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Fun with PA DOT officer ending in putting me out of service + $1200 in fines

silverstate55

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One of the things that comes up occasionally is how some of these problems are basically due to the several states having different laws. (I think a lot of it, maybe almost all of it, is due to roadside interpretation differences, myself.) Sometimes it seems like a national ruleset would clear up some of the issues, but as far as I can tell, we *LOSE* when the federal government takes something from the states like that.

I have noticed that in more than one state, the state big truck laws are often just references to the FMCSR. The state statutes or administrative code (or both) say something like "The Department incorporates by reference 49 CFR 40, 379, 382, 383, 390, 391, 392, 393, 395, 396, 397, and 399..." and sometimes amend it to change various things, like the definition of "commercial vehicle" or what not. All of the commercial tickets that I have seen show violation of states' statutes or admin codes, not the FMCSR.

The whole thing is WAY too complex, but that seems to be pretty par for law in general.
The only problem I could see with turning it all over to the Feds, is that they'd be all too happy to eliminate any non-commercial exemptions and require a CDL (physical, driver logs, IFTA, etc...) for EVERYTHING over 26K-lbs.
 

silverstate55

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Going through scales when you don't need to may cause its own set of problems. I went through the scales, they stopped me and wanted to see DOT number, authority, etc.

When I explained I was noncommercial the DOT officer told me that by stopping at the scales I had already admitted to being commercial....

So you're ****ed if you do, and ****ed if you don't.

Lesson learned, never pull into scales again! :mrgreen:
 

98G

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Lesson learned, never pull into scales again! :mrgreen:
Different rules for different states. I have recently learned that NE, SD, IA and MN want everything with a GVWR over 8,000lbs, and every pickup truck towing any type of trailer to go through the scales. This is for noncommercial as well as commercial vehicles.

Seriously, they want the mini trucks towing a lawnmower trailer to go over the scales.

I learned this on the side of the road, while stopped for passing up the scales in my pickup. The minitruck and lawnmower driving by us were the example pointed at - "even that?" , "Yes, even that."

The other end if the spectrum is California (of all places!). Their scales clearly say "No Pickups" on the signs.

I've come to the conclusion it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do. When they want to stop you and write tickets they'll always find opportunity to do so. Right/wrong went out of it some time ago.

I won't drive tired, sleepy, or unsafely. I'll maintain my equipment. And I'll do my part to discourage taxation by citation by means of showing up in court to contest every one of them, even when it costs more than the fine.

CastleBravo and silverstate55 are spot on regarding federalizing it. That would invariably lead to CDL and related requirements for everything beyond a prius... and it's the related requirements and hassles that are the problem, not the CDL. Everyone who drives should be eager to demonstrate a high level of competency in vehicle operating skills. It's the logbook, the special insurance, the authority, the "no probable cause required" and all the hassles and expenses that we want to avoid...

I've rambled enough....
 
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snowtrac nome

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I am glad I'm isolated off the road system, where I don't have to wonder into stupidity like that. once a year an enforcement officer comes up I go through an inspection than I'm good to go
 

Jbulach

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...I learned this on the side of the road, while stopped for passing up the scales in my pickup. The minitruck and lawnmower driving by us were the example pointed at - "even that?" , "Yes, even that."...
What state did this happen in? Where you hauling or towing anything that may have encouraged them to stop you?
 

aleigh

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As others have suggested, I carry around print-outs of the actual laws for WA state (my license is out of WA right now) for CDL requirements showing I am in the clear. I also have the FMCSA laws for the exemptions (private property transport), and I keep it with my insurance paperwork. I don't expect any of these guys to be trained up on the nuances of driving around a private party military vehicle with a guy on an out of state drivers license, I just don't. I also get it that we do have the hotshot situation and that's bringing up a certain level of enforcement (or revenue collection if you prefer, but you have to figure there ARE a lot of actual violators). OP's rig shouts hotshot. If some guy tried to write me wrong like OP here I would go for the supervisor on the basis. If I wound up with the tickets, then that's what court is for. Checks and balances. Sucks, but better than no recourse at all.

