Amazing! Ever notice how many threads are locked in this Forum?

July 1st, 2014.



Gentlemen & Ladies:


Ever notice how many threads are locked in the "Politics affecting the MV Hobby" Forum? I do believe that it is outstanding proof of the resiliency of the human mind, and perhaps also of its inability to accept change! I never realized that we have so many members on here with an ax to grind over this or that issue, and it seems that we often lack the ability to disagree in a civilized manner, perhaps indicating a greater, deeper malaise in the body politic or just the plain social order.

Considering that we pursue, in many instances, the preservation of machinery not generally designed or built for consumer use, and we revel in that fact. But it also has amazed me how many members are willing to bend or push common sense to the breaking point by either not maintaining the vehicles correctly, or taking chances with them that could redound to ill effect as regards the ownership of these vehicles (Gimpy Robb is exonerated, as he is the past master of putting large vehicles on their sides in order to locate ALL the grease fittings).

So, perhaps, gentlemen and ladies, we should be more considerate both of our fellow road users, and of our fellow hobbyists, and make sure that we had done our pre trip inspections correctly, or have red lined any vehicle that doesn't pass the pre trip until it is correctly repaired. And, no matter how trying the other drivers are out there on the road, remember to retain your genial composure and to return well for ill usage, consider at all times what you might do in an unexpected situation, and we will all benefit from the experience and the effort.

Have a Good Holiday coming up, and let's see if we can retire a few of the moderators locks to the electronic lock bin at GL.

Honestly I believe so many get locked because it is a political forum, but political posts are against the rules. VERY grey and blurry lines as to what is too much when it comes to talking politics on here. What some idiot on the hill does may affect what we do in our hobby, but we almost can't post how we feel about it. And then there are cases where you can post how you feel but some people get irate or post inappropriate things and then that gets the thread locked. I have to admit that it certainly is frustrating not being able to voice one's opinion on some matters here even when you know that most of the membership, and at least a good portion of the moderators feel the same about them, but the rules are the rules. Sometimes it is easier to lay down and submit than to fight for what is right.

Profoundly observant and exceptionally well written.
Good job!

It's like playing Whack-A-Mole when you have politics creep into a thread. Sure, we can keep it open but someone will post something out of line and the post can be deleted but the next member will pop up do it all over again.

If you want a perfect example of a "thread related to MV politics" just look at the thread related to the registration and title thread for Georgia. Pure political thread (obviously since they got a law passed in their state house) but it maintained civility the whole time and was successful in the end. Today they celebrate July 1 because of the hard work of the Georgia crew.

Take the other side of the coin, any discussion of the recent auction site we all know and hate and you get comments that run the gamut, from global warming to aliens. Not helpful, not needed and against what the site owner wants to maintain here.

I agree with Kyle on being civilized in our discussions.

I agree as well. No matter what your opinion on any issue is, there is no reason not to be civil in the discussion.

“We refuse to believe that which we don't understand.”
― Napoleon Hill,

USAFSS-ColdWarrior said:

Profoundly observant and exceptionally well written.
Good job!

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+1

Jeepsinker said:

I agree as well. No matter what your opinion on any issue is, there is no reason not to be civil in the discussion.

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I'm willing to bet someone will be along eventually to demonstrate why things get locked.

As one who has posted extensively on the Politics section, I will chime in too.

Seems to me that politics in this country have become very divided. Let's face it, almost half the country disagrees with you, no matter what the topic is. But we all live on the same little ball, which makes compromise necessary.

On S.S., there are lots of different folks all trying to get along together in the interest of old green vehicles. The Politics section gives us a place to discuss legislation that is important to the preservation of our hobby. The problem seems to come up when somebody starts badmouthing someone or some party or even just the way things are. So it's up to us to try and keep it civil. From what I've seen, the mods seem to understand the controversial nature of things, and often give a warning when things start getting out of hand. It's often ignored, and then the lock comes down.

there is no reason not to be civil in the discussion

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I agree fully. Use tact, and be courteous.

Sometimes it is easier to lay down and submit than to fight for what is right.

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This is true too, IMHO. But who wants to die laying down. Better to die fighting for what's right. If it's right, then it's worth fighting for. That's what got GA their new law, and it's what got WI our new laws too. THAT's why we need the Politics section.

So take care of it. Don't be an a$$ and start up with your own personal rant that will get the Political threads locked. Respect each other's opinions and comments, especially if you disagree with them. It will do us all more good.

Patracy - just waiting for that moment to unleash itself once again.

In my opinion there is a difference between the political views that are enunciated as conjecture about the GL issue, and civility. I read all 12 pages of conjecture pertaining to the GL issue and never once read a post I'd classify as uncivil. Some of the conjecture may have been "over the top", but seemed harmless to me.

As I understand it, the threads were combined for the reason that they were covering the identical issue and the mother thread was locked for being a discussion of pure speculation. If there is dissension over those reasons, then so be it, I say.


Rick

Yes, the GL threads were combined and locked because people were giving all kinds of crazy reasons as to why the trucks were pulled when none of the reasons had any proof to back it up.

