Dually conversion done simple on the cheap.

It is. Came under a dump. Not OK?

corelokt said:

It is. Came under a dump. Not OK?

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Not if you want to run dually fenders. Then it'll look funky. Otherwise it'll just be stronger than a wider axle, if that matters to you.

corelokt said:

It is. Came under a dump. Not OK?

Click to expand...

Talk to Recovry4x4, he stated in a post above that he shoehorned a C&C axle in a pickup.

I wouldn't run spacers, but if you can make that C&C axle work it would be neat since it would narrow up the ride a bit. I do know for sure that you would have to weld diffrent spring perches on it. That axle does have value to the 4X4 guys since it is so narrow. You could just find a 72" wide dually axle and it would bolt right up.

Chaski said:

Talk to Recovry4x4, he stated in a post above that he shoehorned a C&C axle in a pickup.

I wouldn't run spacers, but if you can make that C&C axle work it would be neat since it would narrow up the ride a bit. I do know for sure that you would have to weld diffrent spring perches on it. That axle does have value to the 4X4 guys since it is so narrow. You could just find a 72" wide dually axle and it would bolt right up.

Click to expand...

No need to weld perches, the cc 14 bolt is a BOLT IN deal.

It really depends on what your end goal is !
CC 14 bolt = narrow width dually
Dana 70 = wide (like dually fenders on a fleetside bed)

These 2 axle choices from same square body style is BOLT IN.

Other year model axles (88-98 NEWER body style) are different widths & would require new spring perches, shock mounts, etc !

Ah, in front of a computer now so let me shed a little extra light on the subject. There are several ways to go about this but here are some details you might consider. Firstly, the Dana 70HD. This axle was used on all of the dually pickups from 73-86 and the 87-91 R/V series trucks. When the following body style came out, the dually pickups came with a similar width 14 bolt. Beware that the studs changed to metric in the new body style. That same Dana 70HD was also used in chassis cab trucks featuring the ambulance package.

C/C trucks otherwise, used a narrow version of the 14 bolt. The tires barely clear the springs. The C/C 14 bolt, SRW 14 bolt and 70HD all share the same spring pad width and shock mounts as long as it's from the 73-87(91) trucks. Here is where it gets interesting. Housing width and axle shaft lengths are the same for the SRW and C/C 14 bolts. The offset in the hubs and drums make for the narrow stance. The C/C had a slightly larger tube diameter as well. If one wanted to and were capable, they could remove the 4 bolt flange off of the SRW housing, move it inboard and install the DRW hubs and be set. Trust me, it's not as easy as it sounds.

If one were to go C/C axle in a pickup bed, there will be some clearance issues. You can either mod the inner wheel tubs or install a lift kit. The single 16" rims are useless for the swap.

Later axles will work but expect to change spring perches, shock mounts and deal with dissimilar threads on the studs.

The info on the front rotors is spot on. Any further questions or clarification, just ask.

So, sounds like the narrow 14 bolt will work and keep the outer wheels closer in from the curb.
Then I may need to go to a flat bed, or cut up my bed.
The front dually hub's are good to go.
Right?

Yes, dually front hubs GTG.

Sorry about the bad info on the C&C spring perches. For some reason I thought they were 36" on center. Sounds like you will be good to go as long as you make room for the inner dual!

One last thought before you jump on the 14 bolt bandwagon. The Corporate 14 bolt has a tube diameter of 3.25" and a GAWR of 8,600 Ibs. The Dana 70HD has a tube diameter of 4.00" and a GAWR of 10,000 Ibs. It is far superior in strength and handling due to the wider stance and if your going to be hauling anything this is the axle you want. That is the major reason that all three of the biggies, GM, Ford, and Chrysler used them on all their dually trucks for so many years. Just something to consider.

Chassis cab axle is also rated at 10,000#. Tube diameter on the C/C axle is 3.5". I'm no detractor of the 70HD, it is brutally strong but I appreciate and prefer the design of the 14B with it's 3rd pinion bearing and much cheaper cost of a locker. Were I to build a regular dually pickup, I would use the wide 14B from the 88-99 trucks and switch out the hubs and brakes to 73-87 stuff to keep the 9/16 studs (not found a direct replacement).

Here is a little more (lot more) info on the 14 Bolt axles.
http://billavista.com/tech/Articles/14-Bolt_Bible/index.html

I am staying 14 bolt as I have the locker for it.
I also have wondered if I can just put the dually hub's on my 14 bolt axle and save a lot of work?
-Is the axle tube strong enough to be worth it?
-I have fenders I can use if needed.
-Wider would cut down on sway right?
-Are there cucv dually axles out there that anyone knows of?
-Are the cucv dually axles 4.56 and locked diffs.
-I don't know values, but I would swap my stuff for a locked 4.56 dually axle.

corelokt said:

I am staying 14 bolt as I have the locker for it.
I also have wondered if I can just put the dually hub's on my 14 bolt axle and save a lot of work?
-Is the axle tube strong enough to be worth it?
-I have fenders I can use if needed.
-Wider would cut down on sway right?
-Are there cucv dually axles out there that anyone knows of?
-Are the cucv dually axles 4.56 and locked diffs?

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The cucv dually axles are Dana 70's.

Found this. Is this all because of the hub's being different, or are mounting flanges different widths, or are the axles and tubes diffetenti assume that they are measuring from mounting surfaces, or outer brake drum?

