up the land and drive crazy. It is up to the majority of MV owners to promote interest in the hobby, good behavior by owners and responsible use of our MV's. We don't have the bucks of the gun hobby, but are put on trial by the same, well financed enemies. You don't have to be right to win in court, or get a law written, you just have to have enough money and a burning desire to prosecute your prejudice, regardless of the cost.

PropDr · Sep 22, 2011

saddamsnightmare said:
September 22nd, 2011.

My condolences go out to all those who have been injured or killed at Reno, including Mr. Leeward's family. However, this IS going to raise the question of the adviseability of modifying and pushing 70+ year old airframes and engines beyond their orginal design specifications, and it really needs to raise the question of whether a 74 year old person should be flying such a machine, no matter how skilled. The P51 was a fast plane to start with, but Mr. Leeward has admitted to pushing the envelope, which serves no purpose beyond racing, as this is not a current aircraft design. What it does prove is that these folks need to order new purpose built aircraft from the builders if they want to push the envelope, at least the airframe can be engineered from the start to do it. If you don't have the money for the new A.C., not problem, this style of race is but little removed from the Circuses of the Romans, I'm sure they folks in the stands will be happy to subsidize the design work with their continued attendance.
What bothers me almost as much as the death and distruction this accident caused is the loss of another historical aircraft, albiet modified almost beyond recognition, a survivor in some form of WWII and a part of US history. As a historian and curator, this shows an extreme lack of respect among many people for the symbolism that is attached to the surviving fabric, EG, the surviving vehicles, planes, ships and yes, even the weapons that were used in the world circling war. Fortunately we have not seen the like of it since, but there are certainly enough petty despots today to keep us all busy somewhere.
This wreck, and the one at Martinsburg,WV so soon after, is going to bring the light of reason to what otherwise is a wild west territory of racing, and perhaps some good will result by requiring stricter inspections and certifications of the men and their machines.

The same thing could of happened to a new modified aircraft with a 30 year old pilot, age has nothing to do with it. Racing is inherently dangerous and that will never change.

In my opinion the single biggest improvement that they could do is move the race course further away from the stands.

B3.3T said:
These racing "P51s" are no more an original WWII P51 than Jimmy Johnson's NASCAR is a Toyota. It is in name and appearance only. There is nothing old. These are purpose-built racing machines from the ground up. This was not the loss of a vintage aircraft.

How do you figure?

Yes its heavily modified but According to the FAA database its a original airframe built by North American in 1946 and not a reproduction.

FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry

vtdeucedriver · Sep 22, 2011

QUOTE

How do you figure?

Yes its heavily modified but According to the FAA database its a original airframe built by North American in 1946 and not a reproduction.

FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry[/QUOTE]

By a Data plate that is rivited to a manufactured airplane that in respect followed the same design as the original. If you knew the FULL history of most of our warbirds today..........ONLY A SMALL part of our Mustang population today is of 1944 MFG. A prime example is Jack Roush's P-51 B that Jimmy Leeward often flew for Jack. That airplane came out of a lake in Florida in very small pieces, one being its dataplate. The rest has been manufactured using the same drawings from WW2 and thats how its called a P-51. Jimmy's Galoping Ghost has been a Bendix Trophy Racer since 1946 and in that time and all the modifications thats been done, there was NOTHING stock or old about it. Did you know that Jack Roush has taken NASCAR technology and he manufactures parts and builds Rolls Royce engines and is VERY well known in the warbird community.

Jimmy might have been 74 but in this circumstance, age would have not made any difference if the pilot was a physically fit 30 yr old.

vtdeucedriver · Sep 22, 2011

Nonotagain said:
Most old War Birds fly using the "Experimental" classification since no PMA authority is available.

Not True, Most warbirds are either standard or Limited category. The Stearman can be licensed as Standard Category. These airplanes look to the same specifications as originally designed. Only Experimental is used when the airplanes have been modified say a FW 190 with its original BMW engine could be licensed as a Limited category but since the BMW engine is few and far between in existance, a American powerplant like a P&W R2800 could be used then a experimental category would be a likely choice.

P51 down at Reno air races

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