Fun with PA DOT officer ending in putting me out of service + $1200 in fines

I don't know about Florida, but most of you're states are going with the, "if it's got six wheels ,U ARE COMM." therefore under Federal Comm.safety Ass. rules and regulations. the good old U.S.A.

sue said:

I agree with “simp” , I come from a law enforcement family
and most people would not believe what he said, it is very
true. If not look up “ no talk traffic stop videos on *tube.
and I drove a truck for a number of years and did not follow
in the family tradition of blue, and we all know there are good
and bad who wear a badge, and some of the good even have
a bad day. I hope that you fight this and file complaints against
those involved. You would be surprised how effective officer
complants are.

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I am always in agreement with Wes' outlook and experience but not this time. Doing a "I wont answer anything" traffic stop is asking to end up in the slammer. I was recently stopped by CMV enforcement for a burned out clearance light in my 915, I cooperated fully, was polite, and was not cited. If I had been a jerk, he would have found my muffler rust hole and who knows what else on a 37 year old truck and would have been placed OOS.

Georgia offers a Private Weighted tag. Doesn't cost much more than a standard tag either and I think they go as low as 10,000#. It says Private right on the tag. Would come in real handy in a situation like this when travelling through other states. The State of Georgia says I'm a private operator. Not much more to debate on that point.

NDT said:

Doing a "I wont answer anything" traffic stop is asking to end up in the slammer.

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Personal liberty aside, I agree that starting a traffic stop on an antagonistic note does not help your case.

That being said, the DOT officer in question (from the OP) had no just or probable cause to invoke his CMV enforcement authority against a personal vehicle hauling an unladen trailer. Simply because the vehicle's CGWVR was above 10,000lbs does not mean the vehicle is subject to CMV rules... I bet the OP's vehicle and trailer registration are both in his own name, and not held by a company or LLC entity. Burden of proof is on the law to show that the alleged offender is engaging in a for-profit commercial enterprise.

I would have firmly asked to speak to the officer's supervisor (in person, on scene; not via cell phone), or started dialing the local jurisdiction to speak with a desk supervisor and demand a resolution.

WV New Guy said:

Being a former resident of PA for 40yrs most law enforcement is over the top and I have family working State Law enforcement in PA . I stay off of I-81 even in my car take I-81 to 70 to 522 to the turnpike and head into the base the back way.

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Concur on that. I hate the fact you can't do traffic jam avoidance on the interstates in PA.

Many tickets to out of state operators are laid with the sincere hope you will send in the money and not appear. Especially if the DOT officer has recently been counseled by his captain to get his summons and thus fine production up. Yes DOT officers will lie and misconstrue laws and regulations to get you out of service. Happy motoring.

Many tickets for motor vehicle violations are laid with the sincere hope you will just send in the money and not appear. The state just wants the money. Highway safety is not their principle concern. Government operators at all levels are conveniently exempt from all of these nit picking regulations. There is apparently a loop hole in the regulations that exempts U Haul from displaying fuel tax identification or keeping log books unless the vehicle is leased to a common carrier like UPS. Letterkenny and Tobyhanna are close to state lines which facilitates their intertstate commerce scam. Trucker mags such as Overdrive will carry advertisements for attorneys who specialize in transportation subjects. And yes, DOT agents will lie and misinterpret regulations to get you out of service, especially if the officer involved has recently been counseledby his captain to get his summons and fine production up.

And if you really want to get in trouble DOTs run a seventy two consecutive hour inspection during the first week in June at 10,000 locations nationwide because they know the bad boys run at night to avoid truck inspectors who typically work the day shift Monday to Friday.

RCW 46.25.010(6) "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle:...
RCW 46.25.050(1) Drivers of commercial motor vehicles must obtain a commercial driver's license as required under this chapter.

The "In commerce" was added in 2006. I really wish DOL would update their WAC's... Since WAC 308-100-010 is from 2000, and lists 46.25.010 as the underlying authority. The legislature changed their minds.

State of Tennessee, Arkansas, and Mississippi you can be 79,999lbs and be private and not have to have a CDL or air brake endorsement.

My silent treatment is not in regards to them stating what they stopped you for. After that its up to you. It is for when they are fishing and just stopped you cause they wanted to be snoopy. Drug interdiction officers do that random stop cause you have texas tags or your headlights are on at 10am and its sunny out crap. Just fishing

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rhurey said:

RCW 46.25.010(6) "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle:...
RCW 46.25.050(1) Drivers of commercial motor vehicles must obtain a commercial driver's license as required under this chapter.

The "In commerce" was added in 2006. I really wish DOL would update their WAC's... Since WAC

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rhurey said:

308-100-010 is from 2000, and lists 46.25.010 as the underlying authority. The legislature changed their minds.

