1,680 mile HEMTT recovery

tobyS said:

How are you doing Jon (or has anyone heard from him)?

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I would be willing to bet he is still waiting on the EUC.

He's going to be waiting for a long time, and then again for a title.

JDToumanian said:

................... The API has a special oil classification specifically for the 2-cycle engines due to their unique requirements and differences from 4-stroke engines... It's CF-2, and should be mono-grade 40 weight....... Detroit Diesel published a lengthy technical bulletin about it, I can post it if anyone cares...Jon

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Yes we care, Please post it.

dk8019 said:

He's going to be waiting for a long time, and then again for a title.

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Forever and a day

Well, I went to find the DD oil bulletin that showed the liner scuff tests and it is gone, it was on my old computer that died, and the site I downloaded it from, Tejas Coach, no longer posts it for copyright reasons. However I am attaching the API oil guide that shows the CF-2 spec as the only one recommended for 2-cycle diesel engines, and the current MTU oil bulletin (MTU owns production rights for 2-cycle Detroit Diesels) which shows the requirement for CF-2 rated 40 weight (see the "Lubricants for 2-cycle Engines" section).

Tejas Coach still had the liner scuffing pictures from the DD bulletin comparing 15w-40 to straight 40 weight, so I'll post those, and the military's scuff-test bulletin which used a DD 6V-92TA. It doesn't make a brand recommendation, but clearly shows that the multi-grade oils and light weight oils do not stand up to the shearing action present in a DD liner (note how light weight and multi oils actually "seized" in the test).

Tejas Coach site has a ton of excellent 2-cycle DD info... http://www.tejascoach.com/ddcoil.html

View attachment Oil Grade Index.pdfView attachment A001061_34E.pdfView attachment ADA321790.pdf

HASSON1911 said:

Was done immediately with Rotella t40 got no complaints and honestly after the change the engine ran a 1000x better, purred like a cat and ran like a top.

I hope the oil change to 40w at 21k miles was enough to save the engine to last over 75k.

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If engine damage was done, it will show up as oil slobber coming out of the air box drains. If you're not leaving a little puddle everywhere you go, you're probably fine! Contrary to what some on this site claim, "Driptroits" DO NOT leak oil any worse than any other diesel engine of the era, unless they are very high mileage, or abused by incorrect oil. I have a 6-71N from 1978 in a 5-ton tractor and a 4-71N in an early 1980s Galion motor grader, and both are almost completely dry and consume only a quart or two between oil changes.

I changed the tranny fluid too, but it still acts funny to me (it may be normal but i have no other hemtt reference it too) when it wants to up shift, almost like it wants to but it hesitates revs up and when i let off itll lock and then im good to go. but other than that no complaints.

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Did you use a TES-295 fluid like TranSynd? I have no experience yet, but it supposedly makes a difference. I'll let you know how mine shifts... I've never driven a truck with a big automatic, but the consensus online seems to be that they shift better when you do it manually with the selector rather than just sticking it in "D" and letting it shift on it's own. Here's the Allison mechanic's tips and operator's manuals for our transmissions, I don't know if it has been posted here on SS before...

Jon

tobyS said:

Where are you now, 11/13? I'm not sure I wouldn't have coughed up $4k to trailer it.

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Driving it is the most economical (and most fun) way to get such a large truck from so far away... Even at only 3 mpg, fuel would be less than $1400. Shipping would be my last resort... I would sooner have it towed to the closest willing SS member's house, return with repair parts, and continue the journey.

I'm still waiting on the EUC, I did verify that I had done it correctly and that it has been submitted. They told me it will be 8-10 weeks, which puts it at mid-to-late December, so it's looking like the recovery trip will be somewhere around the first week of January.

Thanks everybody for the support and encouragement... You guys are the only ones who 'get it', you don't think I'm crazy, or raise your eyebrows and give me a funny look, or say "WTF would you want that for?" I appreciate it!

Jon

JDToumanian said:

Driving it is the most economical (and most fun) way to get such a large truck from so far away... Even at only 3 mpg, fuel would be less than $1400. Shipping would be my last resort... I would sooner have it towed to the closest willing SS member's house, return with repair parts, and continue the journey.

I'm still waiting on the EUC, I did verify that I had done it correctly and that it has been submitted. They told me it will be 8-10 weeks, which puts it at mid-to-late December, so it's looking like the recovery trip will be somewhere around the first week of January.

Thanks everybody for the support and encouragement... You guys are the only ones who 'get it', you don't think I'm crazy, or raise your eyebrows and give me a funny look, or say "WTF would you want that for?" I appreciate it!

Jon

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no we all think you are crazy, we are just as dumb though and would do it if we could.

Heck Jon, if I could, I would co pilot.

JDToumanian said:

Thanks! I'm so excited to go get it I can hardly stand it.



Thank goodness no damage was done! I guess a little idling, and loading and unloading it didn't generate enough heat...



