Good afternoon, I ran into a problem with the hmv laws. Our local county Mountie is saying that occasional personal use is 3 to 4 times a year. I don't use my truck everyday but merely once a week at best. Has anybody else ran into this problem? Also this is in Wisconsin. Thanks
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What is occasional personal use in WI?
- Thread starter DoubleA
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A lot of good information on wisconsin MV laws in this thread.
Good Change Coming In Wisconsin
What model truck do you have ?
Good Change Coming In Wisconsin
What model truck do you have ?
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I would have a problem with that. I drive mine every weekend. If I only drove it 3 times a year I would most likely be fixing seals then driving. They like to get out and run.
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How much you can drive it is a grey area . There is no defined number so it's up to the LEO for his opinion and then the Judge to decide. Your best bet would be to talk to a local lawyer , the first visit is usually free.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/vehicles/personal/special/histmilitary.htm
A historic military vehicle (HMV) is a vehicle manufactured for use in any country’s military forces and maintained to accurately represent its military design and markings with no alterations. An HMV may be an auto, truck, trailer or motorcycle of any size and weight but cannot be a tracked vehicle (one that runs on continuous tracks or a combination of wheels and tracks). Historic military vehicles manufactured for the U.S. may be of any age to be eligible for HMV license plates. Imported historic military vehicles must be at least 25 years old to be eligible for HMV registration.
Historic military vehicle registration allows operation to and from special occasions, such as parades, display events, club activities, exhibitions and tours. Operation is also allowed for occasional personal use as well as testing, maintenance and storage purposes. The operator of an HMV must have a valid regular driver license; some HMVs may also require the operator to have a valid commercial driver license. The operator must follow all traffic laws. Vehicles with HMV license plates cannot be used for regular transportation.
Edit : It is never a good idea to take legal advice from a internet forum .
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/vehicles/personal/special/histmilitary.htm
A historic military vehicle (HMV) is a vehicle manufactured for use in any country’s military forces and maintained to accurately represent its military design and markings with no alterations. An HMV may be an auto, truck, trailer or motorcycle of any size and weight but cannot be a tracked vehicle (one that runs on continuous tracks or a combination of wheels and tracks). Historic military vehicles manufactured for the U.S. may be of any age to be eligible for HMV license plates. Imported historic military vehicles must be at least 25 years old to be eligible for HMV registration.
Historic military vehicle registration allows operation to and from special occasions, such as parades, display events, club activities, exhibitions and tours. Operation is also allowed for occasional personal use as well as testing, maintenance and storage purposes. The operator of an HMV must have a valid regular driver license; some HMVs may also require the operator to have a valid commercial driver license. The operator must follow all traffic laws. Vehicles with HMV license plates cannot be used for regular transportation.
Edit : It is never a good idea to take legal advice from a internet forum .
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undysworld
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DoubleA,
I was one of the two guys who worked to get that law passed. DOT actually wrote it, but we seized the wording and got it enacted. Porkysplace is correct that it may end up being a judge who decides what the law means. The pertinent statute is [s.341.269, Wis. Stats.], and this is the exact wording:
A vehicle registered under this section may only be used for special occasions such as display and parade purposes, club activities, exhibitions, and tours, including traveling to and from such events, for necessary testing, maintenance, and storage purposes, and for occasional personal use, but not for regular transportation.
This means that you cannot use a HMV-licensed truck for commercial purposes, nor drive it on a daily basis. It does not specify a number of times per year that you can use it. The cop is wrong.
Importantly, in Wisconsin, you have the right to appeal things like this through the Department of Administration, division of hearings and appeals. Here is a link to the Wis. DOA: http://www.doa.state.wi.us/Divisions/Hearings-and-Appeals This is how we beat WisDOT over issues like whether a 1985 Chevy Blazer can be registered (it can, and we fought a 19 month DOA court battle to prove it). You don't even have to hire a lawyer, although you may.
So, go and use that truck for "occasional personal use", carry a copy of that Wis. statute printed out and give it to him, and if you are threatened with a ticket, be polite and explain to the cop that you will be filing an appeal. Then call me and we will help you fight it. As the guys who essentially wrote the law, we can testify as to the intent of the statute.
Unless this truck is your only form of transportation (do you have a "daily driver"?), it should not be considered your regular transportation. Your "daily driver" is your regular transportation.
I'm sending you a pm with my home info.
Regards,
Paul Underwood
edit to highlight statute in red
I was one of the two guys who worked to get that law passed. DOT actually wrote it, but we seized the wording and got it enacted. Porkysplace is correct that it may end up being a judge who decides what the law means. The pertinent statute is [s.341.269, Wis. Stats.], and this is the exact wording:
A vehicle registered under this section may only be used for special occasions such as display and parade purposes, club activities, exhibitions, and tours, including traveling to and from such events, for necessary testing, maintenance, and storage purposes, and for occasional personal use, but not for regular transportation.
This means that you cannot use a HMV-licensed truck for commercial purposes, nor drive it on a daily basis. It does not specify a number of times per year that you can use it. The cop is wrong.
Importantly, in Wisconsin, you have the right to appeal things like this through the Department of Administration, division of hearings and appeals. Here is a link to the Wis. DOA: http://www.doa.state.wi.us/Divisions/Hearings-and-Appeals This is how we beat WisDOT over issues like whether a 1985 Chevy Blazer can be registered (it can, and we fought a 19 month DOA court battle to prove it). You don't even have to hire a lawyer, although you may.
