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Metal in transmission

rustystud

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I'm sure you know it, but once your at the high end of pressure applied, sometimes a simple smack of a (brass) hammer gets things to let go. Something about the shock resonating through the part. Heat works good too.
I was hitting it alright ! and heating it with the torch before it finally came off. It was on there but good ! After looking at the gear once it was off I could see small gouge marks on the shaft and gear. I believe who ever originally installed it didn't use any assembly lube and just rammed it on with a big press.
 

rustystud

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I was a half a second from pulling the trigger on a good American made 60 tonner, but realized I haven't had anything my 20 ton couldn't handle(and it was WAY far away).
Those make good "bogie bushings" removers ! When I was working at IHC in the 1970's we had a 100 ton press. I had to replace the suspension (bogie) walking beam bushings in a 80,000 Ibs dump truck. It took the full 100 tons plus the torch to get that one bushing out ! When it finally came free the whole press jumped in the air almost 1 foot ! Talk about changing your under-wear !
 

JasonS

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Found time to pull the cover off today. There is a strange wear pattern on third gear and a few teeth broken off of the reverse idle gear. Overall, thought that I'd have found worse. I think that I will refill with 50 weight and start planning for a transmission swap next summer or a new idler shaft. Other thoughts or suggestions?
transmission.jpgthird gear_1.jpgthird gear_2.jpgchipped teeth.jpg
 

rustystud

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Found time to pull the cover off today. There is a strange wear pattern on third gear and a few teeth broken off of the reverse idle gear. Overall, thought that I'd have found worse. I think that I will refill with 50 weight and start planning for a transmission swap next summer or a new idler shaft. Other thoughts or suggestions?
View attachment 647998View attachment 647996View attachment 647997View attachment 647995
That wear pattern is called "spalling" and it is normal if you just replaced the countershaft gear or that is a new third gear with an old counter shaft gear. Sometimes changing the gear oil to a lighter weight can also cause it. If it is from new gears just leave it and let it "run in" to the other gear set. If it's from oil then go to a heavier weight gear oil. As far as the reverse countershaft gear, yes that is a bit of wear on those teeth ! But it is only on those two teeth correct ? If so then I would just run it until it breaks. It's only for reverse anyway and who needs reverse ! :wink: When changing gear oil just pay attention to any metal in the oil. If it is getting to be to much then change out the transmission.
 

DavidWymore

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I've been salvaging transmissions parts I have here lately and the countershaft gears have all taken my 15 ton press to remove. Actually I had to put my 20 ton jack in to get one off, and it started to bend my press top plate before it finally came free ! That was from a 1954 REO truck and I'm sure it was still the original transmission and insides.
Which brings up another thing. I need some 2-3 synchro's. Does anyone know of a supplier who has a decent price on them ? Last one I found on eBay wanted over $250.00 each !
Have you tried Waterloo specialties? I got 2nd and main from him (m35 Tom) very reasonably priced.
 

JasonS

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David,

There certainly is some slop in the 2nd gear. I don't think as much as what is shown in the video. I can't hear any metal "clacking" sound as I move it back/ forth.



Rusty,

I was running cheap 40wt oil; going to put the correct 50wt back in and let it be. I have another spare transmission back at the farm that I will swap in next spring/ summer.


Thanks for the suggestions.
 

JasonS

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I replaced the 40wt engine oil with 50wt transmission oil from the local truck shop. Not really less noisy but it does seem to shift better (or doesn't shift worse as it warms up). The benefit of the engine oil is that the detergents did clean out the transmission and transfer case.
 

tobyS

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I remember hearing about sawdust being used in the oil on badly worn trannys. Why would you not use 80-90 gear oil?
 

