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Waterlogged 803a

smokem joe

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Well my neighbor down the street has been watching me get my 803a up and going so he decided he'd get one himself. He didn't tell me until he asked me to bring my tractor down and unload it off the shipping truck though. I would have told him to pass on it. Pipe coming up off the muffler and no provisions to stop water from getting in. Auction site claims it turned over. I can't get it to move. I drained 2 quarts of water out of the oil pan. Best thing would probably be a full rebuild. Anyone rebuilt one and know ballpark cost? Are parts available to do this? Or is he better getting a 400Hz unit and taking the engine from it?
 

jamawieb

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Take the head off first and see how much damage is done. I've had 3 units with exhaust flaps missing and water in the motors. If your patient and take your time, usually you can get them free, then use a hone to resurface the bore without a full rebuild. I had one with a LOT of pitting in the head/bore due to water, that I was extremely worried about but it now has 6,000 hours on it since it left me and still running strong. These are very robust engines.
 
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smokem joe

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Take the head off first and see how much damage is done. I've have 3 units with exhaust flaps missing and water in the motors. If your patient and take your time, usually you can get them free, then use a hone to resurface the bore without a full rebuild. I had one with a LOT of pitting in the head/bore due to water, that I was extremely worried about but it now has 6,000 hours on it since it left me and still running strong. These are supper robust engines.

I did see your thread about multiple units you got going. I considered trying that. Problem is I will have to do all the work on it and my time is limited! Installing another engine would be my quickest solution. I wish he would have consulted me first before purchasing since there are quite a few decent looking ones on the auction sites now.
 

Guyfang

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If you cant do an engine swap, with two people in 8-10 hours, you need to take up singing in a rock and roll band. Granted, the first time may take longer, but two men, who have read the maintenance manual, and each has his own tools, no problem. Got to do some prep work, and have an overhead lift capability. But should not be a problem.

ALTHOUGH, there was a gentleman here in the forum, that took months to do it. We THINK there was glue, or something, holding the engine to the flywheel. Still not sure what it was, but he did a great job getting it done in the end. Without explosives.

To get at the heads, to look see, you have to do some of the same work as replacing the engine, so I would at least start looking at the heads in any case. if it looks like a PITA, then simply go on with the swap.
 

jamawieb

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I did see your thread about multiple units you got going. I considered trying that. Problem is I will have to do all the work on it and my time is limited! Installing another engine would be my quickest solution. I wish he would have consulted me first before purchasing since there are quite a few decent looking ones on the auction sites now.
First time I did an engine swap, it took 2 full days. The first time I took the head off a unit and unstuck the motor, then got it running was about 4 hours. From then I decided I wasn't going to take the engine out anymore unless it was absolutely necessary. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL!
 

Guyfang

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There are some short cuts. And after doing it a few times, they just jump right out at you. And when you spend your life doing this stuff, it sure helps. I got to really enjoying doing engine jobs, or main AC jobs. Turn on some kick arch rock n' roll, and the time just flew by!! If your helper fits to you, then it's even better. I love it when I was working, and just when I needed a tool, out stretched a hand, with the tool I needed, without a word. Or I would notice that RIGHT now, a hand was needed. And you reach over, hold something till its in place, and go on with your job, all without missing a beat. When you find a partner like that, life is good!
 

smokem joe

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In there Truck trader ad they list 4 cylinders also , but it is probably limited.
Great! I looked for that online and couldn't find it. I will call them when they open up after the holidays for sure. If they have one reasonable it will be easier to switch it out than repair the other. I found a drain date of 3/13 on it. That means it might have been taking water for 4 years. No way of knowing how and when it was stored.
 

smokem joe

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If you cant do an engine swap, with two people in 8-10 hours, you need to take up singing in a rock and roll band. Granted, the first time may take longer, but two men, who have read the maintenance manual, and each has his own tools, no problem. Got to do some prep work, and have an overhead lift capability. But should not be a problem.

ALTHOUGH, there was a gentleman here in the forum, that took months to do it. We THINK there was glue, or something, holding the engine to the flywheel. Still not sure what it was, but he did a great job getting it done in the end. Without explosives.

To get at the heads, to look see, you have to do some of the same work as replacing the engine, so I would at least start looking at the heads in any case. if it looks like a PITA, then simply go on with the swap.
Half the sheet metal is already off it to get a good look at it. One side was caved in so he was taking it apart to fix that already when I found the water in the crankcase. It doesn't look that bad to take out. I've read the TM and looked it over and should be pretty easy compared to working on some modern equipment I work on!

Guy the TM makes reference to either pulling the engine and alternator at once or just the alternator. I didn't see anything about just pulling the engine. Just as easy to pull both and separate on the ground? I ave a cherry picker so pulling it is no problem. The lift hook on the engine looks to be set up to pull both at once from one point of lift.

My helper is over 70 so it may take us awhile to figure it out for the first time. He has had plenty of gas engine experience but no diesel at all. Pulling it should be about the same in this case though so I'm sure it will be a help to have another set of hands familiar with tools.
 

Guyfang

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You have to pull both out at the same time.

