FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

The FLU farm · Sep 12, 2016

General Hood said:
Mr Rat gets a dishonorable Discharge for destruction of Govt Property

Mr. Rat had several dishonorable discharges in my parts SEE, aka turds.

On a brighter note, it looks like the honorable General Hood will be able to help us out with wiring charts, so hold your wire, Ron. It'll be easier to fix what you have left with a diagram.

General Hood · Sep 13, 2016

I haven't had time to work on my SEEs this week

, but haven't seen you guys post any updates either. Are we on strike?

opcorn:

Go Go Gadget FLU 419 · Sep 14, 2016

Same thoughts here. I had to make the best of the cold Saturday we had and spend 4 days at the river. Haven't touched mine. Guess I'll have to save up money for injectors and/or the fuel pump. POS!

Skidpad · Sep 14, 2016

Hello, new member, looking for a couple of pointers

Hello to the group! Newly minted owner of a SEE here. Just arrived last night. I think that I have finally been rewarded for all these years of saying 'when will the good guy ever get a break?' Because, although there are still some issues to go through, this beast is in fine shape. She even came with the full complement of hand tools! I've been combing this forum for a week now but I do have some questions. I apologize in advance if they have been answered already but I was unable to find them. I'm an old grunt so simple answers work best for me. :roll:

1. Is there a generally agreed upon engine oil for these other than the mil-spec listed in the TM?
2. Does anyone have a link to a video or a simple procedure on how to remove the loader and backhoe?
3. Is it common for the ignition switch to rotate almost freely? I think I just need to order a new one from Expedition
4. Is the STE/ICE-R worth investing in? If so, I'll suck it up and get one off ebay so there'll be one for use in the Nashville area.
5. I saw some references to the electrical schematic wall chart being available but never saw an outcome. Should I order this thing via the NSN so it too will be available for general use?
6. I read through the LOOONG post about commercially available grease vs. GAA. Short answer, is Mobil 1 good to go?

and finally my most troubling question:

7. As it was happily idling last night, (key in the run position, battery key on, throttle about halfway forward) after about 10 minutes of idling all of a sudden the rpms jumped up significantly like I was standing on the gas. The accelerator pedal wasn't really doing anything if I stepped on it, the side throttle wouldn't shut it off even if all the way forward, and turning the battery key to off didn't change it. When I turned the ignition switch/key it turned off the gauges and the throttle came back down to idle. This tells me that it has to be an electrical issue that was energized when the key was in the run position. The only theory I have that seems easy is if the switch by the backhoe was in the HI position.

Anyone have any thoughts at all? Thanks to everyone in advance, this group seems like a great group of folks.

SF!

Another Ahab · Sep 14, 2016

No answers for you, but here's this:

- Welcome from Virginia.

The FLU farm · Sep 14, 2016

Welcome, Skidpad.
Here is my free advice (and you know the value of such, right?).

1) I'm running Valvoline 15W-40 diesel oil, mostly because Napa often has it on sale.
2) I need to find out how to remove the backhoe, too, so the front mounted snow blower can use that hydraulic circuit. Off looks easy, reinstalling probably isn't.
5) We'll know in a couple of days if our honorable General Hood will become the proud owner of a few of those wall charts. Wish him luck, please.
6) Why not? I'm using the sticky, stinky, red Chevron with good results.
7) I had a similar "runaway" once, but it happened at startup. Blamed it on frozen electricals, or linkages, as stalling the engine was the only way to stop it.
It hasn't happened again, but on the other hand, ever since the rear switches have been covered when it's parked.

You'll likely get more intelligent answers from other in the next few days.

peakbagger · Sep 14, 2016

2. Does anyone have a link to a video or a simple procedure on how to remove the loader and backhoe?

I haven't seen a video but have read a few comments. The loader really needs a jack with a square post that pins into the square receptacle on the loader frame. There was a special service tool built for this but I haven't seen it for sale. I plan to buy a screw jack for a trailer one of these days and weld on a square tube. I have seen folks who rig up a jack, with blocks but this is asking for trouble if the jack falls over. The comments I have heard of the backhoe removal is that its real important to chain the arms that tie to the truck so they can not spread, apparently as the hydraulics settle, the arms can spread out making it nightmare to try to get things lined up again . By the way, its probably obvious that if the backhoe is removed with the loader in place, the truck is seriously imbalanced and dangerous to drive. Despite the warnings in the manuals it looks like driving without the loader but with the backhoe is possible (there is online video of someone driving to truck pull without the loader.

