Starter-- click, click,.... Bang! {sizzle}

rolling18 · Dec 2, 2018

Pushed red start button,... cranked over as usual but starter would not disengage!.... tried to get out to the battery and could not remove the battery cables.
Ended up melting right through the lead post/ clamps! Almost burned to the AGM batteries!

Replaced engine block mounted relay on the passenger side under the air box.. Same thing starter will not disengage disconnected battery to keep it from melting again.

What could be causing my starter to not disengage?
I have searched and only found posts about not being able to start.
It starts fine just just to starter will not disengage without disconnecting the battery.

Thanks in advance for any and all help

rustystud · Dec 2, 2018

Sounds like the starter solenoid is melted closed. This is the one mounted on the starter itself, not the one on the engine block. Take out the starter and remove the old solenoid. You can remove the solenoid on the starter without removing the whole starter but you really need to check the starter brushes and commutator .

rolling18 · Dec 2, 2018

Of course! That makes sense I forgot about that one that would be on top of the starter. The starter has a label on it that says Delco Remy and a serial number from not able to find that on Google

Any idea how to,, remove just the solenoid it seems to be one solid piece around to the back where the gear is.

porkysplace · Dec 2, 2018

rolling18 said:
Of course! That makes sense I forgot about that one that would be on top of the starter. The starter has a label on it that says Delco Remy and a serial number from not able to find that on Google

Any idea how to,, remove just the solenoid it seems to be one solid piece around to the back where the gear is.

TM9-2920-242-35
Maintenance and repair Starter, Delco

and just for reference for future searches
TM9-2920-248-35
Maintenance and repair Starter, Prestolite

LEECE NEVILLE STARTER REPAIR MANUAL
Manufacturer's repair manual for troubleshooting and repair with pictures

These links are from JATONKA'S website

http://www.jatonkam35s.com/

http://www.jatonkam35s.com/jatonkaM35sTMdownloadpage.htm

TGP (IL) · Dec 2, 2018

From the looks of that starter, it needs to come off and get a freshen up.
Also the yellow paint pen marks, shows me it's a salvage yard replacement.
Tom

gimpyrobb · Dec 2, 2018

Dump it and get a gear reduction starter. The direct drive ones are not worth fooling with.

tie6044 · Dec 2, 2018

Is it possible the starter button is sticking on? Even if the red button comes back out maybe something inside is sticking.

dmetalmiki · Dec 2, 2018

When starters have that problem, As mentioned before, Remove it. (It is not that hard of a (or time coming)) Task.
Excessive 'run on' = heat. = Damage.
Service (Or, have serviced.) The whole unit.

rolling18 · Dec 2, 2018

porkysplace said:
TM9-2920-242-35
Maintenance and repair Starter, Delcoand just for reference for future searches
TM9-2920-248-35 Maintenance and repair Starter, PrestoliteLEECE NEVILLE STARTER REPAIR MANUAL Manufacturer's repair manual for troubleshooting and repair with picturesThese links are from JATONKA'S website
http://www.jatonkam35s.com/http://www.jatonkam35s.com/jatonkaM35sTMdownloadpage.htm

Great Info!! I will have something to research now the rest of the day!!
also goo for other starter problems and troubleshooting

TGP (IL) said:
From the looks of that starter, it needs to come off and get a freshen up.Also the yellow paint pen marks, shows me it's a salvage yard replacement.Tom

Tom, YES it was from a junk yard.. the guy who replaced it died, and I wasnt around when he got/ installed it, so I dont know what heavy truck yard it came from.

gimpyrobb said:
Dump it and get a gear reduction starter. The direct drive ones are not worth fooling with.

Interesting Idea! are they any cheaper?
what one would be a bolt in replacement??

tie6044 said:
Is it possible the starter button is sticking on? Even if the red button comes back out maybe something inside is sticking.

Starter button/ switch: not possible, I checked by removing it and just crossing the contacts.. same result: no disengagement.. run and disconnect batteries before they blow up again.

dmetalmiki said:
When starters have that problem, As mentioned before, Remove it. (It is not that hard of a (or time coming)) Task.Excessive 'run on' = heat. = Damage.Service (Or, have serviced.) The whole unit.