So, go and use that truck for "occasional personal use", carry a copy of that Wis. statute printed out and give it to him, and if you are threatened with a ticket, be polite and explain to the cop that you will be filing an appeal. Then call me and we will help you fight it. As the guys who essentially wrote the law, we can testify as to the intent of the statute.
Unless this truck is your only form of transportation (do you have a "daily driver"?), it should not be considered your regular transportation. Your "daily driver" is your regular transportation.
I'm sending you a pm with my home info.
Regards,
Paul Underwood
edit to highlight statute in red
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Get a Deuce, they require a lot of maintenance driving.
greenjeepster
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As written it is not enforceable. They would have to define occasional and prove you exceeded that definition. If It isn't a daily driver and you are only using it for personal use I would not sweat it... register it and enjoy.
Amen. I don't use the truck for commercial use. I haul my own wood maybe twice a year and I also make maple syrup so I haul sap a few times a year. Like I said if I drive it once a week that would be it. Sometimes it sits for 2 or 3 without moving. I had a meeting with the Leo last night and they said can't use it for things like I am and also said that the personal use applies only to go to parades and events. He said this is what Madison told him.
greenjeepster
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If you make maple syrup why can't you put farm tags on it?
undysworld
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You probably could, so long as you own a farm. The big difference is price: HMV is $30 for lifetime registration.
greenjeepster
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Looks like farm tag is 45 bucks for two years, as long as gross is under 38K you can also use it for personal and family purpose. Doesn't look like you actually need to own a farm, just have to be engaged in an agriculture practice which the maple syrup would qualify. I keep bees on other peoples land and have had no issues with getting farm tags in multiple states. Might be worth looking into.
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They have restrictions also and pricey.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/plateguide/heavy-truck.htm
[h=3]Heavy farm truck[/h] Farm truck in excess of 12,000 pounds. May not be used for any non-farm occupation or commuting to and from work. Farm truck registered at 38,000 pounds or more must be used exclusively for farm purposes. Use of farm truck less than 38,000 pounds must be primarily for farm purposes.
undysworld
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Registration is the responsibility of the state. Each state has different laws to administer, so what works in one state may or may not work in another.
FYI, a 26,000gvw Annual Heavy Truck Farm plate costs $118.75 http://dot.wi.gov/drivers/docs/bvs507-a.pdf
greenjeepster
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Farm plate rules are pretty consistent state to state because it is a federal mandate. I have had trucks tagged with farm plates in 4 different states and the rules were all the same.
For me 118.75 per year would be a bargain. My Deuce tags are 700.00 a year as the fee is based on gross weight. The fine for hauling maple sap in a truck tagged as historic MV is likely going to cost you much more than that. I would not worry about occasional personal use on a weekly basis, but I would not push it and haul anything.
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undysworld
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I'm not certain, but I think where some of the state to state consistency may stem from is US/DOT Motor Carrier rules for larger and commercial trucks.
As far as Wis. statute goes, there is no payload restriction against HMV plated trucks in Wis. (as there is against vehicles plated as Collector or Hobbyist in Wis.).
The WisDOT atty. who drafted the HMV bill back in '08 (or so), was so confident that he had roped green trucks into a parade/car show restriction that he neglected to add the payload restriction to the HMV statute. His mistake, as the legislature repealed the parade/car show restriction part of his bill two years later. Without the payload restriction, HMV trucks are unlimited.
Funny how the law evolves, and it shows how cautious you need to be when writing legislation. What started life as WisDOT's attempt to throw ex-military vehicles off the roads, ended up as one of the most generous registration laws in the nation. Serves 'em right, IMHO.
Bottom line is, you (and the LEOs too) can do whatever you want, so long as you are not successfully challenged. Sometimes it comes down to challenging things.
Cheers
As far as Wis. statute goes, there is no payload restriction against HMV plated trucks in Wis. (as there is against vehicles plated as Collector or Hobbyist in Wis.).
The WisDOT atty. who drafted the HMV bill back in '08 (or so), was so confident that he had roped green trucks into a parade/car show restriction that he neglected to add the payload restriction to the HMV statute. His mistake, as the legislature repealed the parade/car show restriction part of his bill two years later. Without the payload restriction, HMV trucks are unlimited.
Funny how the law evolves, and it shows how cautious you need to be when writing legislation. What started life as WisDOT's attempt to throw ex-military vehicles off the roads, ended up as one of the most generous registration laws in the nation. Serves 'em right, IMHO.
Bottom line is, you (and the LEOs too) can do whatever you want, so long as you are not successfully challenged. Sometimes it comes down to challenging things.
Cheers
Flyingvan911
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One deuce counts as personal use. Three or more counts as intent to distribute. He, he.
I know in my state(Utah) they have no military registration. They do have antique for any vehicle over 30 years old. But the fees for registration do not change until the vehicle is 40 at which point it is $10 annual. But the kicker is the parade/show use restriction. I figured if I was still going to have to pay $300+ per year I may as well do standard licensing so I could drive as much and where ever I choose. I may reconsider when it's 40 but until then I have no rules on how much or where I can drive.
That's funny, so it makes me a trailer distributer. LOL
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undysworld
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Driving a deuce and not hauling anything is just joyriding.
Fine if that's how you want to spend your time.Look, if something is not prohibited, then it is allowed. Nothing under the HMV registration statute/s prohibit hauling a load. That doesn't negate any other laws that apply, but so long as you are not otherwise prohibited from hauling a load (ie. no brakes, non-compliance with Motor Carrier regs, you're drunk, etc.), have at 'er!
Gunzy,
I think that makes you a trailer "dealer". Shame, shame...
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