Giving questionable info about why the trucks were pulled just gets people stirred up about something that may be false and it causes a lot of arguments.

Being a mod for the short time I have has been a eye opener for me. You can either close or delete a thread and put out a couple of small fires or let it get way out of hand and have a big firestorm. We spend enough time putting out the small fires, the added mess of dealing with a firestorm is just too much when it can be avoided.

What everyone is forgetting is that the speculation thread on what happened recently is not about politics related to MVs. Wisconsin and Georgia events ARE politics related MV threads.

Know the difference or face the inevitable thread closure.

July 21st, 2014.

Thank you again for a good point Mr. Bradley as to the difference between speculative reasoning and true knowledge, there is a considerable difference between the two. I prefer Occam's Razor, inasmuch as when you pare aware all of that which is not the truth, what you have remaining is incontestably the truth. Also, please permit me to say that we are going to need another basket of locks, as I have noticed even more threads in this forum locked out! Good going gents, the electronic green lock industry will be thanking all of us for the increased business.


Have a Good Week!

Politics are part of everyday life. You can't post about politics because its against the rules. You can't post a link to an eBay auction because it is against the rules. No offense to the moderation staff as its your site and you can do what you want. I will offer one suggestion maybe you should lighten up a bit. I know tons of guys that all say the same thing and they just stay away. I have never understood the no links to an auction rule. Someone said once that it opens up litigation or something of the sort, I don't remember exactly what. That is totally false, I have tried enough cases to know better. I personally don't see a problem with it but there again you can disallow whatever. One thing I have found puzzling is there has been no conversation about the DOD suspending sales of surplus trucks to civilians, local and state governments effective July 1st 2014 yet we are all here about military vehicles. If there was any it was short lived or closed. This place is rather informative but I can tell you it would be a lot more lively if some folks would be a little more laid back.

Don't direct someone to read 2000 pages from a TM when it would take you 2 seconds to give the guy the information he seeks. I spent 2 hours the other day looking for the method of setting the valve rockers on a MEP-003a generator via google the other day because I figured someone would give me the line go look in the TM. That would have encompassed looking through 800 pages of books to get the info which incidentally I did do and ended up findin the info in none other than an Onan service manual because the TM's I found didn't get that deep into it. Bottom line is a 20,000 pound truck will kill someone. If someone asks a question no matter how trivial it may seem to you or me it obviously isn't trivial to the asker. Don't just say hey its in the book go find it, tell them where it is in the book or just answer the question. In today's society people are not as savy with mechanical stuff in the digital age as they once were. Folks get discouraged and stop askin for help, pretty soon they find themselves in a pickle.

No disrespect to anyone here but it turns people away when you get the holier than art thou attitude. You came into this world with nothing and you will leave with nothing. The question remains what you will leave? Will it be positive or negative. So far I have made a positive mark as a person that will help his fellow man. Its all up to you. Personally for me life is to short to worry about petty things like I am a conservative but your a liberal or this person is right and I am wrong. Treat someone else how you yourself would treat your own mother.

CNKILLERCLOWN said:

One thing I have found puzzling is there has been no conversation about the DOD suspending sales of surplus trucks to civilians, local and state governments effective July 1st 2014 yet we are all here about military vehicles. If there was any it was short lived or closed.

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That's the thread that's been talked about here getting combined and then locked. It was locked because there was no solid information just conjecture. And the deal with not posting auction listings has to do with the potential appearance of collusion or price fixing.

No offense meant, but you've been a member for 3 months. There's been a lot of threads about a lot of things that you obviously haven't seen. And a LOT of threads such as "where do I get a CUCV key" resulting in "do a search," "read the TMs," etc. After a while it gets real old having people ask the same question with no effort on their part to find an answer themselves. Yes it might be easier just giving them the answer but where do you stop? A little self accountability should be required on everyone's part.

mkcoen said:

That's the thread that's been talked about here getting combined and then locked. It was locked because there was no solid information just conjecture. And the deal with auction listings has to do with the potential appearance of collusion or price fixing.

No offense meant, but you've been a member for 3 months. There's been a lot of threads about a lot of things that you obviously haven't seen. And a LOT of threads such as "where do I get a CUCV key" resulting in "do a search," "read the TMs," etc.

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I have been here a lot longer than three months. I signed up 5 or 6 years ago and then stayed out of pocket for a while. I couldn't remember my screen name and didnt have the email I signed up with so had to start over. The auction I was referring to was a link to a fixed price buy it now, no chance of price fixing or collusion when you can't bid on it.

The read the TM remark was made in response to someone telling me that when it could have taken 20 seconds to say do this and done.

CNKILLERCLOWN said:

The auction I was referring to was a link to a fixed price buy it now, no chance of price fixing or collusion when you can't bid on it.

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So the rule should be "no auctions except for..." Some people try to bend (if not break) the rules any time there is a rule around. It's a whole lot easier just to have 1 blanket, unambiguous rule so no one can play the "I didn't realize it meant xyz too." The great thing about this country is that if you don't like the rules here you can always start your own site and have any, or no, rules you want.