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I hear what you say, but when the DOL puts on your registration commercial vehicle for “non commercial use”. You get held to the requirements of the below. See it’s the director of licensing that finds that special skills are needed. No where does it say in commerce as a requirement. And it doesn’t help the cause when insurance companies give you a commercial policy due to the weight clas of the truck.

[FONT=&quot][h=3]WAC 308-100-010[/h]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Vehicles requiring a commercial driver's license for their operation.[/h]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The director of the department of licensing hereby finds that the following vehicles require special operating skills by the drivers of those vehicles:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) Single vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) Any combination of vehicles where:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](a) The vehicle being driven has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more; or[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](b) The vehicle being towed has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more and the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of the vehicles is 26,001 pounds or more;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) Vehicles designed to transport sixteen or more passengers, including the driver;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](4) Vehicles used in the transportation of hazardous materials that requires the vehicle to be identified with a placard under 49 C.F.R., part 172, subpart F; and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](5) All public school buses, regardless of capacity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All persons driving such vehicles, other than those exempt under RCW 46.25.050, must have a commercial driver's license with the proper classification(s) and endorsements.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As used in this section, "gross vehicle weight rating" has the meanin[/FONT]

DOT is federal law. It is in the constitution that the federal gov has the right to regulate interstate commerce.
They still will give my friend problems with his one ton. They pull him over and ask if he is in business he says no and he is on his way. Still a pain when you are near a city and all these local cops are getting this DOT training. $$$
The 10k trailer thing is only if your combination weight is over 26k. 10k truck 16k trailer your good. I called the main guy in Harrisburg on that one. He said he gets asked that one three or four times a day.

Scroll down click on do I need DOT numbers. I will say I did just go get a drivers log book and will use it just incase I have trouble. Yes I have a class A cdl and pull my M915A2 plus M373A2 with a GVW of 35k. I did Email the Florida dot about the scales and Ag station. Lots of people say don't worry about a military vehicle and the scales but last trip I did hit the scales in Ga. and was green lighted. I think no matter what state I am going through I will run through the scales just to keep them off my back for just a look see. My trailer weight and bridge are not even close to what it could carry. As someone said best to know the laws in the states you are going through.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number

Going through scales when you don't need to may cause its own set of problems. I went through the scales, they stopped me and wanted to see DOT number, authority, etc.

When I explained I was noncommercial the DOT officer told me that by stopping at the scales I had already admitted to being commercial....

So you're ****ed if you do, and ****ed if you don't.

98G said:

Going through scales when you don't need to may cause its own set of problems. I went through the scales, they stopped me and wanted to see DOT number, authority, etc.

When I explained I was noncommercial the DOT officer told me that by stopping at the scales I had already admitted to being commercial....

So you're ****ed if you do, and ****ed if you don't.

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Yea I have seen the signs that says all trucks and some say commercial trucks. I was pulled into the inspection house in Tx. because they thought my GMC3500 needed DOT numbers because they saw my fire extinguisher on my tool box in the bed. They told me not to stop at any scales again good by. Dang if you do Dang if you don't.

I got stopped in TX with the 24 ft trailer behind my F350. Guy came up and said he thought I was a hot shot. I said no, the stuff on the trailer was my own and I was on the way after I got some local info from him. That was the only recent time I've been stopped. Got stopped in the deuce coming out of FL but that was because the GL folks at NAS Pen loaded the crap wrong and I tried towing one of those M720 dolly sets at highway speed which didn't give good optics or good trailer performance. I didn't get ticketed but I was still a card carrying individual at that point.

You mean to say that you actually stopped for the scales? Oh dear lord that would be a first. I don't believe it.............

98G said:

Going through scales when you don't need to may cause its own set of problems. I went through the scales, they stopped me and wanted to see DOT number, authority, etc.

When I explained I was noncommercial the DOT officer told me that by stopping at the scales I had already admitted to being commercial....

So you're ****ed if you do, and ****ed if you don't.

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One of the things that comes up occasionally is how some of these problems are basically due to the several states having different laws. (I think a lot of it, maybe almost all of it, is due to roadside interpretation differences, myself.) Sometimes it seems like a national ruleset would clear up some of the issues, but as far as I can tell, we *LOSE* when the federal government takes something from the states like that.

I have noticed that in more than one state, the state big truck laws are often just references to the FMCSR. The state statutes or administrative code (or both) say something like "The Department incorporates by reference 49 CFR 40, 379, 382, 383, 390, 391, 392, 393, 395, 396, 397, and 399..." and sometimes amend it to change various things, like the definition of "commercial vehicle" or what not. All of the commercial tickets that I have seen show violation of states' statutes or admin codes, not the FMCSR.

The whole thing is WAY too complex, but that seems to be pretty par for law in general.

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