German STORCH of WWII

Old WWII joke.

CARNAC said:

So the invading German Army can march in the shade.

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CARNAC said:

Old WWII joke.

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Well, yeah, not much in the way of any new WWII jokes.

But funny how fighting-and-shade is almost as old as time, and inseparable (kind of like peanut butter-and-jelly, thunder-and-lightning; even sword-and-shield).

There were the Spartans and the Medes:

- Dienekes or Dieneces (Greek: Διηνέκης) was a Spartan soldier who fought and was killed at the Battle of Thermopylae in 480 BC. He was acclaimed the bravest of all the Greeks who fought in that battle. Herodotus related the following anecdote about Dienekes:
"(...) the Spartan Dienekes is said to have proved himself the best man of all, the same who, as they report, uttered this saying before they engaged battle with the Medes:--being informed by one of the men of Trachis that when the Barbarians discharged their arrows they obscured the light of the sun by the multitude of the arrows, so great was the number of their host, he was not dismayed by this, but making small account of the number of the Medes, he said that their guest from Trachis brought them very good news, for if the Medes obscured the light of the sun, the battle against them wouldbe in the shade and not in the sun." - Histories, 7.226 [1]

Then there were the last words of General Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson, following Chancerllorsville:

"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees."

And contrary to what one might think, there's absolutely nothing shady about any of all this here.

The actual truth behind the shade lined roads is Napoleon had the trees planted so his army could march in the shade. The Germans just returned the favor and reversed the flow 3 times over the following 150 years.

CARNAC said:

Why are the roads in Belgium and France lined with trees?

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Barrman said:

The actual truth behind the shade lined roads is Napoleon had the trees planted so his army could march in the shade. The Germans just returned the favor and reversed the flow 3 times over the following 150 years.

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Going out on a limb ​here suggesting this is an opportune moment to turn over a new leaf and branch out into a topic rooted ​entirely in another area altogether, and that would be:

- Membership

In the

The Fieseler Storch was the last dogfight victim of the western front. Pilot Duanes Francies and his observer, Lieutenant William Martin, of the 5th US Army Division, spotted a Storch circling below them while looking for ground targets in their Piper Cub. Diving on the Storch, the two men opened fire with their Colt .45s and the plane spiraled to the ground. After a short gun battle, Francies and his observer took the two Germans into custody. Lt. Martin was awarded the Air Medal for his part in the fight, but Francies would have to wait until the story was reported in Cornelius Ryan's book "The Last Battle," to finally be awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. The USAF was 22 years late.

There is some debate if this was the only Luftwaffe aircraft shot down with a pistol in WWII. It was not the only enemy aircraft shot down by a M1911A1 as there are two unconfirmed but highly likely incidents noted on the internet. One was a zero shot down by an aircrewman in a parachute. One was a P51 pilot with jammed guns shooting down a ME109.

An Exclusive Club

Another Ahab said:

Going out on a limb ​here suggesting this is an opportune moment to turn over a new leaf and branch out into a topic rooted ​entirely in another area altogether, and that would be:

- Membership

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Lining up at the Door, we've seen some Big Hitters:

- Mussolini (ITALY)

- Churchill, Broadhurst, Montgomery, and Coningham (UK)

- Eisenhower (implied, but not confirmed: USA)

- Rommell, Reitsch, and Others (GERMANY)

And a few others expected to arrive, before Last Call.

Another Ahab said:

Going out on a limb ​here suggesting this is an opportune moment to turn over a new leaf and branch out into a topic rooted ​entirely in another area altogether, and that would be:

- Membership

In the

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Another Ahab said:

Lining up at the Door, we've seen some Big Hitters:


And a few others expected to arrive, before Last Call.

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Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering, in-the-House!!

Oh, that Hermann! Word is that he had his nails done with a special manicure just for the occasion:

CARNAC said:

The Fieseler Storch was the last dogfight victim of the western front. Pilot Duanes Francies and his observer, Lieutenant William Martin, of the 5th US Army Division, spotted a Storch circling below them while looking for ground targets in their Piper Cub. Diving on the Storch, the two men opened fire with their Colt .45s and the plane spiraled to the ground. After a short gun battle, Francies and his observer took the two Germans into custody. Lt. Martin was awarded the Air Medal for his part in the fight, but Francies would have to wait until the story was reported in Cornelius Ryan's book "The Last Battle," to finally be awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. The USAF was 22 years late.

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That would make this the very LAST dogfight of the entire war in Europe then, wouldn't it?

Seeing as the Russians had already rolled up the Eastern Front, and actually got to Berlin first (ahead of the Allies on the Western Front), isn't that right?

Is this possibly ANOTHER highlight of the Storch story, then?!

Yeah, I'd never realized just how...intense Goering's tendencies were until I saw color footage of him in his custom-designed sky-blue uniform. Carefully manicured nails are no surprise at all. Interestingly, he was apparently a pretty good pursuit pilot in WWI, which means he both outranked and had more practical experience than his boss in WWII.

