Our New Departmental MRAP

ReubenJames,

Thanks for starting this thread. You're right the green does kind of grow on you with the black offsets. Looks like its off to a good start. Keep up the good work, not sure if you're in charge of maintaining it or how much help I'd be, but I'll happily lend a hand when I'm available.

Al Harvey said:

The hood is fiberglass. The vehicle is designed to protect it's occupants. It's not built like an APC or Tank so there is no protection for the engine or drivetrain. The idea (and it works) is that when an IED goes off it can destroy everything except the hull of the vehicle. Trying to protect the drivetrain would have added soo much more weight to these things.

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An armed shooter with a shotgun or pistol won't be much of a threat, but if he has a high power rifle and a little intelligence (admittedly rare in most criminals), he could turn the truck into a stationary barricade. You might want to practice approaching the suspect's location in reverse while the top gunner provides cover, or at least provide for a ballistic shield mountable on the bumper for a direct approach. Then again, like RuebenJames said, if it gets broke, turn it in and get another one.

I used to always wonder why more police departments didn't use commercial armored trucks a la Wells Fargo, like the police in the North Hollywood shootout borrowed, but recently realized these FMVs were free loaners and saved the taxpayer's 100s of thousands of dollars. The loaner program also keeps the vehicles in service and available for recall in the event of an all-out war of the scale of WWII, instead of a pile of scrap metal on a slow boat to China.

Trailboss said:

An armed shooter with a shotgun or pistol won't be much of a threat, but if he has a high power rifle and a little intelligence (admittedly rare in most criminals), he could turn the truck into a stationary barricade. You might want to practice approaching the suspect's location in reverse while the top gunner provides cover, or at least provide for a ballistic shield mountable on the bumper for a direct approach. Then again, like RuebenJames said, if it gets broke, turn it in and get another one.

I used to always wonder why more police departments didn't use commercial armored trucks a la Wells Fargo, like the police in the North Hollywood shootout borrowed, but recently realized these FMVs were free loaners and saved the taxpayer's 100s of thousands of dollars. The loaner program also keeps the vehicles in service and available for recall in the event of an all-out war of the scale of WWII, instead of a pile of scrap metal on a slow boat to China.

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Hey Trailboss, you got a right busy motor pool there (I'm adding up a count of 24 and more). Nice!

And your comment about all-out war brings to mind the comment that "I don't know what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but WWIV will be fought with stones and sticks" or something to that effect. Einstein is supposed to have said it, but I don't think the record shows who really came up with it.

And that "stones and sticks" thing might actually be real likely: still a WHOLE lot of warheads in the kitty between us and the Russians, much less all the other members of "The Club".

But if it ever does come to that (all-out war of the scale of WWII): well we might all of us see the flash, but I doubt any of us would have the time to say much more than "Oh S---!!!" (or the equivalent in Chinese, Russian, etc.), beyond that before it was all over.

Trailboss said:

An armed shooter with a shotgun or pistol won't be much of a threat, but if he has a high power rifle and a little intelligence (admittedly rare in most criminals), he could turn the truck into a stationary barricade. You might want to practice approaching the suspect's location in reverse while the top gunner provides cover, or at least provide for a ballistic shield mountable on the bumper for a direct approach. Then again, like RuebenJames said, if it gets broke, turn it in and get another one.

I used to always wonder why more police departments didn't use commercial armored trucks a la Wells Fargo, like the police in the North Hollywood shootout borrowed, but recently realized these FMVs were free loaners and saved the taxpayer's 100s of thousands of dollars. The loaner program also keeps the vehicles in service and available for recall in the event of an all-out war of the scale of WWII, instead of a pile of scrap metal on a slow boat to China.

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Yes, the hood is fiberglass, but the grill is armor grade steel. Its going to take more that 99% of what's available to the civilian sector in both weapons and ammunition to stop the motor. How do I know? I've seen one of these take 8 PKM hit to the engine compartment. The vehicle was able to drive out of the kill zone with the troops needing nothing more than a fresh change of undergarments. The engine wasn't happy doing this, but it did it. The are extremely top heavy and roll easy. 08' south MSR Tampa Iraq. The convoy was rolling along at about 50mph. Out of nowhere one of those hits a pot hole with the rear tire and over she went. Off road they are a joke. Ether sinking with no traction, or not having enough power to lug the fat girl through. Another negative for these things is that you cant see any thing as a driver. There are so many blind spots its unreal. But for its intended purpose, I think its perfect. You want offensive capabilities, add a CROW.