SRW (single rear wheel truck) 67.5"

DRW (dual rear wheel truck) 72"

C&C (cab and chasis truck) 63.5"

Van 70" G30 and G35T

The single rear axle tubes on the 14 bolt are longer than the "cab & chassis" duel. I tried to do what you are thinking about (just swapping the hubs) years ago when I made up the 1008 dump pictured earlier in this thread, found that out, haha. As Recovery 4x4 pointed out, they have the brake backing plate right up to the springs on the 14 bolt duel, offset inward.

There are duel wheel conversion hubs you can bolt on to a single axle. That is what is on the other truck I posted in this thread, the one with the west coast mirrors. The axle is plenty strong enough, but those conversion hubs make for a wider rear track. It worked out OK for me, as the conversion was on the truck when I bought it, and the bed I had for it was wider than standard. It is not the way I would go if I did not already have it though.

The main gain in stability would be the helper spring pack and frame bumpers you are going to add when you rig this up, like on the 1028, but with multi leaf helper.

Edit: I think the diameter on the single wheel hub is slightly different than the duel, so the rims are not interchangeable, if you were thinking of just using longer wheel studs. (tried that too once) They probably do this on purpose.

corelokt said:

Is the axle tube strong enough to be worth it?

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Unless I missed it, you never said what the purpose of the dually setup was. Normally duals are used for added carrying capacity, and the other components sized accordingly, but I've seen dually equipped Blazers and Suburbans, so load isn't always the reason.
In other words; Strong enough for what?

Building for towing. Ball hitch and fifth wheel.
I want to up load capacity and increase stability.

If I read correctly.
A 14 bolt CC axle will bolt in, but will rub the fender tubs?
A steel, hub centric spacer, would that help?

Recovry4x4 said:

Chassis cab axle is also rated at 10,000#. Tube diameter on the C/C axle is 3.5". I'm no detractor of the 70HD, it is brutally strong but I appreciate and prefer the design of the 14B with it's 3rd pinion bearing and much cheaper cost of a locker. Were I to build a regular dually pickup, I would use the wide 14B from the 88-99 trucks and switch out the hubs and brakes to 73-87 stuff to keep the 9/16 studs (not found a direct replacement).

Here is a little more (lot more) info on the 14 Bolt axles.
http://billavista.com/tech/Articles/14-Bolt_Bible/index.html

Click to expand...

I have never found any credible information that said the 14 bolt could be rated to 10,000 Ibs. If you have this I would really appreciate it if you could post it. One thing you didn't mention about the Dana 70HD was it's larger carrier bearings and 35 spline shafts. They are larger then any 14 bolt ever made. Also the 14 bolt uses a "crush sleeve" instead of shims to adjust the pinion. That is a far weaker design then the shims which all big trucks use in their differential designs. If this truck is going to be used to tow and haul serious loads then he should consider using the differential that was intended for that purpose.

corelokt said:

Building for towing. Ball hitch and fifth wheel.
I want to up load capacity and increase stability.

Click to expand...

That sounds a lot like what prompted me to create the "M1007.2", as seen on a different thread, which ultimately made you start this thread.
Both vehicles meant for towing, but probably entirely different things, and weights. Without knowing your projected tongue weights, it's hard to tell what the axle/frame/spring/wheel/tire capacity needs to be.

I had 9 tons of gravel in a 16-foot gooseneck dump trailer (which weighs around 6,000 lbs.) behind the M1007.2 - a modified M1008 - and it pulled it just fine with the stock axle, springs and single wheels.
BUT, this was for a short distance, at very low speed, and on private property.

I'm guessing that your intended usage is different, if nothing else, based on the mention of a fifth wheel. And this is where it all stops making sense to me. If you're considering pulling a travel trailer, or something similar, heavy enough to warrant dual rear wheels, then a 6.2 would be overwhelmed. And as undesirable as the 4.56 gears are for road use, they would be a minimum. And Low range would likely be needed on steeper grades.

Anyway, stability can be had by using an appropriate anti-sway bar, helper air springs (as long as they are not plumbed together), overload springs, or a combination thereof. But in my experience, lateral stability of the tow vehicle isn't much of an issue when pulling a trailer. It's when there's a top heavy load on the vehicle that stability becomes very desirable.
Case in point; Bought too big of a camper for a small block powered, single wheel Crew Cab. Could barely go up grades, despite 4.10 gears, so I put a 454 in it. Then, after being on the verge of being blown over a few times, I bought a Crew Cab dually.
While that '91 had all the good stuff (60 front, 70 rear, 205 transfer case, 4L80E, etc.) it still wasn't overly stable and didn't stop all that well (about 16,000 lbs. with camper, trailer and Jeep).
Gave up and bought a 359 Peterbilt for towing duties. Which even resulted in a 50% improvement in mileage although total weight had now more than doubled.

So the moral of the story is that you should carefully consider what you'll be asking from your M1008. And perhaps also worth noting is that you may want to disregard my advice as I'm selling the Pete and its trailer and putting a camper on a 3500 cab and chassis. It's a dually, but still.

I have a 6.5 turbo, makes a estimated 200 wheel HP and 450 torque, kinda built up.
4L80E transmission, built to tow.
Looking for a trailer hauler: goose neck, 5th wheel, bumper w weight dist hitch.
I'm looking for a do it all truck.
The companion hitch that does both is what I'm considering down the road. My main concern is my truck sits high on the 36 inch tires, no lift. Will the 5th, goose neck Hitch's work? I've only ever towed w a weight dist hitch.