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Thread: Looking for MA-1A Huffer Cart Technical Manuals

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyfang View Post
    You know, it wouldn't hurt to give Garret a call/email. They were very good to me when I needed some info on a MUST. They did not have to help, but did because they wanted too.
    I'll try and give them a call tomorrow. That's a real surprise to hear that they still support something that's so old. Hopefully they won't mind answering a few questions.

    Thanks!

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    4 Star General Jericho's Avatar
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    The micro switch is a service able unit. Usually a little mIL-L-7808 turbine engine oil will free it up. Donít get it on your skin is is a known cancer causing agent , lol glad I could help. Usually the first thing to look at is the micro switches Iíll still see if he can find the data

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    4 Star General Jericho's Avatar
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    Two more useful points ensure you have s fire extinguisher hand. If you have a post shut down combustion can fire. Do not discharge extinguisher intake or exhaust. Kill the fuel and motor the turbine over until the fire is extinguished. Worst result is you may fry starter. If you hit it with a FE you will thermal shock the inducer/ exducer and it’s toast !! Do use regular motor oil in it. Use Mil - L - 7808 or 29518 Reg oil will not suffice it will seize !!!!

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    Please post a video once you get it running!

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    4 Star General Guyfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Two more useful points ensure you have s fire extinguisher hand. If you have a post shut down combustion can fire. Do not discharge extinguisher intake or exhaust. Kill the fuel and motor the turbine over until the fire is extinguished. Worst result is you may fry starter. If you hit it with a FE you will thermal shock the inducer/ exducer and itís toast !! Do NOT use regular motor oil in it. Use Mil - L - 7808 or 29518 Reg oil will not suffice it will seize !!!!
    Jericho, I think this is what you meant. And yes, this crap is not what you want to get on your skin. Sadly, no one warned us about it, until I had worked with it for several years. I used it in the D424A 150 KW Turbine gen set, in Patriot ADA.

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    4 Star General Jericho's Avatar
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    Yes thank you. It had been a long day. And yes 7808 causes cancer. Used to swim in the stuff we all regularly sucked the stuff up the Joap ( joint Oil Anylisis Program ) sample tubes for oil wear trend analysis as well and spit it out. Mil-l -29515 sticks in my mind as the non synthetic turbine oil as well. AF really got hot on oil exposure in the mid eighties. Right after the agent Orange expousure guys started dying in large numbers We had loads of older NCO s getting rare cancers and dying MEK.( methyl ethyl ketone) MIL-L-5606 Hydraulic oil has the same carcinogen additives as well as any number of the cleaning agents and turbine engine gas path cleaner W e routinely were exposed to dioxins . Even jet fuel has been conclusively been shown to cause cancer and immediate hearing loss . Reference studies done in Australia’s new zealand and the United Kingdom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Two more useful points ensure you have s fire extinguisher hand. If you have a post shut down combustion can fire. Do not discharge extinguisher intake or exhaust. Kill the fuel and motor the turbine over until the fire is extinguished. Worst result is you may fry starter. If you hit it with a FE you will thermal shock the inducer/ exducer and itís toast !! Do use regular motor oil in it. Use Mil - L - 7808 or 29518 Reg oil will not suffice it will seize !!!!
    I called honeywell tech support, they had no resources or any support available for that model. Seems that the model I have is so old that it's been unsupported for quite a while.

    Other than that, I was able to find out a few more things with a bit of troubleshooting.

    For one thing, the fuel pump works, I can hear it turning, but no fuel comes out of the nozzle line when I hit the start button.

    Other prob is that the igniter doesn't tick when using the start button, but works fine when I supply power to it directly.

    I also checked the oil filter and found that there was no filter there!! Just an empty bowl filled with oil! So now I need to find a filter for it.

    The one thing that worries me, is that there is an oil pressure switch mounted near the ignition unit. I disconnected the line to make sure it was getting oil, but no oil came out! Maybe this has something to do with the filter missing?? I don't want to keep motoring it without oil pressure! As for the oil tank, it's got plenty of 7808 oil in it.

    Thanks again for all the help, you and a few other people are the only ones left that know a thing or two about these!

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    4 Star General Guyfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soconnoriv View Post
    I called honeywell tech support, they had no resources or any support available for that model. Seems that the model I have is so old that it's been unsupported for quite a while.

    Other than that, I was able to find out a few more things with a bit of troubleshooting.

    For one thing, the fuel pump works, I can hear it turning, but no fuel comes out of the nozzle line when I hit the start button.