In an ironic coincidence, this anniversary was featured on the HISTORY CHANNEL's daily email called THIS DAY IN HISTORY.....

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-...y.com/this-day-in-history/herman-goering-dies

"Herman Goering Dies - 10/15/1946"

steelypip said:

Yeah, I'd never realized just how...intense Goering's tendencies were until I saw color footage of him in his custom-designed sky-blue uniform. Carefully manicured nails are no surprise at all. Interestingly, he was apparently a pretty good pursuit pilot in WWI, which means he both outranked and had more practical experience than his boss in WWII.

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It seems like, to the man , everyone in the top Nazi leadership was about a half-bubble off plumb:

- But then, in retrospect, that's not too much of a surprise, really.

Well excepting maybe Speer, but then he was an Architect and that carries its own issues.

I've read Speer's memoir, which I found fascinating. He spent a long time in Spandau thinking about why the entire civilized world had decided he needed to spend a long time in Spandau. I think he was probably the only one in the inner circle who was both smart enough and introspective enough to really question his (and their) actions after the fact.

I think there's a sort of Faustus story here, with Hitler as Mephistopheles and Speer as Dr. Faustus. Hitler offered him opportunities that few architects could resist - all he had to do was sell his soul.

Yes, they were all at least somewhat crazy. Hitler was an amazing enabler too with an enormous ego - it made for a very big reality distortion field, which pushed the craziness further than it otherwise could have gone, and pulled an otherwise fairly rational architect/engineer into the madness.

Back on topic, this 'we can do anything' mentality lead to all kinds of hardcore engineering advances. The storch was a relatively minor one, but there were also things like the Peenemunde rocket program and the jet fighters and bombers that were 5-10 years ahead of the 'natural' state of the art at the time.

Although I hate to say it, Hitler was probably ONE (emphasis added) of the best communicators in history. How else could someone convince a group of people to slaughter so many others.

My next statement doesn't necessarily apply to this specific topic but in our recent time, never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

CARNAC said:

Although I hate to say it, Hitler was probably ONE (emphasis added) of the best communicators in history. How else could someone convince a group of people to slaughter so many others.

My next statement doesn't necessarily apply to this specific topic but in our recent time, never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

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And he managed to do all of that without television:

- Of course, the Party had the "brownshirts"

Now THAT was a pretty good substitute…right?

Another Ahab said:

And he managed to do all of that without television...

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The third reich's expertise at media and image management was cutting edge. They didn't need TV, but if it had been available they would have used it mercelessly as well. They had Leni Riefenstahl making compelling propaganda movies, Hitler's amazing speechifying in front of cheering crowds on every radio in the country, and Goebbels making sure that the reich's message always had pride of place in print, film, or broadcast 'news.'

Early Prototype

steelypip said:

Back on topic, this 'we can do anything' mentality lead to all kinds of hardcore engineering advances. The storch was a relatively minor one, but there were also things like the Peenemunde rocket program and the jet fighters and bombers that were 5-10 years ahead of the 'natural' state of the art at the time.

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Also remember that the ridiculously punitive nature of the Treaty of Versailles virtually guaranteed WWII. Hitler happened to be a motivated and charismatic man with a plan, and showed up at just the right historical moment to make it all happen. His looniness wasn't really that evident at first, but manifested itself more and more as time went by, and by then it was too late to stop him.

Toward the end, I do believe the Allies tried NOT to assassinate him because 1- he was a great villain to hate from a propaganda viewpoint; and 2- if they whacked him, somebody capable might have replaced him and begun to manage the war properly (from the German perspective), which would have made things a lot more difficult. The Allies wanted an unconditional surrender, rather than a negotiated one which is what would have happened with a sensible man at the helm. They knew Hitler wouldn't surrender, and he was also an incompetent military commander.

Cheers

Very well put.

Another Ahab said:

It seems like, to the man , everyone in the top Nazi leadership was about a half-bubble off plumb:

- But then, in retrospect, that's not too much of a surprise, really.

Well excepting maybe Speer, but then he was an Architect and that carries its own issues.

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steelypip said:

I've read Speer's memoir, which I found fascinating. He spent a long time in Spandau thinking about why the entire civilized world had decided he needed to spend a long time in Spandau. I think he was probably the only one in the inner circle who was both smart enough and introspective enough to really question his (and their) actions after the fact.

I think there's a sort of Faustus story here, with Hitler as Mephistopheles and Speer as Dr. Faustus. Hitler offered him opportunities that few architects could resist - all he had to do was sell his soul.

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Not to excuse the man for participating in the Crime, but I'm not so sure that Speer ever actually "drank the (Nazi) Kool-Aid"; it was something else; like steelypip says:

- Sort of offering an alcoholic the choice between 1) Baby formula, or 2) Bourbon.

- To be an Architect under a Dictator: NO Zoning Law, NO Historical Review Board, NO Project Design Committee, NO Urban Master Plan; an Unlimited Mandate to Create Monumental Architecture, with absolutely NO restrictions whatsoever.

Nobody can be much surprised that the man did not react by saying: "Uhm….no, don't want that; go away, no thanks".