blew fan clutch hose

NormB · Apr 1, 2018

Sort of.

Pressure hose from cadillac valve to shroud connector came off.

Had installed valve about a month ago, used new piece of hose. Fuel line, 50psi. What was I thinking, right? It was what was on it, I didn’t give it any thought. Bled system, tested fan/TDM/clutch - runs great. Couple of local drives, no problem.

Took out for a ride today, temps at 200F, about 12mile RT, backing up into driveway heard that unmistakeable growl/whine of a power steering pump. Shut down and looked under truck. Great, blown pump.

Opened hood and saw this:

So maybe not the pump.

I’ll get it cleaned up later, but my question for the group is, which hose to use?

The picture in the manual (will, hopefully, resize):

Shows hose #26 as part #12469061

Which is, obviously, NOT what’s on it. Said part # having actual fittings.

Guess I got lucky running it these past 18 months this didn’t happen on the road somewhere.

Anyone else have similar issues with this connection/hose? Is this a “kludge”, field-expedient fix, standard, or is there something else wrong here I’m missing?

Thanks.

Norm

simp5782 · Apr 1, 2018

Take the fitting out on that end. It is pipe thread on that one side. you can see the teflon tape. Pull it out. Put a 90 degree pipe to JIC in it. Have a new hose made with crimp or reusable fittings on it. Do the same on the valve end. Remove the fitting. install a pipe to JIC fitting. install the new hose. Can all be done with what is available at NAPA usually. Or a hydraulic shop tomorrow morning.

You would be fine with 3/8 hose. Or use the 1/2" in the picture. Up to you. 1/2" line has a higher price tag. the hydraulic line would be a pretty much life long fix for the truck. Use #6 or #8 JICs.

If the pipe thread on that broke end is 1/2" use #8 JIC if its 3/8" use # 6 jic fittings. Easier to use male JIC fittings on each end of the components and use a hose that has females on both ends.

Action · Apr 1, 2018

High pressure lines ususlly dong have hose clamps on them. It takes 90 psi of aor to operate the clutch.

juanprado · Apr 1, 2018

I would concur to make a crimped hose or get the oe with the reusable fittings with the proper hydraulic hose which is typically double walled and fiber reinforced.
The elbow might be the wrong one also if using the oe hose.
What is on the Cadillac valve end?

NormB · Apr 1, 2018

Thanks, Juan, Action, Simp7862 (if that’s your real name).

Wrong fitting, wrong hose, will try and order in the AM (MacMotors has ‘em). FEDEX from PA is about 24 hrs, if they’re open Easter Monday.

Easier/cheaper just to buy the right part. Have it made up at NAPA? No thanks, they’re morons at the local shop, but in a sane world a good suggestion.

I’ll keep y’all posted.

frank8003 · Apr 1, 2018

Oh Noooooo for Easter Holiday off
I suggest, could be wrong, put it back to as was designed for another five years or more.

Sintorion · Apr 1, 2018

Wrong size hose clamp. I had the exact same thing happen that I blew the hose off. Mine happened while doing about 45mph and the fan kicked on. Got a blast of fluid on the wind shield followed by a total loss of power steering and brakes. Not a fun experience. I guess during the rebuild they just slapped any clamp they could find and that one was maxed out, but obviously needed a few more turns.

General Hood · Apr 1, 2018

NormB said:
Sort of.

Pressure hose from cadillac valve to shroud connector came off.

Had installed valve about a month ago, used new piece of hose. Fuel line, 50psi. What was I thinking, right? It was what was on it, I didn’t give it any thought. Bled system, tested fan/TDM/clutch - runs great. Couple of local drives, no problem.

Took out for a ride today, temps at 200F, about 12mile RT, backing up into driveway heard that unmistakeable growl/whine of a power steering pump. Shut down and looked under truck. Great, blown pump.

Opened hood and saw this:

View attachment 723860

So maybe not the pump.

I’ll get it cleaned up later, but my question for the group is, which hose to use?

The picture in the manual (will, hopefully, resize):

View attachment 723861

Shows hose #26 as part #12469061

Which is, obviously, NOT what’s on it. Said part # having actual fittings.

Guess I got lucky running it these past 18 months this didn’t happen on the road somewhere.