4. Is the STE/ICE-R worth investing in? If so, I'll suck it up and get one off ebay so there'll be one for use in the Nashville area

Hard to know but in my opinion its actually a pretty "dumb" device that mostly saves having to crawl under the truck to check something. Most of its functions can be replaced with a Digital multimeter. There is zero electrical diagnostics for the wiring associated with the system. It will be interesting if its on the electrical diagram. It may be interesting to do a pin out chart of the connector and just read the values with a DMM.

5. I saw some references to the electrical schematic wall chart being available but never saw an outcome. Should I order this thing via the NSN so it too will be available for general use?

Others have reported that the source, Freightliner of America is out of stock and can not get any more. Just because there is part number doesn't mean you can buy one. There are numerous third party entities that will show the part number but I expect they all are going to the same sources.

7. Runaway

It does sound like the auxiliary throttle is kicking on. When you were idling were you up to full pressure on the air system?. On mine the air cylinder wont ramp up the throttle until the air system is up to pressure which can take awhile. The backhoe switch will kick it on and the hydraulic tool switch will also kick it on independently. You can pull the fuse to the backend wiring, if I remember its a red one on the left of the right fuse box (when standing in front of the truck). I believe that will kill both of these switches. A general comment is that the throttle linkages are very complex and quite a few SEEs seem to have them damaged/misadjusted. I would at minimum consider spraying some lithium in all the pivot points. There is shaft that goes through a bushing on the back of the engine that apparently can bind.

Do yourself a favor and see if the auxiliary hydraulic cooling fans are functional out back, they can short out the same fuse but this will only happen when the hydraulics get warm enough to snap on the thermal switch on the fans.

General Hood · Sep 14, 2016

peakbagger said:
2. Does anyone have a link to a video or a simple procedure on how to remove the loader and backhoe?

I haven't seen a video but have read a few comments. The loader really needs a jack with a square post that pins into the square receptacle on the loader frame. There was a special service tool built for this but I haven't seen it for sale. I plan to buy a screw jack for a trailer one of these days and weld on a square tube. I have seen folks who rig up a jack, with blocks but this is asking for trouble if the jack falls over. The comments I have heard of the backhoe removal is that its real important to chain the arms that tie to the truck so they can not spread, apparently as the hydraulics settle, the arms can spread out making it nightmare to try to get things lined up again . By the way, its probably obvious that if the backhoe is removed with the loader in place, the truck is seriously imbalanced and dangerous to drive. Despite the warnings in the manuals it looks like driving without the loader but with the backhoe is possible (there is online video of someone driving to truck pull without the loader.

4. Is the STE/ICE-R worth investing in? If so, I'll suck it up and get one off ebay so there'll be one for use in the Nashville area

Hard to know but in my opinion its actually a pretty "dumb" device that mostly saves having to crawl under the truck to check something. Most of its functions can be replaced with a Digital multimeter. There is zero electrical diagnostics for the wiring associated with the system. It will be interesting if its on the electrical diagram. It may be interesting to do a pin out chart of the connector and just read the values with a DMM.

5. I saw some references to the electrical schematic wall chart being available but never saw an outcome. Should I order this thing via the NSN so it too will be available for general use?

Others have reported that the source, Freightliner of America is out of stock and can not get any more. Just because there is part number doesn't mean you can buy one. There are numerous third party entities that will show the part number but I expect they all are going to the same sources.

7. Runaway

It does sound like the auxiliary throttle is kicking on. When you were idling were you up to full pressure on the air system?. On mine the air cylinder wont ramp up the throttle until the air system is up to pressure which can take awhile. The backhoe switch will kick it on and the hydraulic tool switch will also kick it on independently. You can pull the fuse to the backend wiring, if I remember its a red one on the left of the right fuse box (when standing in front of the truck). I believe that will kill both of these switches. A general comment is that the throttle linkages are very complex and quite a few SEEs seem to have them damaged/misadjusted. I would at minimum consider spraying some lithium in all the pivot points. There is shaft that goes through a bushing on the back of the engine that apparently can bind.

Do yourself a favor and see if the auxiliary hydraulic cooling fans are functional out back, they can short out the same fuse but this will only happen when the hydraulics get warm enough to snap on the thermal switch on the fans.