    Other prob is that the igniter doesn't tick when using the start button, but works fine when I supply power to it directly.

    I also checked the oil filter and found that there was no filter there!! Just an empty bowl filled with oil! So now I need to find a filter for it.

    The one thing that worries me, is that there is an oil pressure switch mounted near the ignition unit. I disconnected the line to make sure it was getting oil, but no oil came out! Maybe this has something to do with the filter missing?? I don't want to keep motoring it without oil pressure! As for the oil tank, it's got plenty of 7808 oil in it.

    Thanks again for all the help, you and a few other people are the only ones left that know a thing or two about these!

    The highlighted problems are interrelated. I have never worked on this set before. BUT, my D424A was a turbine, and it's probably about the same thing. I do remember that when I hit the start switch, that the fuel pump would kick on, (you can hear it) the fuel Solenoid would also kick on, (you could hear it) that lets the fuel go into the fuel nozzle/burner can. Shortly after that, the igniter would fire off. I do seem to also remember, that if the solenoid DIDN'T open, the igniter would NOT pop off. It was in series, so if one didnt work, the other didnt work. I also remember that if I had no fuel PRESSURE, the pump would run, but the igniter would NOT pop off. There was a function on the D424A that purged the fuel lines to atmosphere, before allowing the fuel system to apply fuel to the Nozzle. That was to clear old fuel from the system. And I know that if I had no OIL PRESSURE, the set would NOT start.

    Jericho,

    I once saw a D424A destroy itself in about 90 seconds. A very stupid, (and it pains me to admit a WO, ) put 15W-40 into a gen set, because, (oh how this pains me to remember the words) "Oil is oil!" I ran over to try and stop the whole deal, but was just too slow. 90 seconds. A new, rebuilt $255,000.00 engine, sent to turbine heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyfang View Post
    The highlighted problems are interrelated. I have never worked on this set before. BUT, my D424A was a turbine, and it's probably about the same thing. I do remember that when I hit the start switch, that the fuel pump would kick on, (you can hear it) the fuel Solenoid would also kick on, (you could hear it) that lets the fuel go into the fuel nozzle/burner can. Shortly after that, the igniter would fire off. I do seem to also remember, that if the solenoid DIDN'T open, the igniter would NOT pop off. It was in series, so if one didnt work, the other didnt work. I also remember that if I had no fuel PRESSURE, the pump would run, but the igniter would NOT pop off. There was a function on the D424A that purged the fuel lines to atmosphere, before allowing the fuel system to apply fuel to the Nozzle. That was to clear old fuel from the system. And I know that if I had no OIL PRESSURE, the set would NOT start.

    Jericho,

    I once saw a D424A destroy itself in about 90 seconds. A very stupid, (and it pains me to admit a WO, ) put 15W-40 into a gen set, because, (oh how this pains me to remember the words) "Oil is oil!" I ran over to try and stop the whole deal, but was just too slow. 90 seconds. A new, rebuilt $255,000.00 engine, sent to turbine heaven.
    I think you're right on the money, especially with the oil pressure statement. I just got off the phone with a guy that overhauls these. He said that every symptom that i have is related to the oil pressure switch. After I told him that it's sat for a while, he strongly suggests that it is the problem. He also explained to me that there is a push-button style primer pump on the oil control unit. I had no idea what it was until he explained it to me! Sure enough, the pump seems to work!

    He's also got hundreds of each part in stock for it! Looks like I'll be buying some filters and o-rings from him soon!
    That really sucks to hear how your D424A self destructed like that. I'll be putting nothing other than 7808 in this machine for sure!

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    4 Star General Jericho's Avatar
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    Positive indicated oil pressure IS needed to complete light off, having said that , on your filter , there are two types the old style was a screen and spacer type that was cleanable, a series of mesh screens one on top of the other in sequence, you stripped them down chucked them in the ultra sonic cleaner for a few hours and restacked them , J 57 -59 W jet engine was the same , I believe those were all gone by the late eighties, the new style was a steel screen cartridge throw away . How high was the rpm going on your start attempts, Before the fuel solenoid allows fuel to the atomizer fuel nozzle it has to hit the first step on the three speed switch. DO NOT AS GUY FANG CORRECTED, USE REGULAR MOTOR OIL< it cant take the heat or the rpm ! I am amazed but happy for you that your found parts , Fuel control for it used to run UNCLE around $18.500.00 in 1992 , REBUILT, by depot, there were no new production controls by then , but don't be scared the price Charged by the Air Force Depot at San Antonio to the Air Force .

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