Reuben, Nice acquisition for your unit. I can only say I am very envious .

Im serving in the Danish National Guard and as such does happen to see an MRAP from time to time, since we have some of the Cougars on loan from the US. The Cougar (wasn't really a Cougar, but a JERRV (Joint EOD Rapid Response Vehicle), that we had locally for driver training with additional hardening) I use for my avatar is one I had the opportunity to ride in the back off and I must say I was very impressed. I was on a local army base for 4x4 training in their jeeps and the instructor rolled it out to showcase its night-time FLIR driving cam. When parking it up inside some of us managed to get a ride in the back and I was impressed with the suspension on these beasts. They had a large cable hump (ie chucks they place on the ground that you drive over in order to protect electrical cabling etc) and in the jeep and the other trucks they were unbearable to drive over, but the JERRV/Cougar rolled on over them like they were next to nothing.

I wish you and your department the best of luck with your new "toy", and hope it will help keep you all safe and sound for the future. I like the paintjob, which is spot on. But I will echo the others on here about being careful when driving them around, because all that extra armour does tend to make them very top heavy and "unstable" in some conditions.

@DieselFreak88M,

Yea these vehicles are very durable and hard to stop apart from puncturing all tires, but even then it can keep rolling. According to what I have been told the JERRV/Cougars radiator grill can withstand repeated shots by 14.5mm as well as placing a hand grenade right at the grill. At some point its just sad that this kind of vehicle is actually needed for the regular LEO's etc in order to be able to do parts of their jobs. And realistically in a in-theatre setup you don't need to see all around the vehicle ie like what is right outside your door. Generally I would think the MRAP's are a part of the protection detail for a convoy and would otherwise respond before something got that close as to vanish in your blind spots.

That Paint looks great. We just recently got put on the MRAP waiting list and are possibly receiving a Caiman. Plan on using same paint scheme with dark gray instead of green.

Man, those are tricky to drive. They are heavy, and don't stop short and as others already said, they are top heavy. This is my experience, I would be worried that its more likely to kill the occupants or somebody else than protect anybody without proper training. Rollovers in the HMMWV and both the MATV and MAXPRO were far too common.

Here is the nearly finished project...Still need to install fiberglass poles on the front bumper to arch over the top to push any low wires up over it. Also we have all the drivers getting prepped for training by the military as soon as we can work out the logistics.

Just use some pvc pipe for the wire navigation.

A couple of years ago several LEO's and the local Drug Task Force were attempting to serve a warrant on a tweaker and his girlfriend. The designated a**hole stepped out on the porch and opened fire with an AK and killed two deputies. I don't know if having one of these vehicles would have helped but it couldn't have hurt.
The fact that law enforcement needs these vehicles is a sad commentary on the criminal justice system, not the rank and file that are out there enforcing the law.
While there is a potential for their misuse I have to have faith that 99 percent of LEO's would do the right thing if asked to misuse these vehicles or violate their oaths to uphold our Constitution. The right thing being refusing an illegal order.
Having served in an armored unit (tanks) I understand that there is a doctrine to using armor against a threat.
The M1 tank with all it's protection wasn't enough against a determined and resourceful enemy. Many M1's were destroyed or damaged to the point they had to be evacuated from the battlefield. The smaller tracked and wheeled vehicles fared even worse.
In my capacity as a Public Affairs soldier I was privy to classified pictures of battle damaged vehicles. There is no such thing as bullet proof or indestructible.
In battle armored vehicles travel in groups in order to provide overwatch for each other. A group of armored vehicles is a threat, a single armored vehicle is a challenge.

what department do you work for and typically what would you use a MRAP for? I used them overseas and am now aware that some police forces are getting them. I would think that the situation would have to be pretty hairy if you needed to take a MRAP. They do roll over very easy so be careful.

I will agree with the above.

As for wire navigation, schedule 40 pvc will work.

ABBSOLUTLY nothing is in-penetrable or in-destructable. I will say that it's unfortunately a realty that AMERICA'S LEO'S now have to deal with the threat that we do in the middle east. But I'm also willing to stick my neck out there; in the name of law and safety. PM me for further contact I formation. And we can discuss this further

DieselFreak88M said:

I will agree with the above.