Anyone else have similar issues with this connection/hose? Is this a “kludge”, field-expedient fix, standard, or is there something else wrong here I’m missing?

Thanks.

Norm

If funds allow, I might suggest replacing all the lines and clamps in the hydraulic system while you're down for maint., especially if they show any cracking / hardening with age.
Don't forget to bleed the system according to the TM, slow but necessary process. Let us know when you're back up and running

papakb · Apr 1, 2018

When I replaced this hose on my 996A1 I used an Aeroquip hose with flare fittings on both ends that I bought off of Ebay. Good high pressure rated hose and aircraft fittings. Haven't had any issues with it in 15 years. I've never trusted hose clamps on hydraulic lines.

dilvoy · Apr 2, 2018

The original hose spec was J189 and Goodyear brand was used for the early Humvees and maybe on later ones too. Part number 65221 gets you a box of 25" of the correct 3/8" Power Steering Return Hose.

NormB · Apr 11, 2018

Curiously, as I poke through the manuals, it looks like the low-pressure fittings were original issue; the high-pressure fittings later, but I bought them, installed them, bled the power steering system by the instructions everyone else seems to swear by (the later ones, with the pump mfr advice incorporated), everythign ran great, no bubbles, tested solenoid/hose fittings/bled clutch hose, all good. No noises, no leaks, yadda yadda.

Rest of the steps in the flow sheet done, I turned off the engine and heard, just a second or two after, fluid dripping into the drain pain I’d left underneath the engine. LOTS of fluid. From the CAP.

Opened the filler cap on the PS pump and it just poured out, foamy as anything.

Going to let it cool off and try this again, I think, but I’m going through the troubleshooting flow charts (TM 9-2320-280-20-1) and here’s a question for those following this:

ABSENT a power steering analyzer is there a definitive way to to tell if this is power steering or blockage, or what?

Not sure where to go next.

Truck ran FINE for the quick 12mile RT last weekend, blew the hose off the fan side of the clutch hose backing up into my driveway.

Thanks in advance.

General Hood · Apr 11, 2018

NormB said:
Curiously, as I poke through the manuals, it looks like the low-pressure fittings were original issue; the high-pressure fittings later, but I bought them, installed them, bled the power steering system by the instructions everyone else seems to swear by (the later ones, with the pump mfr advice incorporated), everythign ran great, no bubbles, tested solenoid/hose fittings/bled clutch hose, all good. No noises, no leaks, yadda yadda.

Rest of the steps in the flow sheet done, I turned off the engine and heard, just a second or two after, fluid dripping into the drain pain I’d left underneath the engine. LOTS of fluid. From the CAP.

Opened the filler cap on the PS pump and it just poured out, foamy as anything.

Going to let it cool off and try this again, I think, but I’m going through the troubleshooting flow charts (TM 9-2320-280-20-1) and here’s a question for those following this:

ABSENT a power steering analyzer is there a definitive way to to tell if this is power steering or blockage, or what?

Not sure where to go next.

Truck ran FINE for the quick 12mile RT last weekend, blew the hose off the fan side of the clutch hose backing up into my driveway.

Thanks in advance.

Wow, I hate to say it, but this sure sounds similar to the ordeal I had not long ago. I will say this, the final time I bled the system with front end jacked up with tires off the ground-I bled the system per TM, let it sit for 4 hours, then followed the procedure again, then let it rest overnight and followed the bleeding procedure 2 more times the following day.
Apparently it doesn't take too much air in the lines to cause an eruption at the filler cap when you turn off the engine. Hope you figure out your problem and are back on the road soon

NormB · Apr 12, 2018

General Hood said:
Wow, I hate to say it, but this sure sounds similar to the ordeal I had not long ago. I will say this, the final time I bled the system with front end jacked up with tires off the ground-I bled the system per TM, let it sit for 4 hours, then followed the procedure again, then let it rest overnight and followed the bleeding procedure 2 more times the following day.
Apparently it doesn't take too much air in the lines to cause an eruption at the filler cap when you turn off the engine. Hope you figure out your problem and are back on the road soon

I thought of you when I wrote this up.

I'd intended to replace all the hoses when I bought the thing two years (18 months and counting) ago, just never got around to it, or a few other things.