I haven't gotten pulled over in the LMTV yet, whether or not I had plates on it (I ran for a long time without because I was too lazy to do a mount - bad idea, just telling the truth). I blow all the scales whether or not I am legally supposed to go in (Like WA). I went in one time in WA early on as an experiment on I-90 and the guy was like, why are you here, military doesn't weigh. He thought I was Pvt. Dunce and my buddies in the motor pool had played a joke on me. I told him I was non-military private-party and he just sort of sighed and said don't bother coming in. I told him it was required and he literally eye-rolled - now I was Ned Flanders instead of Pvt Dunce - and waved me out. I think we have to realize that there's a pragmatic, practical attitude here regardless of the specific letter of the law, and that letter of the law did not have us in mind. These guys are mostly just trying to do their jobs to keep the roads safe. I've gotten lit into the scales (weigh in motion) and blown them anyways. I strongly suspect I roll by and they just make certain assumptions that I am military and who am I to dissuade them. NONE of this is advice.

I've driven unimogs around with no plates at all in western states and never had a problem. Maybe the attitudes is more revenue orientated in the east, I don't know. I've lived in VT and MA and certainly I can see that possibility. Out here (excepting California, which like Mass. is not America imo) if you get pulled over it seems like it's because they think the truck is cool and want to see it. I feel like I would have to drive a really, really, really long time in a M/V to actually encounter a problem.

I hear you all on the advice to stay silent but I just try to be reasonable when I interact at traffic stops (I've been pulled over many times in cars). You know don't say anything meaningful but don't silent treatment them either. Try to be friendly. Act helpfully stupid. A couple of encounters I've literally had to say the same sentence 10 times like I was autistic. "But I'm not commercial" "But I'm not commercial" "But I'm not commercial" etc. Just have a super simple story and stick to it. Show them the paper. Most cops are easygoing once they realize you are not going to shoot them. I've been pulled a couple times in Jeeps with a laundry list of issues (who has mudflaps, overhanging fenders, blah blah blah on their rock crawler) and the cops just sort of point it out but I've never been written for an equipment problem.

OP - you are doing the right thing, lawyer up, at least to the point it's non-moving. At that point it's just whatever's cheaper, fight it or not... I love NV, I got a ticket in vegas and they let me plead it down to a non-moving by bribing them ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE. It was a list of choices. God bless them.
 

CARMAN

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Virginia is very friendly to in state trucks. Ours never had to be DOT. As long as you stay in state. Problem was when we started picking up own loads up from PA and MD. MD sucks, but once you get DOT #'s even for one or two trucks, it links your entire fleet together. Then there are all the other BS fees like UCR, DOT, DMV. It gets pricey but if you F#*% something up all your registered vehicles get pinned down DOT or not. But never had an issue in VA. Only MD. But you can drive the biggest RV on the planet with a regular DL.
 

TechnoWeenie

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But never had an issue in VA. Only MD. But you can drive the biggest RV on the planet with a regular DL.
Yup.. I hated MD.... Full size pickup towing a trailer with lawnmower and weedwhacker and OMGZ all **** breaks loose, but 80 y/o grandma driving a converted MCI pushing 45ft and near 50k lbs and she's just fine on her regular license she's had since the 60's....
 

snowtrac nome

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The other thing I notice there isn't a daily brake inspection done on that thing because there looks to be no way any one is going to squeeze under it to check them.
 

BnaditCorps

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Apparently there are 2 things going on in PA. 1) DOT is subcontracted out 2) that company gets commission. So I got written a $1200 ticket by a rent a cop.... (there was a trooper there which now I understand was only there to make it official). and 3) They sit around letterkenny looking for trucks like mine with out of state plates because they had more than a few stories about similar DOT things happening around here.
Numbers 2 and 3 are the most disconcerting.

First, the company gets a commissions, that right there is a red flag. They should only get what they charge, with no strings attached.

Two, they actively look for trucks that are from out of state in an effort to fine them. I don't know about you, but that would be the literal definition of entrapment to me.
 

Floridianson

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**** hath no fury like an Ugly DOT occifer that never gets laid................ Keep calm and bid on............
**** has no fury like a tired trucker.
In the late 80's in Northern Virginia there was a cop running around. His wife ran off with a trucker and he hated truck drivers and mess with us bad coming out of the quarry. He also stopped trucks on I95 and RT 66 all time for no reason to hassle them. They found him on the side of RT. 66 with his ass kicked bad and no trucker to be found.
 
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