Waterless coolant

What’s going on guys just wanted to ask a question P8038 how do you guys feel about waterless coolant
Guy I expect you to chime in on this one


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I use coolantless coolant in my gensets (aka Air). However if I had a genset with a radiator I would seriously consider switching over to the waterless coolant type. Reading the Wiki on it, what's not to like?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterless_coolant

The freeze temp is only 5* lower than typical coolant. So whats the real benifit if the systsm isnt designed for it?

Lemme think? Delo ELC @ $9.42 or Evans Heavy Duty Waterless @ $52.36?

If it ain't broke!

Like Csheath said, if it aint broke, don't fix it. Now, I have seen gen sets where the fan ate the radiator up. Maybe, but only maybe, would I convert it. I would have to consider all the cost differences along with dealing with parts/systems that I have no experance with, and no history to look at in relation to MBF. Meantime Between Failure. Also, is this waterless coolant a bio hazard? It very costly, and if I need to use special protocols to get rid of it, that's not good. In fact, before I go farther, I would say I need to get smarter on the subject matter. But convert a perfictly good gen set? Don't think so.

$10gal vs $53gal. Wow i wouldnt think the price would be that much. You can do many rad flushes at that price dif.

Wouldnt the fan eating the rad be more of a bearing issue?

I wouldn't switch out perfectly good radiator coolant either. However, if doing a drain/flush I might consider it due to the advertised benefits. The benefits, according to the marketing info, is that its a permanent lifetime coolant, less corrosion due to no water added (traditional coolant is 50/50 mix of water to coolant ratio), higher boiling point and lower freeze point. Since it does not use any water it actually retains more heat yet has a higher boiling point. So...in a diesel engine that would seem to be a good thing to help with thermal efficiency and reduce the chance of wet stacking.

It would actually be more environmentally friendly (regular ethylene glycol coolant is a biohazard) due to it being permanent there are no radiator flushes required so less of a biohazard over time (no drains to discard). The downsides are upfront costs and reusability if needing to drain and do a repair on coolant system (although you could probably filter out any solid contaminates and reuse unless it had oil/fuel in it).

If I were doing a drain & chemical flush, or had a new unit, I would definitely consider using it.

Here is an interesting in-depth thread discussing the pro's n con's: http://forums.aaca.org/topic/175809-waterless-coolant-experience/

The popular “waterless coolant” is basically pure glycol
which does not mix well with small percentages of water.
That’s why you should never go below a 70/30% radiator
ratio.
It is much “thicker” than water so it takes more HP to
turn the water pump. It also does not have the heat ,
conductivty of water. The new high horse power engines
of various engine manufacturers have all tried it and
watched cylinder heads and exhaust valves have serious
heat problems. (Warped cylinder heads etc.) One major
domestic manufacturer had a
blow out of a aluminum head at the exhaust manifold
joint.
Now the marketing of “waterless coolant” is first rate,
they even have a well know former late night talk show
host endorsement. Most people would never push there
powerplants to these limits so they swear by it.
I just use good antifreeze and distilled water and have
never had a problem.
But I would like to hear more facts if and when they come
available?

Interesting discussion. My 803A runs at about 185 degrees which I find high but seems to be the norm. With this coolant the temps are apparently going to be even higher. Will the 803A Overtemp sensor cutout?

Bmxenbrett said:

$10gal vs $53gal. Wow i wouldn't think the price would be that much. You can do many rad flushes at that price dif.

Wouldnt the fan eating the rad be more of a bearing issue?

Click to expand...

Of course its a bearing failure. But when everything stops turning, you have to replace the radiator, coolant and fan. I might, said might, consider changing over to waterless, at that time. But still, like I said before, have to get real smart on all other considerations before doing so. Reading some of the above posts, has helped me understand a bit more, but I would like to dive deeper into it to get smarter.

Yeah, I'm with guy & others...more information needed before making the jump to waterless coolant.

However, on the surface it would seem that water cooled diesel gensets used for home backup purposes are typically subjected to shorter runtimes with less load during ~monthly test runs (unless load banked). Therefore, there may be some benefit to using a waterless coolant in a diesel generator if it truly retains more heat up to a point. It would seem that by storing more coolant heat it would generate higher cylinder head temps and thereby higher exhaust manifold temps, that "should in theory" reduce the potential for wet stacking & cylinder/valve fouling.

As an aside, I remember a recall in my 2004 Dodge 5.9L Cummins engine where an ECU flash was required. After the reflash the engine in colder weather would increase the idle when it sensed lower coolant temp at some (?) programmed coolant temp threshold. As I recall, the engine idle went from the pre-flash of 800 RPM cold to 1200 RPM cold post flash to prevent what was termed "unburned fuel cylinder wash down" due to too low operating temperature at idle.

By comparison, since the MEP-002a and -003a are air cooled, & oil cooled via the oil cooler, they rarely incur wet stacking issues due to running higher cylinder head/exhaust manifold temps.

On the other hand, in a gasoline engine I would only run whatever it was designed for (mfg coolant spec.)

Guyfang said:

Of course its a bearing failure. But when everything stops turning, you have to replace the radiator, coolant and fan. I might, said might, consider changing over to waterless, at that time. But still, like I said before, have to get real smart on all other considerations before doing so. Reading some of the above posts, has helped me understand a bit more, but I would like to dive deeper into it to get smarter.

Click to expand...

Yes your banking on every other part of the cooling systsm lasting a "lifetime" too.

The MSDS for Evans waterless coolant says it's mostly ethylene glycol, so it doesn't seem very different from buying full strength ordinary antifreeze and just not adding water.

Well, I guess I'm the sucker and the fool here. I use Evans in my M42 (Command Truck version of the M37) and I'm happy with it. I put it in a new engine because I don't like the corrosion in my heating and cooling system. I also like the fact that it doesn't "boil" at the back of my flat head engine.

I am also more worried about overheating going up and down steep mountain roads in the summer as opposed to operating in -70 to -100 degree temperatures in the winter. My truck operates at a nice, steady 180 to 190 degree engine temperature range in summer, winter, heavy traffic, mountains or what passes for "deserts" here in Washington state.

Engine was "new" (rebuilt) when I installed it. Radiator, heater, water pump were all new 5 years ago when the Evans was installed. I have no complaints and I am happy with the product.

Also, on the west side (wet side) of Washington state the enviros wage an ongoing war against all autos. Washing a car in your driveway will get a visit from the local code enforcement officer or the state EPA. Flushing a radiator would probably qualify for a SWAT Team raid and everyone in the house deaded.

I'm just as glad I don't have to get involved in that little chore anymore.

YMMV.