CNKILLERCLOWN said:

Politics are part of everyday life. You can't post about politics because its against the rules. You can't post a link to an eBay auction because it is against the rules. No offense to the moderation staff as its your site and you can do what you want. I will offer one suggestion maybe you should lighten up a bit. I know tons of guys that all say the same thing and they just stay away.

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Eating is a part of life, too. I guess you're saying we should have a forum for recipes.

CNKILLERCLOWN said:

I have never understood the no links to an auction rule. Someone said once that it opens up litigation or something of the sort, I don't remember exactly what. That is totally false, I have tried enough cases to know better. I personally don't see a problem with it but there again you can disallow whatever.

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The auction policy was discussed ad nauseum, for months. Collusion was only one aspect of it.

How do you think the guy feels who is bidding on a wrecker and on Thrsday morning, some other guy, who has no intention whatsoever of bidding on it, starts a thread saying "HEY, I DON"T HAVE THE MONEY TO BID ON THIS, BUT MAYBE ONE OF YA'LL DOES, HERE'S A LINK TO A WRECKER ON GL!".

There were other issues at well (all discussed out in the open) that explain how the current policies came to be. Perhaps if you were searching instead of just asking the question, you'd know this.

But I did take a lot longer than 2 seconds to explain this.

CNKILLERCLOWN said:

One thing I have found puzzling is there has been no conversation about the DOD suspending sales of surplus trucks to civilians, local and state governments effective July 1st 2014 yet we are all here about military vehicles. If there was any it was short lived or closed. This place is rather informative but I can tell you it would be a lot more lively if some folks would be a little more laid back.

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Well, there is a thread concerning this and it has 230+ posts.

And it is currently locked because we are waiting for solid concrete info from inside sources. If you have a memo, an email, etc., that is verifiable, you send it to a moderator and it'll get published.

The reason it's locked is because all the thread was becoming was tin-foil hat speculation "OH MY GOD, OBAMA IS COMING FOR OUR TRUCKS".

Once we have solid, verifiable information about the cause of the stoppage, then we will formulate a plan of action along with the MVPA and we will let everyone know what they can do about this.

CNKILLERCLOWN said:

Don't direct someone to read 2000 pages from a TM when it would take you 2 seconds to give the guy the information he seeks.

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Well, if I know the answer to a question, how the heck do you think I got it? I read the TM. So you expect me to read it so I can save you the trouble of having to read it?

Come on man: It is not an outlandish request to ask that people operating 40 year old trucks that weigh 15K lbs to read the darned manual. That should be the first thing you do. It is simply unacceptable to have not familiarized yourself with the TM's for your vehicle or equipment.

And, like everything else on this forum, this topic has been beat into the ground and if you'd either been here for any time or searched before complaining, you'd already know all the reasons that we ask that people read the TM's and search the site before asking. And they're valid reasons.

mkcoen said:

........The great thing about this country is that if you don't like the rules here you can always start your own site and have any, or no, rules you want.

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You are absolutely correct anyone can do that. However the context of my original post was about this very if you don't like it do your own thing attitude. As I said previously if you choose to have that outlook its is well within your right. This is however a force that keeps people away from the resources available here. Don't take a offense to what I said. Site feedback isn't always going to be favorable. It does not mean you have to act on it if you don't want to. I don't care either way. I was pointing out what I saw. It does not mean I think the less of you or anyone else. Other than those experiences I have found a lot of useful stuff here.

Clinto no need to bounce off the wall. I am not complaining. I run a 20,000 ton freight train for a living. I am mechanically inclined and would read a manual if needed. One can't be expected to know everything about each and every part of every truck. Most of us don't have the time to read expansive books about a subject and at any rate it is a proven fact you don't really retain the volume of text you read. I work 7 days a week and have most of the time a limited means to download a TM to read it. I made the suggestion based on that fact that some folks have a limited ability to just go read it.

I am a locomotive engineer and a helicopter pilot. I have read my fair share of books. However practical experience is worth way more than you can learn from a book. I can tell you when you fly a helicopter that when you move the cyclic you have to move the collective but when you move the collective you have to step on the pedal you counteract the torque. You can listen to me tell you that all day long but you would probably be better off if I was sitting in the seat next to you to help you learn it.

All I am suggesting is be a little more friendly to new guys or people with questions. That isn't too much to ask is it?

Moderators are here at the request and to help the owner of the web site. We don't get to do whatever we want.

If you have tried any cases it is safe to assume then that you are a practicing attorney. Discussing auctions is against the rules and this is one example why: http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f1000/1068.htm

People aren't that technically savvy with older stuff in the new modern era. You mean like using CTRL-F in a PDF formatted file?

I would want to see it in the manual before taking it as gospel someone from the Internet telling me the wrong thing to do.



Unfortunately my Mother is in a nursing and yes, I treat her the same as the rest of you. She has rules as well and myself along with the rest of the family work hard to make sure she follows them. Harsh? No. Life and she loves me for it.