Stewart and Stephenson for landscaping?

pitrack · Dec 29, 2018

Hey guys I am new here and new to these trucks. Been trying to search this site for some answers. I have a random idea to use one of the 5 ton S & S trucks for landscaping. My thought was to convert it to a hook lift truck, making loading easier and make the truck more versatile. Had a couple questions though on if this is even possible.

I am talking to a company who refurbishes these trucks, paints them, etc. And they told me a 5 ton S & S truck has a 48k gvwr. I know the tag says 5 ton payload, but he said there is also a tag in them that says 48k for on-road use. Is there any truth to this? What I'm looking for is something that can haul 10-12 tons.

If the weight rating was figured out, is a truck like this practical for everyday use? I would opt for the super single tires to get more life out of them assuming that would help with tire wear.

The main thing I like about these trucks is the relatively cheap price, and the weight ratings (Assuming they can hold more weight than 5 tons, which I'm worried they may not be able to legally).

I like the S & S because of the flat front I feel like would be easier to drive around with traffic etc. and not be as large as the m9xx series trucks. But the m9xx could still be a possibility if they can hold the weight and would be reliable.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

319cssb · Dec 29, 2018

There must be a load of money to be made in landscaping, if one can afford to haul a lawnmower around in a 5 ton. With 6MPG and the amount of PMCS these vehicles need. Not to mention the unexpected things to break or suddenly not work. That notion just baffles me.
One has to have either deep pockets or know these trucks in and out and have a warehouse of parts or it's something that blossomed in an entirely different reality.
I'm gonna grab myself a snack and watch this unfold.

coachgeo · Dec 29, 2018

319cssb said:
There must be a load of money to be made in landscaping, if one can afford to haul a lawnmower around in a 5 ton. With 6MPG and the amount of PMCS these vehicles need. Not to mention the unexpected things to break or suddenly not work. That notion just baffles me.
One has to have either deep pockets or know these trucks in and out and have a warehouse of parts or it's something that blossomed in an entirely different reality.
I'm gonna grab myself a snack and watch this unfold.

Wouldn't that be the case with any MV used for commercial purposes?

m1010plowboy · Dec 29, 2018

We get too old fast so if you're looking for an adventure do it while you're young. As for critical thinking and business planning you're looking for a return on investment. Charles Vander Kooi does a great cost analysis on equipment. By the time it wears out the equipment logically needs to make enough cash to replace itself and hopefully after FOG, fuel, oils, grease there is some cash left over. The operating costs of equipment and their maintenance can be calculated based on past data so if the 'reviews' suggest it is not a practical/ feasible piece of equipment....it isn't. My M1010 plow truck out performed everything and when the snow cycles kick back in, I might do it again.

Charles was a Colorado billionaire last time I saw him a decade ago and used, well maintained equipment was one of his MO's.

Your weight rating for hauling starts with rubber. There are a few DOT boys hanging around here so I may be corrected but those guys will check your rubber condition and ratings as the walk up to your door. Singling means you can haul less weight so get those rubber ratings rolling right.

I did it for the fun factor and the business justifies any truck you pick as long as it's a healthy, maintained unit. Quality, clean, organized, sharp looking trucks pulling up to my projects was always important. Fuel efficiency is nice but its not the limiting factor when finding a heavy hauler. We bought a little GMC 3 ton farm dump with a 427 in it originally. Not real fuel efficient but we could haul soil or drop the sides and haul a water tank, equipment, set up a band on the flat deck, all kinds of practical use. We kept the weight under 11,790kg which allowed us to run locally without log books.

Are you the only operator or do you need to train folks to drive it? That's another limiting factor that would require special, in-depth training that might alter your decision. Best of luck with the decision.

rhurey · Dec 29, 2018

319cssb said:
There must be a load of money to be made in landscaping

Get a quote some time on having a yard landscaped, not mowed. Depending where you are all the plants, rocks, etc can we well into the 5 figure range. Plus some places landscapers are the guys who do all the stone work around pools. $$$

Awesomeness · Dec 29, 2018

FMTVs don't have a separate off-road and on-road cargo capacity rating, like the older trucks do. So 5 tons is all you get out of an M1083. You can put a trailer on it, and get another 5 tons.