Yes, looks like that might be the ultimate fix after I try some of the other suggestions, $$$ is a factor at this point in the year however..

99nouns · Dec 2, 2018

Red makes me dizzzzyyy

rustystud · Dec 2, 2018

gimpyrobb said:
Dump it and get a gear reduction starter. The direct drive ones are not worth fooling with.

Totally agree with Gimp here. These newer style gear reductions starters are the only way to go. Cheaper and lighter and more power to spin the engine over. I have two stored in sealed 5 gallon buckets just in case !

rolling18 · Dec 3, 2018

thanks for the suggestion, I'm leaning that way as well... I just need to find one that is bolt on AND cost resonable VS. repairing current one

gimpyrobb · Dec 3, 2018

rolling18 said:
thanks for the suggestion, I'm leaning that way as well... I just need to find one that is bolt on AND cost resonable VS. repairing current one

I've got a good takeoff. Ill pm my number if interested.

cattlerepairman · Dec 3, 2018

Thread on gear reduction starters on the Deuce:

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...-my-starter-with-a-gear-reduction-style/page2

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Menaces Nemesis · Dec 3, 2018

cattlerepairman said:
Thread on gear reduction starters on the Deuce:

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...-my-starter-with-a-gear-reduction-style/page2

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

It's been written on SS many times that a Delco 39MT gear-reduction starter will work, however, "39MT" is a series of starters, with many variations of models within the 39MT series. I believe I've got it narrowed down to the right model #, but it'd be nice to know for sure from someone who's installed one...

Can anyone confirm or deny that a Delco MT39 model #8200435 (12 tooth, 24v, CW rotation) or equivalent clone, is what we need? - Thanks

porkysplace · Dec 3, 2018

Menaces Nemesis said:
This post from the OP of that thread has me wondering... https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...eduction-style&p=997747&viewfull=1#post997747
The gear reduction starter is a 39MT series or clone, but are there different models of the 39MT, with different soleonoid and mounting flange hole orientation?
Is there a 39MT-type or clone that is needed for the 465-LDT specifically?
If so, does anyone have the exact delco 39MT model# that fits our trucks, so we could cross-reference to a model of 39MT clone? - Thanks

Probably want to contact 74M35A2 to find out the correct model number. Or search his older posts.

rolling18 · Dec 3, 2018

After ATTEMPTING to remove the starter, I think I will abandon this project.
I would try to remove just the solonoid portion, but I cannot get access to the end with the part that is screwed in toward the firewall side.

I do not have the right tools to do this job, even if I did I do not have the physical ability (anymore) to manuver a 70LB object into an exact location.

Is there anyone in Oregon/ Washington area that wants to make a little Christmas Cash?? I'll pay someone to swap it out in their spare time.

74M35A2 · Dec 5, 2018

Sorry to hear what happened. This is a classic case of old style solenoid contact welding. As mentioned, it is internal to the solenoid itself.

Delco Remy is our competitor. I don't have or know their model numbers/fit chart.

No direct fit gear reduction starter from our brand. I have to assemble them one by one from multiple known parts of others to make a compatible one. This involves solenoid position, mount hole diameter, pinion size/teeth, mounting flange config, starter mounted relay, etc...

The modern gear reduction units weigh half (29lbs), are 1/3 less size, and draw 50 amps less average cranking current as compared to the older direct drives (200 amps less initial inrush current). They also have a very robust over-running clutch, ball and needle roller bearing construction, and O rings at every mating surface. Designed and tested to last a minimum of 50,000 cycles. Warranty is 3 years / 350,000 miles as OE supplied.

For those that have one from me, it is a rare piece. Starters are built very strong, and have a very low duty cycle usage. Especially in our applications, they should last nearly forever, even if stock/original. Just be sure to use them to start the engine only, not drive the truck forward in gear, prime the fuel system via extended cranking, etc....

Also keep your batteries fresh, 5 years old or less. This is important. Even if it means ditching your expensive mil spec battery and switching over to group 31 civilian semi truck batteries. Weak battery power will spin the starter slower, this pulls more current, and can cause what you saw. Not saying it did, but it can. Also a slower spinning starter from weak batteries spends more time on each commutator section as they pass the brushes, heating them longer and cutting into the life of the starter.

Starter-- click, click,.... Bang! {sizzle}

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