Got the correct hose ordered from Mac Motors, will drain system and do some plug and play soon.

Meanwhile, I have the truck on the driveway still, it starts, PS works great, fan kicks in when unplugged, no weird noises anywhere.

I did a search here for "power steering analyzer" and came up with several posts on foaming PS fluid and one from "Infidel Got Me" who recommended a different method of purging the system. I did this last night a few times and, since the system was already warm, I've let it sit overnight and should have a few minutes later to take a look, add more fluid if needed and, hopefully, back the truck up into my garage where I'm not rolling downhill on my creeper.

I actually jacked up the front wheels yesterday AM, had to use TWO 4x4 pine blocks (from fence post pieces I keep around) just to get the wheels up where I can turn the wheels freely. THAT was interesting. I have a pair of the military heavy duty wheel chocks and I put jackstands underneath for insurance.

After doing THAT, "Infidel's" method seems to make sense and I CAN see bubbles coming up.

I'm thinking there's a possibility of a leak somewhere, having read of others' problems.

Only thing is, I can't for the life of me find the diagram I had somewhere (or online anywhere) showing the routing of the power steering system pipes with outlets, inlets/returns marked clearly. Even in the parts manuals, and "shop" manuals, the hoses aren't marked as such - unless I missed it in one of the instructions.

I'll get back when I have something more to report.

Oh, and I went ahead and blew this month's HMMWV allowance on (the hose and) a Kent-Moore power steering analyzer (military, new in box), you never know.

Thanks again.

juanprado · Apr 12, 2018

Interesting that the foaming problem comes up frequently.

From my parts selling days, I know Power Steering fluid can be interchanged with Dexron as same viscosity. Many OE's use power stg oil and other half use tranny fluid. What I seem to remember is that 10w power stg oil has anti foaming additives specifically for power steering. I suspect that Dexron does not because in a transmission that is not an issue?

No, I am not advocating changing fluid type just rambling if the engineers missed something by Specing dexron to have a common fluid with the tranny for military supply logistics not knowing of the potential foaming problem when there is an issue. It would be interesting to know if anyone had used power steering fluid in any gm style hydroboost and what was the experience/feedback?

All the best with your speedy recovery.....

Sintorion · Apr 12, 2018

NormB said:
I thought of you when I wrote this up.

I'd intended to replace all the hoses when I bought the thing two years (18 months and counting) ago, just never got around to it, or a few other things.

Got the correct hose ordered from Mac Motors, will drain system and do some plug and play soon.

Meanwhile, I have the truck on the driveway still, it starts, PS works great, fan kicks in when unplugged, no weird noises anywhere.

I did a search here for "power steering analyzer" and came up with several posts on foaming PS fluid and one from "Infidel Got Me" who recommended a different method of purging the system. I did this last night a few times and, since the system was already warm, I've let it sit overnight and should have a few minutes later to take a look, add more fluid if needed and, hopefully, back the truck up into my garage where I'm not rolling downhill on my creeper.

I actually jacked up the front wheels yesterday AM, had to use TWO 4x4 pine blocks (from fence post pieces I keep around) just to get the wheels up where I can turn the wheels freely. THAT was interesting. I have a pair of the military heavy duty wheel chocks and I put jackstands underneath for insurance.

After doing THAT, "Infidel's" method seems to make sense and I CAN see bubbles coming up.

I'm thinking there's a possibility of a leak somewhere, having read of others' problems.

Only thing is, I can't for the life of me find the diagram I had somewhere (or online anywhere) showing the routing of the power steering system pipes with outlets, inlets/returns marked clearly. Even in the parts manuals, and "shop" manuals, the hoses aren't marked as such - unless I missed it in one of the instructions.

I'll get back when I have something more to report.

Oh, and I went ahead and blew this month's HMMWV allowance on (the hose and) a Kent-Moore power steering analyzer (military, new in box), you never know.

Thanks again.

After dealing with my own foaming bubbling mess of failed bleeding shortcuts, I can tell you following the process exactly as outlined in the TM works. It makes no sense to me that it has to be to that extreme, but I tried every way I could think of and it wasn't until I got it up in the air that my problems went away. I can sympathize with you on the process of getting the two front tires in the air. You get new appreciation of ground clearance when you have get safely creative.