These trucks are awfully high bed-height, if you don't need the offroad capabilities. They are head turners though, so rolling up to a job in one will surely make you memorable. FMTVs only get 4-7 MPG, with 5-6 MPG being most common (90% of your tanks full).

They are 20 years old, and were maintained by poorly trained kids. You could start by throwing several thousand dollars at it to replace anything made of rubber or plastic (e.g. hoses, belts, tubes, seals, o-rings, etc.), or else expect that you will find a new one leaking every couple months. It's easier to deal with in small chunks, and usually not hard work to do, but it's another unexpected downtime while someone spends an afternoon fixing it. If you do the work yourself (or have an inexpensive employee do it, as opposed to $100/hr truck shop time), it's still way cheaper than buying a newer, more expensive consumer truck. When stuff breaks it's often more expensive and time-consuming, because the non-commercial parts have to be found surplus/eBay/collectors/etc.

Overall, I don't think you would save a worthwhile amount of money with one of these trucks, compared to buying a similarly old used dump truck or something. They aren't worse either, though. But the unique marketing value might make it worth it. If you get just a few extra jobs a year because a customer tells a buddy about "This landscaper I used that did an ok job, and shows up in these awesome military trucks!" you'll have paid for it.

pitrack · Dec 29, 2018

319cssb said:
There must be a load of money to be made in landscaping, if one can afford to haul a lawnmower around in a 5 ton. With 6MPG and the amount of PMCS these vehicles need. Not to mention the unexpected things to break or suddenly not work. That notion just baffles me.
One has to have either deep pockets or know these trucks in and out and have a warehouse of parts or it's something that blossomed in an entirely different reality.
I'm gonna grab myself a snack and watch this unfold.

Thanks for your super helpful post. fyi it wouldn't be to haul around a lawnmower. Landscaping entails much more than cutting grass, we actually don't even touch lawns. We do mostly retaining walls and patios, thus the reason I was asking about weight ratings.

m1010plowboy said:
We get too old fast so if you're looking for an adventure do it while you're young. As for critical thinking and business planning you're looking for a return on investment. Charles Vander Kooi does a great cost analysis on equipment. By the time it wears out the equipment logically needs to make enough cash to replace itself and hopefully after FOG, fuel, oils, grease there is some cash left over. The operating costs of equipment and their maintenance can be calculated based on past data so if the 'reviews' suggest it is not a practical/ feasible piece of equipment....it isn't. My M1010 plow truck out performed everything and when the snow cycles kick back in, I might do it again.

Charles was a Colorado billionaire last time I saw him a decade ago and used, well maintained equipment was one of his MO's.

Your weight rating for hauling starts with rubber. There are a few DOT boys hanging around here so I may be corrected but those guys will check your rubber condition and ratings as the walk up to your door. Singling means you can haul less weight so get those rubber ratings rolling right.

I did it for the fun factor and the business justifies any truck you pick as long as it's a healthy, maintained unit. Quality, clean, organized, sharp looking trucks pulling up to my projects was always important. Fuel efficiency is nice but its not the limiting factor when finding a heavy hauler. We bought a little GMC 3 ton farm dump with a 427 in it originally. Not real fuel efficient but we could haul soil or drop the sides and haul a water tank, equipment, set up a band on the flat deck, all kinds of practical use. We kept the weight under 11,790kg which allowed us to run locally without log books.

Are you the only operator or do you need to train folks to drive it? That's another limiting factor that would require special, in-depth training that might alter your decision. Best of luck with the decision.

Thank you plowboy, all good points. Maybe the singles wouldn't be the best choice, I wasn't sure. I would be the operator of the truck.

Awesomeness said:
FMTVs don't have a separate off-road and on-road cargo capacity rating, like the older trucks do. So 5 tons is all you get out of an M1083. You can put a trailer on it, and get another 5 tons.