Also to note: The throttle linkages seem to have a bad habit of sticking, especially where the linkage crosses over at the back side of the motor. I found that a good dousing with silicone spray, or other lubricant of choice helps free up that point of binding.

General Hood · Sep 14, 2016

Skidpad said:
Hello to the group! Newly minted owner of a SEE here. Just arrived last night. I think that I have finally been rewarded for all these years of saying 'when will the good guy ever get a break?' Because, although there are still some issues to go through, this beast is in fine shape. She even came with the full complement of hand tools! I've been combing this forum for a week now but I do have some questions. I apologize in advance if they have been answered already but I was unable to find them. I'm an old grunt so simple answers work best for me.

1. Is there a generally agreed upon engine oil for these other than the mil-spec listed in the TM?
2. Does anyone have a link to a video or a simple procedure on how to remove the loader and backhoe?
3. Is it common for the ignition switch to rotate almost freely? I think I just need to order a new one from Expedition
4. Is the STE/ICE-R worth investing in? If so, I'll suck it up and get one off ebay so there'll be one for use in the Nashville area.
5. I saw some references to the electrical schematic wall chart being available but never saw an outcome. Should I order this thing via the NSN so it too will be available for general use?
6. I read through the LOOONG post about commercially available grease vs. GAA. Short answer, is Mobil 1 good to go?

and finally my most troubling question:

7. As it was happily idling last night, (key in the run position, battery key on, throttle about halfway forward) after about 10 minutes of idling all of a sudden the rpms jumped up significantly like I was standing on the gas. The accelerator pedal wasn't really doing anything if I stepped on it, the side throttle wouldn't shut it off even if all the way forward, and turning the battery key to off didn't change it. When I turned the ignition switch/key it turned off the gauges and the throttle came back down to idle. This tells me that it has to be an electrical issue that was energized when the key was in the run position. The only theory I have that seems easy is if the switch by the backhoe was in the HI position.

Anyone have any thoughts at all? Thanks to everyone in advance, this group seems like a great group of folks.

SF!

BTW welcome to the site. How about posting a few photos of that new SEE acquisition of yours?

Skidpad · Sep 14, 2016

Guys, thanks for the quick and informative responses. I'm going to really break it all down today since I didn't have any daylight once it got here yesterday.

Another Ahab, thanks for the warm welcome!

FLU farm, I really appreciate the info on the oil since I ordered the filters last night. I'm anxiously awaiting the results of the schematics exploration. I currently have one of the NSN chasers saying that they can get it but I am understandably skeptical...

Peakbagger, I've heard so much back and forth on the STE. I know that there are definitely more manual ways to get the same or better results by climbing around the vehicle. I guess there's still a bit of the government indoctrination left in my BHG that nags at me. I mean, after all, if the government said it was the recommended procedure, they couldn't possibly be wrong...right?

In regards to the schematic, even if one person manages to get a copy then the rest of us may be able to benefit from said wonderful knowledge.

In regards to the runaway, it did happen very closely around the time when I think the air came up to full pressure. This will be the first thing I check tonight. This lovely lady is in such good shape that it wouldn't surprise me to find that I just had the switch in the wrong position. I'll report back.

In regards to the loader/backhoe question. I fully intend to go down this path both for disconnect and reconnect. When I do this I will thoroughly document the procedure both written and with video. I may also do a video of the ROPS removal and cab tilt when it's time to get around to such nonsense.

Thanks again guys!

The FLU farm · Sep 14, 2016

Skidpad said:
In regards to the loader/backhoe question. I fully intend to go down this path both for disconnect and reconnect. When I do this I will thoroughly document the procedure both written and with video. I may also do a video of the ROPS removal and cab tilt when it's time to get around to such nonsense.

I'm guessing that the backhoe removal/reinstall won't be all that different than on a Kubota BX25D (which is tiny), just scarier.
One thing I have yet to figure out is how the heck to store the backhoe while it's off. Will probably build some sort of parking stand for it.
Ordered a quick attach adapter for the loader today, which is the first obstacle in the snow blower conversion process.
Good looking SEE you got!

Bikers33 · Sep 14, 2016

Skidpad said:
2. Does anyone have a link to a video or a simple procedure on how to remove the loader and backhoe?

SF!