JasonS

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I remember hearing about sawdust being used in the oil on badly worn trannys. Why would you not use 80-90 gear oil?
I've heard of talcum powder being used as well; back in the depression era cars. I hope that my transmission isn't that bad yet. :grin:

I put in 40wt engine oil based on the recommendations of the board and the shifting got a little notchy as the transmission warmed up. Straight 50wt is what Spicer recommended in the 1950s truck manuals and what is used today for many of their transmissions. I figured that I'd try the "correct" lube and see how it worked. Compared to 40wt, the 50wt is an improvement.
 

rustystud

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I've heard of talcum powder being used as well; back in the depression era cars. I hope that my transmission isn't that bad yet. :grin:

I put in 40wt engine oil based on the recommendations of the board and the shifting got a little notchy as the transmission warmed up. Straight 50wt is what Spicer recommended in the 1950s truck manuals and what is used today for many of their transmissions. I figured that I'd try the "correct" lube and see how it worked. Compared to 40wt, the 50wt is an improvement.
The straight 50w from the fifties is not the same 50w of today. We had quite a discussion on this last year. Or was it early this year ? Either way that is why most all transmission shops went to 80-90w gear oils in the 1960's up to the present era.
So using the 50w "gear oil" is what the engineer said to use at "Tremec" . Actually he said "synthetic 50w gear oil is what he would use. So now you can see the damage that can happen from using the incorrect oil.
 
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JasonS

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The straight 50w from the fifties is not the same 50w of today. We had quite a discussion on this last year. Or was it early this year ? Either way that is why most all transmission shops went to 80-90w gear oils in the 1960's up to the present era.
So using the 50w "gear oil" is what the engineer said to use at "Tremec" . Actually he said "synthetic 50w gear oil is what he would use. So now you can see the damage that can happen from using the incorrect oil.
I read part of that thread but it didn't really agree with what I saw here in the truck shops. Based on discussions in two different truck shops, it seems that all they have ever used is 50wt. However, it was your comment that the viscosity should be 50wt "minimum" in that thread that led me to look again at the oil after experiencing "notchy" shifting. I considered synthetic 50wt but he didn't think it necessary and I was already in it for $100 with a 5 gallon pail.
 

rustystud

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I read part of that thread but it didn't really agree with what I saw here in the truck shops. Based on discussions in two different truck shops, it seems that all they have ever used is 50wt. However, it was your comment that the viscosity should be 50wt "minimum" in that thread that led me to look again at the oil after experiencing "notchy" shifting. I considered synthetic 50wt but he didn't think it necessary and I was already in it for $100 with a 5 gallon pail.
Out here on the West coast the shops mainly used 80-90w . I can see your shops out there using the 50w as your much colder in winter then we ever are. When the gears get going they produce some serious heat and that really thins out the oil. Since we are on average 50 degrees F. (year round average) that lower viscosity oil doesn't do well. It basically turns to the consistency of water when it's hot ! In fact I had to go to 140w in my old 1979 Scout's transfer-case as the 80-90w would make it howl when it got hot. After going to the 140w it settled right down just fine.
 

Slate

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So found this in my garage from 2006. GL5 GL4 Mil-L-2105-D says Spicer. Would this work for tranny? Be nice to use some crap I have laying around. IMG_20190814_141933324.jpgIMG_20190814_141925763.jpg

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View attachment 773294
 

Slate

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I think most here would say that oil you found would work.
Thank you sir. I was going to clean out pieces and fill the transmission back up with this and run it. But I may take the time and fix it right.

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tobyS

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If you have all of the debris out, then try it....you have very low risk of a failure that would threaten your or someone else's life.... since you have working brakes. Buy one and rebuild it on longer time frame (unless the one in it fails). I think the key is getting out all of the debris. Look for sharp spots on the damaged places and remove the edge...will help the lube to work better.

I could send you a coffee can of fine hardwood sawdust.

I agree with Tom...use that oil .....and save the $$$ for the new tranny
 
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Slate

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Ozona Texas
If you have all of the debris out, then try it....you have very low risk of a failure that would threaten your or someone else's life.... since you have working brakes. Buy one and rebuild it on longer time frame (unless the one in it fails). I think the key is getting out all of the debris. Look for sharp spots on the damaged places and remove the edge...will help the lube to work better.

I could send you a coffee can of fine hardwood sawdust.

I agree with Tom...use that oil .....and save the $$$ for the new tranny
Ha no sawdust please I've got plenty. Cutting wood for winter in 100F. No central heat or air. I bought a truck from a guy that had put sawdust in it to quiet the transmission down so no one would hear the clanking. No thank you.

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