You have to lift both out, then remove the Main AC from the flywheel. With some gen sets, you can get your hand in between the Main AC cooling fins, between the Main AC and engine, to take out the mounting bolts. Not the 802 or 803. The trick is to remove as little as possible from the front end. Remove the back end completely, use the cherry picker to pull it out, and set it on the ground. Then remove the rear cover on the Main AC, and go from there. take it all off until you get to the engine flywheel. Engines do NOT come with a flywheel. Where the TM was talking about only taking out the main AC, that just what they meant. You block up the engine, and then remove the main AC. But that's only when you do JUST the main gen. Try to only remove things that hold the rear housing to the skid. Remove the wire harness only so far as it connects to the engine. Then stop. The speed control, only until it no longer attaches to the engine. And so on, an so on. Then take the bolts out that hold the rear housing to the skid. Then lift it up all in one piece. You are going to overlook things. Its your first time. Go slow. Do not force anything. if its not coming easy, something is still attached. LOOK at everything twice, and then one more time. Its better then screwing something up. This should be old hat to you. I am just a nag.

A tip, to putting it back together easy. Since this gen set is a bit flimsy, often putting it together is a PITA. The holes for the screws almost never line up. You have to push, and pull, and hammer on it, using a lots of words you cant use in church. So after going through this several times, I went to the tool trash can, and found every broken punch I could find. Then I ground them down so they fit into the screw holes, with a taper. Then when I set the components in place, I started shoving the punches into the holes. No bolts, just punches. When I had punches is several holes, and everything lined up, in went the screws and nuts. Get a shi* load of fasteners before you start the job. All the sizes you need. USE the washers! The skin is aluminum. The screws with ribs on them tear up the holes. If you use the washes, your holes will stay normal sized, and not grow ever larger. I always use a battery powered screwdriver. I don't know what the hel* you call them in English, (akkuschrauber in German!!) but brother, you WILL be glad you did at the end of the day. There are a million GD screws on this set. Make sure your magnet is handy for all the screws you drop inside the set. Remove the side door hinges at the gen set side, not the door side. When you put them back on, get the screws hand tight. Then shut the doors. Use some wedges, or screwdrivers to center the doors, Then hit the screws with the akkuschrauber. When the are tight, everything opens and shuts easy.

Do get the glow plug wires tight, When they are loose, you WILL overheat the wire ends, causing the plastic and wire covering to burn. Take your time. You don't have anyone watching over your shoulder and holding a stop watch. Do take a gander at your radiator. I don't mark wires. I take them off, and look at the wire diagrams to replace them. Why, because if some fool wired things wrong a long time ago and far away, you repeat his blunder. I am a fan of lock tight. Pictures speak louder the 10000000 words. If you think it can be put back together wrong, take a picture. Have the books out for use, read the procedure once or twice BEFORE you do it. If you see something ain't right, fix it. You will never have a better chance to look and repair, then when the whole kit and caboodle is out and on the ground. Do check all four motor mounts for cracks. Tiny ones are not a worry. Big honkers are a problem. Look at the parts manual before putting things back together. Yes, you CAN get done without a handful of "Extra" parts.

OK, I have run on enough.

you have no idea how much I would like to do this job. And as long as we had good rock n' roll, and loud, I would work for free. Well, maybe a beer afterwards.
 
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smokem joe

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Guy this is exactly what I was looking for and couldn't find anywhere! You just can't beat years of hands on experience. I've pulled plenty of engines out of vehicles and equipment so it doesn't worry me, but this will make it easier. Looking at it I think I would have removed the front and tried to leave the back of the unit as much as I could, but I will definitely take your advice. We use cordless impact drivers over here. I think that is what you are referring to. I have 5 or 6 of them floating around the shop and wouldn't want it any other way. I was able to zip the aluminum skin off the top in 5 minutes with those. It would probably take an hour without it. That is helpful advise on reinstalling the doors too.

Glow plug wires on this unit already are overheated. The plastic is dark and kind of melted. Given the shape of the unit I was going to check the relay out as I suspect a sticking relay. First thing I checked when I saw the wire ends was how tight the wires were and they were as tight as I would install them. I take pictures of everything I take apart! It has saved me so many times. Especially if it is something that gets started and then finished up a month later! I'll will mark wires but double check them to the diagram upon reassembly. Being able to read the schematic is the hardest part for me. I also have mine that is up and running and producing voltage so I can always look at that one too. I'm a big fan of a complete inspection while it is apart. Given the way the wiring is in these units I see a few points that are prime spots for something to rub through. A piece of wire loom over those areas while it is apart is cheap insurance.

If you were in the states I'd tell you to come on over! The shop has a good stereo that goes plenty loud and all the beer you wanted after it was back together. It actually look like it will not be to hard and kind of a fun project. Other than trying to keep the shop warm enough with wood heat (currently about 5F here outside) it will be a fun day!
 

smokem joe

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Nobody answering phones at Adelman's today. Guess they are still closed. The machine shop I use said find a runner instead of rebuilding that one for sure.
 

smokem joe

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Adelman's wants $1300 for engines!! The picture they sent me was of one wet stacked badly too. I think I'll look at the next auction for him. I could probably get a complete unit for that price almost!
 

porkysplace

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Adelman's wants $1300 for engines!! The picture they sent me was of one wet stacked badly too. I think I'll look at the next auction for him. I could probably get a complete unit for that price almost!
Man that's a big difference from the 2 cylinders , I guess that's why they didn't put the price in the ad.
 
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