Put the backhoe into a 3 point stance (2 outriggers and the bucket). Remove snap rings from the 2 top pins and bash them out. Use outriggers to make it easier. Unlatch two bottom locks (with the lever on the side of the truck). Disconnect hyd. hoses and join them together.. Block underneath the center so it wont sag. Join the hoses on the back of the truck as well.....enjoy FUN MODE!!

Bikers33 · Sep 14, 2016

And the loader is even easier.

Skidpad · Sep 14, 2016

Good evening all, I just got back from a down and dirty clean up/ troubleshooting night. So, yeah, Gunny dumb*$$ had the rpm switch set on high. Once that little detail was sorted out the beast idled just as nice as you please for an hour. I did a lot of cleanup, secured the doghouse inside the cab, checked light and gauge operation, and then bravely engaged the PTO. Luck was on my side and everything worked as designed, I released the boom lock, raised the boom, got into the seat and deployed the hoe as designed. Only downside here, i fell prey to what has been mentioned before and I was unable to fully retract the boom back into travel position. So, rather than fight that battle as the light was drawing down, I placed the bucket on the deck (that's ground for the non-Marine types here ;-)

) and went on with better things to do. i inventoried the tools and arranged the tool compartments. Finally, I went through the lights and discovered that although my rear indicator lights (the brake lights) light up, they do not respond to the brake, the turn signal, or the hazards. However, the rear work lights, the interior dome light, and the forward lights (both positions) are all fully functional. So, all in all a very successful night. Once I can get the hoe retracted (with a come along I guess) I'll be down to obtaining a spare tire and some touch up paint.

One question, does anyone have any experience with the kind of connector that is used on the two air accessory connector that can be used to air up the tires? I want to put on some kind of quick connect coupling but this fitting has me baffled. Thanks again for all the help. Steadily walking towards getting this baby back into combat readiness.

Here are some various shots of the beast tonight. Sorry I got all caught up working and not snapping progress photos...

Bikers33 · Sep 15, 2016

One question, does anyone have any experience with the kind of connector that is used on the two air accessory connector that can be used to air up the tires? I want to put on some kind of quick connect coupling but this fitting has me baffled. Thanks again for all the help.

Which air connectors? The 2 glad hands front and rear? The FLU has airline chucks left and right... one on the air tank and the other is on the regulator on the right side. You can make up an airline with a (RED) glad hand and a quick connect on the opposite end. Hook the ( red glad hand ) to the one on the truck then push in the ( trailer charge) button between the seats.. Bada Bing, faster fill that way too because that is supplied by the bigger air tank. more volume

Bikers33 · Sep 15, 2016

Nice tools by the way, mine were not there. Your truck must have come from somewhere other than Texarkana, the tools from there seem to have wings, or are hijacked by the Rats that eat all the wiring. The explanation that I received was that GP rarely, if ever,get the trucks with tools. :roll:

Yeah.......

The FLU farm · Sep 15, 2016

Skidpad, looks like you got a grease gun, which I didn't. On the other hand, I got the hose for airing up tires.
But as Bikers33 points out, it'll most likely be more efficient to use the glad hands. You can buy a setup already made for airing up tires at a truck stop, if you don't feel like making your own.

For getting the backhoe to lock back in place, you need to let the cylinders go over center. In other words, pull the lever until the boom almost comes to a stop, then push the lever forward.
It make take a few tries before getting the hang of it. I tend to run the engine at about 900 rpm when doing it, so it happens less violently.

General Hood · Sep 15, 2016

Skidpad said:
Good evening all, I just got back from a down and dirty clean up/ troubleshooting night. So, yeah, Gunny dumb*$$ had the rpm switch set on high. Once that little detail was sorted out the beast idled just as nice as you please for an hour. I did a lot of cleanup, secured the doghouse inside the cab, checked light and gauge operation, and then bravely engaged the PTO. Luck was on my side and everything worked as designed, I released the boom lock, raised the boom, got into the seat and deployed the hoe as designed. Only downside here, i fell prey to what has been mentioned before and I was unable to fully retract the boom back into travel position. So, rather than fight that battle as the light was drawing down, I placed the bucket on the deck (that's ground for the non-Marine types here) and went on with better things to do. i inventoried the tools and arranged the tool compartments. Finally, I went through the lights and discovered that although my rear indicator lights (the brake lights) light up, they do not respond to the brake, the turn signal, or the hazards. However, the rear work lights, the interior dome light, and the forward lights (both positions) are all fully functional. So, all in all a very successful night. Once I can get the hoe retracted (with a come along I guess) I'll be down to obtaining a spare tire and some touch up paint.