That's normal... 2-cycle Detroits have a relatively low pressure, high volume oil system. A perfectly healthy engine can be as low as 5 psi at idle, which some gauges don't even register. Have you done an oil change yet? I suggest getting the military's 15w-40 oil out of there ASAP. The API has a special oil classification specifically for the 2-cycle engines due to their unique requirements and differences from 4-stroke engines... It's CF-2, and should be mono-grade 40 weight. Anything else drastically reduces the lifespan... "liner scuffing" would soon have the engine blowing oil out of the airbox drains. It's why the military is lucky to get 75,000 miles from an engine that routinely does 500,000+ in civilian service. Detroit Diesel published a lengthy technical bulletin about it, I can post it if anyone cares...

Jon

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This is absolutely correct. I own a DD 6-71T as a hobby engine, and I believe the only oil marketed today which is accepted to be used is Delo 40wt? The uniqueness of a 2 stroke Detroit Diesel's rings going past the cylinder ports is a difficult shearing operation on the oil, and I think almost no other oil can withstand it. Given that most of todays oils have been massaged to be more environmentally friendly, I don't think there are too many left really rated for the 2 stroke Detroits. Could also check with other personally owned DD user groups such as historical city bus collectors, they love those engines and know what works with them. I do think the Delo 40wt is one of the only accepted currently.

Rotella t1 40 is also very acceptable, I have found delo 40 very hard to find in my neck of the woods. Like early after switching to the 40w ran 100x better

good hunting for the oil of our choice.

I really wanted a HEMTT, but settled for an M1078. Keep us posted on your schedule. I'm also in Tucson, and would love to ride out to meet you and escort that beast through southern AZ with the LMTV.

The attached lube requirements are list in the attached pdf
I know nothing of two cycle diesel engines but I start today with the pdf

Recommendations of the bus guys is here
http://busnut.com/forum/index.php?topic=1947.0

I only have room for one Deuce, but so far anyway, I am still allowed to dream of more.

View attachment Lube-Oil-Fuel-Requirements Detroit Diesel.pdfView attachment Lube-Oil-Fuel-Requirements Detroit Diesel.pdf

frank8003 said:

The attached lube requirements are list in the attached pdf
I know nothing of two cycle diesel engines but I start today with the pdf

Recommendations of the bus guys is here
http://busnut.com/forum/index.php?topic=1947.0

I only have room for one Deuce, but so far anyway, I am still allowed to dream of more.

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Thanks for the pdf... I'm familiar with the Bus Nuts group, one of my best friends has bus fever the same way we have MV fever. I know, I don't understand it either, but they look at us like we're crazy the same way we look at them. He's coming with me on my HEMTT recovery just as I have gone along with him on a number of lengthy bus recoveries. Anyway, it's funny to hear some of those guys talk about the crap oil they use... WalMart oil, whatever they can find, not following the manuals, running 15w-40 like it doesn't matter. I guarantee you those are the same guys who then call the engines "green leakers" and say stuff like "If it isn't leaking, it's out of oil".

I read a quote on that Bus Nut site once, it said something about how they "buy run-down old buses with a million miles on them that blow out oil, and then conclude that 'all Detroits leak oil'. It's a fallacy. A Detroit in good condition DOES NOT LEAK."

Jon

Konichiwa512 said:

I'm also in Tucson, and would love to ride out to meet you and escort that beast through southern AZ with the LMTV.

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Now that sounds like fun! The amount of fun I will be able to have on this trip is inversely proportional to the amount of problems I encounter. Hopefully I'll be able to take my time and have fun, rather than change a transmission on the side of the road and make a bee-line for home.

I do think the Delo 40wt is one of the only accepted currently.

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There are others... As pointed out, Rotella T1 40 wt. is acceptable. Most of the oil companies make a CF-2 type oil, but it is probably going to be special order from a lubricants dealer, not an auto parts store, although you can order the DELO 100 40 wt. at all O'Reilly's locations.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d....oap?ck=Search_N0422_-1_-1&pt=N0422&ppt=C0162

I even read that Royal Purple makes a CF-2 fully synthetic 40 wt... I bet that's good stuff.

Jon

Instead of Delo 100
how about Miles Lubricants M00200503
This looks like .78 ash with TBN 7
$53.03 free ship Amazon
Miles All Spec 40W, 5 gal


Miles Monograde Heavy Duty Xhd Diesel Engine Oils are high quality low ash engine oils formulated for diesel engines where ash deposits are a problem. The low ash content reduces ash deposits and helps keep intakes clear. Miles Monograde Heavy Duty Xhd Diesel Engine Oils are Api licensed and exceed Api Cf-2 and Cf requirements. They are recommended for applications requiring Mil-L-2104E and former Api categories Ce, Cd-II and Cd. Advantage Monogrades 30 and 40 also meet the requirements of former Api category SJ, and 10 meets Allison C-4 and Cat To-2.

bump

This may be the "lost" document
http://www.tejascoach.com/ddcoil.html

1. [SIZE=+2]Detroit Diesel® 2-Cycle Engines[/SIZE]
   DDC publication 6SA314 8901