As for wire navigation, schedule 40 pvc will work.

ABBSOLUTLY nothing is in-penetrable or in-destructable. I will say that it's unfortunately a realty that AMERICA'S LEO'S now have to deal with the threat that we do in the middle east. But I'm also willing to stick my neck out there; in the name of law and safety. PM me for further contact I formation. And we can discuss this further

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I guess I'm failing to see any instance where law enforcement needs these. When is the last time bad guys were shooting RPGs or setting IEDs in this country? Nothing has changed since swat teams first came out. There are not huge fire fights going on in the streets of America.

I will agree with the above.

As for wire navigation, schedule 40 pvc will work.

ABBSOLUTLY nothing is in-penetrable or in-destructable. I will say that it's unfortunately a realty that AMERICA'S LEO'S now have to deal with the threat that we do in the middle east. But I'm also willing to stick my neck out there; in the name of law and safety. PM me for further contact I formation. And we can discuss this further

Just being the devils advocate, but I'm sure the .300 black out, the beowulf, amongst other rounds weren't avalable. Also, as with every other arms and armor race, it's always a catch and mouse game

DieselFreak88M said:

Just being the devils advocate, but I'm sure the .300 black out, the beowulf, amongst other rounds weren't avalable. Also, as with every other arms and armor race, it's always a catch and mouse game

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And how many times has that round been used in a fight with cops? You really didn't counter what I said. RPGs or IEDs have never been used in a shoot out with them.

DieselFreak88M said:

I will agree with the above.

As for wire navigation, schedule 40 pvc will work.

ABBSOLUTLY nothing is in-penetrable or in-destructable. I will say that it's unfortunately a realty that AMERICA'S LEO'S now have to deal with the threat that we do in the middle east. But I'm also willing to stick my neck out there; in the name of law and safety. PM me for further contact I formation. And we can discuss this further

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Just remember that we had Peacekeeper armored vehicles before...

The Paint Job looks great Rueben! I almost didn't recognize is as a MaxxPro at first. for a second I thought it was a Bearcat or something else. Looks like you guys got the emergency lights hooked up. May benefit from some reflective tape on the back just so someone doesn't tag something as they are passing. Spotlights (or a Surefire Hellfighter) would be good up top. Also, very glad to hear you have coordinated for proper driver's training. I know my post probably looked a bit like beating a dead horse, but there's nothing that can replace good solid training.

PVC Pipe work work just fine, I think that's most of what was used in theater. You may also want to put some mudflaps on the back of it.... those tires can kick a lot of stuff up especially if you're cruising down a main road/highway with a squad behind.

Mercunimog404 said:

I guess I'm failing to see any instance where law enforcement needs these. When is the last time bad guys were shooting RPGs or setting IEDs in this country? Nothing has changed since swat teams first came out. There are not huge fire fights going on in the streets of America.

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I wish I lived in your world...I guess you've never been shot at nor had dynamite thrown at you. Just because you don't hear/see it reported on the evening news doesn't mean that it's not happening. It DOES happen in fact, and getting shot at is becoming a daily occurrence.

LEOs DO have a need for these vehicles...it seems like at least once a week we're receiving confidential briefings on potential IEDs and homemade EFPs currently being deployed by various criminal entities, as well as items being discovered at our borders (God only knows how many have gotten through undetected so far).

As for IEDs not being set off in this country, I guess you've never accompanied a task force taking down meth labs nor the large Mexican cartel-run marijuana grow areas not far from you...there are in fact IEDs and all kinds of booby-traps around those areas, and they are accessible by vehicles & MRAPs.

To say that LEOs have no use for these, is to be ignorant of the facts as we face today...I fear for the LEOs of the near future, my time is winding down and it's not looking good.

DieselFreak88M said:

ABBSOLUTLY nothing is in-penetrable or in-destructable. I will say that it's unfortunately a realty that AMERICA'S LEO'S now have to deal with the threat that we do in the middle east. But I'm also willing to stick my neck out there; in the name of law and safety. PM me for further contact I formation. And we can discuss this further

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All too true, thank you for your service as well. We are in fact encountering many homemade IEDs & EFPs, as well as heavier weaponry, and the Mexican cartels are becoming much more active & prevalent throughout nearly every state.