One question, does anyone have any experience with the kind of connector that is used on the two air accessory connector that can be used to air up the tires? I want to put on some kind of quick connect coupling but this fitting has me baffled. Thanks again for all the help. Steadily walking towards getting this baby back into combat readiness.

Here are some various shots of the beast tonight. Sorry I got all caught up working and not snapping progress photos...View attachment 643913 View attachment 643914 View attachment 643915 View attachment 643916 View attachment 643917 View attachment 643918 View attachment 643919 View attachment 643920 View attachment 643921

It's good to see another FLU419 in the Steel Soldier Ranks. Did you acquire your SEE from the Texarkana holding facility?

Skidpad · Sep 15, 2016

Guys, thanks so much for all of the great info. This group rocks! [thumbzup]

FLU Farm, I think I get what i was doing wrong. I was trying to let the dipper come down hard against the boom to try and rock it over. What I understand you to be saying is to pull the boom lever until it is almost upright with the hole over the transport locking pin (separated by a few inches) then push the dipper lever forward hard making the dipper swing out and push the boom back, is that right? Alternatively, I can also try the come along trick but I'd rather let the machine do the work without interference. Once again, I'm a knuckledragging grunt so I take a minute to learn the most basic things. Doesn't make it any easier that I'm a visual learner, hence the request for a video of everything.

Bikers33 & FLU farm, thanks for the insight into the air hose issue. I'll head to a local truck stop today and grab a gladhand to connect to a NPT quick connect. I already have a couple of hoses set up with those fittings.

So, I woke up this morning to find another email confirming that the electrical schematic can be obtained within 2 weeks or less. I'm ready to pull the trigger on this unless you guys think the group can obtain one otherwise.

Bikers, to your point about the tools walking away, I think that may be why I got the ones I did because the guy who delivered it (awesome dude BTW) talked to the guys there @ Red River and they made sure that he saw all of the tools and mentioned something about how they had been 'accused' earlier of not delivering the vehicles with their correct setup. Go figure...

Thanks again guys! Here's a picture from this morning with it in all it's glory. Spray paint in en route to cover up the SN plastered everywhere...

Go Go Gadget FLU 419 · Sep 15, 2016

Hey there Skidpad, glad to SEE ya join us! Tennessee huh? I did a job over there about a year ago. Torinos Steakhouse in Springfield has the best steak I've ever gotten from a store, without a doubt! Anyways, I know I'm late, but I'll give my opinions.

1. Is there a generally agreed upon engine oil for these other than the mil-spec listed in the TM?
I doubt it, but I use Lucas Oil 15W-40 #10076, for pre 2007 diesel engines.

2. Does anyone have a link to a video or a simple procedure on how to remove the loader and backhoe?
Seems like I've seen one, not hard once you see how. Don't forget to disconnect the hoses everytime! Probably a picture in the TM's.

3. Is it common for the ignition switch to rotate almost freely? I think I just need to order a new one from Expedition
Don't think so, but there is probably a nut to tighten on the other side of the dash.

4. Is the STE/ICE-R worth investing in? If so, I'll suck it up and get one off ebay so there'll be one for use in the Nashville area.
From what I understand, no.

5. I saw some references to the electrical schematic wall chart being available but never saw an outcome. Should I order this thing via the NSN so it too will be available for general use?
If you can get one, YES! I pulled all my strings, nothing happened. If General Hood, or anyone else for that matter, comes through with one, I got 20 bucks (or whatever it takes) on a high resolution digital image of it.

6. I read through the LOOONG post about commercially available grease vs. GAA. Short answer, is Mobil 1 good to go?
I don't know, but I figure I can't go wrong with Lucas Red & Tacky, so I got 30 tubes and a designated grease gun.

And for #7., yes, that would be an idle switch somewhere, happened to me to. And it didn't blow my alternator or relay when I shut it down the wrong way, with the key.

Yea, the hoe wants you to jerk the lever the other way as it begins to slow down, and you have to have it moving a little bit to have enough kinetic energy to carry it.

If you want to sell/trade them bits and/or jackhammer, you just let me know.

I've got the tire inflater hose, looks like it screws on to one of the fittings that are covered with a rubber lid by that mess of tubing between the air tanks.

General Hood was just being polite, it's actually called Texarkana FEEDING facility. They fatten up rats for making cat food. :deadhorse:

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