These trucks are awfully high bed-height, if you don't need the offroad capabilities. They are head turners though, so rolling up to a job in one will surely make you memorable. FMTVs only get 4-7 MPG, with 5-6 MPG being most common (90% of your tanks full).

They are 20 years old, and were maintained by poorly trained kids. You could start by throwing several thousand dollars at it to replace anything made of rubber or plastic (e.g. hoses, belts, tubes, seals, o-rings, etc.), or else expect that you will find a new one leaking every couple months. It's easier to deal with in small chunks, and usually not hard work to do, but it's another unexpected downtime while someone spends an afternoon fixing it. If you do the work yourself (or have an inexpensive employee do it, as opposed to $100/hr truck shop time), it's still way cheaper than buying a newer, more expensive consumer truck. When stuff breaks it's often more expensive and time-consuming, because the non-commercial parts have to be found surplus/eBay/collectors/etc.

Overall, I don't think you would save a worthwhile amount of money with one of these trucks, compared to buying a similarly old used dump truck or something. They aren't worse either, though. But the unique marketing value might make it worth it. If you get just a few extra jobs a year because a customer tells a buddy about "This landscaper I used that did an ok job, and shows up in these awesome military trucks!" you'll have paid for it.

Thank you Awesomeness.

It was more so just some wishful thinking on my part. I like how these trucks look and like I said, given the information I was given, I thought the weight ratings would work for what I was wanting. The deck height wouldn't be a terrible issue if I did the hook lift conversion since the bed can be set on the ground.

Either way, if all I could haul in the truck is 5 tons it's not worth the hassle. I would rather be in the 10-12 ton payload range. Is there any other truck you guys would recommend that could work for my situation?

Thanks again for the replies.

tennmogger · Dec 29, 2018

Running a business, you know how expensive down time can be. Some people claim no failures with their FMTV trucks. Many of us who use them day in and day out continually have little nagging problems, and that's after 3 years of replacing parts (in my case, with a 1994 LMTV). Seems like it's always something.

For a hobby truck these are great vehicles. Down time does not hurt as bad or cost money, and we can work on them ourselves.

For a commercial business, I would recommend a civilian truck that can be worked on by others.

porkysplace · Dec 29, 2018

The thing with a hook lift is your adding a lot of weight just in the hook lift and box/pallet , so this is cutting load capacity. I would look at either a regular flatbed or a landscape dump with flip down slides . These are not near as heavy as rock boxes and pallet can be unloaded with a skidsteer or tractor with forks . Broken concrete and large rocks will beat them up pretty quick though.

Awesomeness · Dec 29, 2018

pitrack said:
Is there any other truck you guys would recommend that could work for my situation?

Not sure. USMC has 7-ton trucks. Otherwise, the next size truck up is a HEMTT, which is a 10 ton truck, a big jump in terms of size, parts availability, ridiculousness. You could get an M1070 HET, and put a dump truck bed on it... there was recently one on eBay like that.

The design of military trucks sacrifices a lot of the payload capability in favor of offroad ability, fitting in aircraft, and other military-specific needs. It's going to be hard to hold that up to a purpose-built commercial hauler. But if you just want the cool factor, and can leverage it as marketing/advertising, that would be a way to approach it. They are awesome trucks, and a blast to drive around in - people always want to stop and talk to you about it.

snowtrac nome · Dec 29, 2018

unless you need an awd truck I would shy away from a military rig. get an Isuzu or gmc t7500 if you like forward control or an older international from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. Its tough to beat the reliability of those old binder dt 466 motors , the trucks are simple reliable and any diesel mechanic can work on them. My commercial practices required awd and a truck that will be operated 90 percent of its life in what you all down south would call off road. Mostly seldom graded gravel roads, I had to have something intended for these conditions and even a commercial rig like an international with an awd conversion is still primarily an asphalt truck with extended capability. it made sence for me to go green, than again I also spent 20 years working on green stuff.

pitrack · Dec 31, 2018

Thanks everyone, looks like I will look elsewhere and maybe try for a military truck down the road for a hobby!

Stewart and Stephenson for landscaping?

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