NormB · Apr 12, 2018

Sintorion said:
After dealing with my own foaming bubbling mess of failed bleeding shortcuts, I can tell you following the process exactly as outlined in the TM works. It makes no sense to me that it has to be to that extreme, but I tried every way I could think of and it wasn't until I got it up in the air that my problems went away. I can sympathize with you on the process of getting the two front tires in the air. You get new appreciation of ground clearance when you have get safely creative.

Well, after doing it the OTHER way, start engine, turn hard left, turn off, repeat fifteen minutes later to the right, and again, and again, until the foam went away.

Of course, cranking on the hose clamps at the pump seemed to help.

Ahem.

New hose is on order, have clamps, have truck in the garage. Managed to back it up, PS system pressurized, no leaks.

Looks like I’ll be going through this all again shortly, but like I said, I’d intended on doing it anyway (replacing hoses), and I can use the workout; I’ll be sporting Popeye forearms soon, I can feel it.

NormB · Apr 15, 2018

If I had a hose full of nickels...

Specifically, if I had THIS hose: 6490610019

http://www.nsn-now.com/Indexing/PublicSearch.aspx

Which I didn’t, so after pouring over the web looking for one of any of branded part numbers listed, the ONLY one I could find was the stock part numbered hose and most everyone was out of stock. The GM part # 2410 has been superceded, and yeah, no one has that either.

I ordered the last roll from MacMotors. Need 12 feet (roughly), whole roll’s another $20, figured I’d sell it to someone who needed it down the road. Or wind up with CONEXes full of odds and ends for my estate sale someday.

NOTE the specs on the hose in question listed on nsn-now. Burst test 1000 psi, max operating pressure 250 lbs, material polyethylene. Am. General must’ve had some good reasons to go with this stuff.

FIgured I should buy what meets MILSPEC, right?

What I got in the mail yesterday was this:

Clearly repackaged, and NOT the hose I’d ordered, not what’s labeled.

SAE 30R6 (and this took some doing) only has a working pressure of 20 PSI and has been superceded by 30R7 (50PSI, I think), again, not what I ordered, not what’s overkill-specified for the hydraulic/power steering pump lines.

I’m off today. I was going to replace all the hoses, bleed the system, and take my truck out for a ride, but now I’m going to print out the NSN-now spec sheet, head down to NAPA or Advance auto and ask them to find that hose - ONE of them - in their store room if they’ve got it.

Why is this so difficult? Should be easy to just by power steering hose. Maybe not so easy to by AMG spec’d hose, but geez, you’d figure searching with the part number on the web would give you (me) SOMEONE who has the right stuff.

I’ll call MacMotors in the AM, as for a return shipping label.

Bummer.

Action · Apr 15, 2018

You can go to a htdraulic shop, but you won't be able to use a hose clamp on that stuff.
Also, I can'ttell from the pics in the first post, but if you plan to reuse the fitting on your fan shroud, make sure if is compatible with a hose clamp. It should onlt have 1 hump (double flare?) at the end of the fitting. If there are 2 or three slopes adges around the fitting, that should have a crimped end on it.

General Hood · Apr 15, 2018

I replaced my lines with the overkill stuff, just because I was having so much trouble with the system. Hoses should be good for many years to come

NormB · Apr 15, 2018

Action said:
You can go to a htdraulic shop, but you won't be able to use a hose clamp on that stuff.
Also, I can'ttell from the pics in the first post, but if you plan to reuse the fitting on your fan shroud, make sure if is compatible with a hose clamp. It should onlt have 1 hump (double flare?) at the end of the fitting. If there are 2 or three slopes adges around the fitting, that should have a crimped end on it.

Thing is, I started with the low pressure fittings (single hump, hose clamp), which shows up in the repair manuals, NOT in the parts manuals - those show the later, Aeroquip-type fittings with a bleeder fitting near the solenoid. I upgraded to the newer fittings.

Question now is, who has the correct hose for this?

And Lonnie - Gen’l Hood - I’ll take your suggestion under advisement if nothing else works out. I mean, there’s overkill, and there’s “the last thing I want ever again is a blown hose” - which is pretty much what I’m after. Weakest link and all that.

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