Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Reputable IP rebuild shops for stanadyne IP from 006a?

  1. #1
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St Pete, FL
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 174 Times in 74 Posts

    Default Reputable IP rebuild shops for stanadyne IP from 006a?

    So after getting a super clean 006a which almost looks brand new minus a dented door and a few missing screws, I need to find a shop to rebuild the injection pump. It was so varnished up the shutdown linkage took a good few minutes of rocking back and forth to get it to move freely, and as it rotates you can see the dark staining on the rotating assembly through the inspection port.

    Check valve missing or the ball was already punched out, but so far the shop that I talked to said that it is a check valve, but acts more as a regulator which is contrary to everything ive read about people removing the ball entirely from the equation. (frankly, not sure where it goes, I am assuming its the fitting before the T on the top of the injection pump)

    Normally I would get a seal kit and freshen the pump up myself, but I was talked into just having it done professionally to free me up for other projects I have going on.

    Anyways, I have a shop that is stanadyne authorized which is 99/hr plus shop supplies, so it could be anywhere from 400 to 1000 depending on what they fine. Because they are authorized any hard parts that are out of spec will be replaced with factory parts and there is no choice to do this because stanadyne wont warranty it if its not done properly.

    Anybody have good luck with rebuilds? Looking for recommendations and curious on what the quoted vs actual prices were for this kind of rebuild.
    It's not that I have too many generators, it's that I don't have enough room.

  2. #2
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St Pete, FL
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 174 Times in 74 Posts

    Default

    One thing that is unrelated but I know I the bridge will come up: Pump timing and reinstall. The manual and what was actually on the set seem to be a little off. When preparing for removal I went through the manual with the genset to emulate myself reinstalling and to document exactly how the timing was before removal. While I did not pull the valvecover to confirm which stroke cylinder 1 was on, I barred the engine over until the timing marks on the pump were lined up which would indicate the correct stroke.

    So there were no timing marks on the idler gear. There were no timing marks on the pump gear. Some people here reported they are faint but in fact there. Even after removal of the gear (very end after I was satisfied with my documentation) after cleaning and inspection, I was unable to find anything that resembled a timing mark. since the gears are hardened I settled with paint for the time being. From what I can tell it seems the old pump was 25 BTDC (or could be 24, bad angles of viewing).

    Just wanting to make sure there are no holes in my methodology for making sure re-installation and timing goes off without a hitch, which seems to be that the old manuals seem to make more sense then the new ones. As long as no gremlins decide to bar my engine over or connect batteries to crank it, I am thinking most of my work is done with some fine tuning on the timing upon reinstall.

    BTW: what is the easiest way to get that last top injection line on/off without a lot of cursing? Is the key to connect the lines before sliding the pump on? different than what I have tools? It was an absolute bear for me and I have small hands that normally do fine in cramped engine bays. I had to remove the IP top to get a ratchet on, but upon reassembly that is not an option as I do not want to contaminate it.
    It's not that I have too many generators, it's that I don't have enough room.

  3. #3
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St Pete, FL
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 174 Times in 74 Posts

    Default

    An update: Well I have 2 stanadyne authorized shops that I have narrowed down to using, one being local but just so happens the upstream distributor they have to get their parts from is the larger rebuild shop on the other coast. Local one is more expensive and is a small company, but talking to the bigger company I get much more of a warm fuzzy feeling on their process than with the local company (ive used the local company before for 7.3 injectors but nothing worth writing home about. They were local but not the cheapest and it was a rush job which is why we used them.)

    Going to send the injectors in while I am at it also. When I asked about rebuilding the conversation with like this:
    Me: Do you rebuild the injectors onsite?
    Him: Yes but normally we replace them instead, it would be cheaper.
    Me: (nonchalantly like I know this is a game changing piece of information) Its Allis Chalmers
    Him: Oh, nevermind, those would probably be rebuilt instead. (slight chuckle, which I assume is due to the age of this unit or parts availability)
    I guess we are on the same page, research paid off. lol

    Anybody have experience with Southeast Power Systems? Thats probably who I am going with. (and will report back with results after all is said and done)
    It's not that I have too many generators, it's that I don't have enough room.

  4. #4
    4 Star General Guyfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Burgkunstadt, Germany
    Posts
    5,816
    Thanks
    10,575
    Thanked 4,988 Times in 2,414 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Demoh View Post
    So after getting a super clean 006a which almost looks brand new minus a dented door and a few missing screws, I need to find a shop to rebuild the injection pump. It was so varnished up the shutdown linkage took a good few minutes of rocking back and forth to get it to move freely, and as it rotates you can see the dark staining on the rotating assembly through the inspection port.

    Check valve missing or the ball was already punched out, but so far the shop that I talked to said that it is a check valve, but acts more as a regulator which is contrary to everything ive read about people removing the ball entirely from the equation. (frankly, not sure where it goes, I am assuming its the fitting before the T on the top of the injection pump)

    I thought the check valve was item 13 in the parts book, but haven seen one in about 30 years. Can you take a picture of what you think is the check valve?

    Normally I would get a seal kit and freshen the pump up myself, but I was talked into just having it done professionally to free me up for other projects I have going on.

    DO use new crushable copper seals on the injector lines. Trust me. Do print off and give the repair shop, the section in the -34 TM for the correct adjustments for the IP, if they do not have them. repair shops on the whole adjust IP's for what they think/know is right for non military applications. Not always the say as military applications.

    Anyways, I have a shop that is stanadyne authorized which is 99/hr plus shop supplies, so it could be anywhere from 400 to 1000 depending on what they fine. Because they are authorized any hard parts that are out of spec will be replaced with factory parts and there is no choice to do this because stanadyne wont warranty it if its not done properly.

    Tell they you want the pump back, in the same configuration as when you gave it to them. One member here had his rebuilt, and the firm left off a few parts, "because they didn't know where they go, and therefore are not needed". He wound up going 3-4 times back to the place before it was right. Ask them if they have ever done an IP for a MILITARY engine. The adjustments are NOT always the same.

    Anybody have good luck with rebuilds? Looking for recommendations and curious on what the quoted vs actual prices were for this kind of rebuild.
    Did you time the pump/engine before removing the pump? Locked the arm back, after removal? The double seal on the IP shaft, can be a PITA. I always use grease on it, before insertion. Lots of grease. When the set is back together, run it several hours, to find out if the first seal went into place right, or not. You will know, the dip stick will tell the tale.

    Another hint. If the set has not already been modified. use some wire and run a wire from the fuel level sender to ground. Simply connect one end to a mounting screw on the sending unit, the other to the nearest good place to ground it. The meter will work better. In the old days, the fuel tanks were metal. They still didn't ground right, but better then the later plastic tanks.

    Did you get it to run before you pulled the IP?

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Guyfang For This Useful Post:

    Demoh (02-10-2019)

  6. #5
    4 Star General Guyfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Burgkunstadt, Germany
    Posts
    5,816
    Thanks
    10,575
    Thanked 4,988 Times in 2,414 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Demoh View Post
    One thing that is unrelated but I know I the bridge will come up: Pump timing and reinstall. The manual and what was actually on the set seem to be a little off. When preparing for removal I went through the manual, (Good idea!) with the genset to emulate myself reinstalling and to document exactly how the timing was before removal. While I did not pull the valvecover to confirm which stroke cylinder 1 was on, I barred the engine over until the timing marks on the pump were lined up which would indicate the correct stroke.

    So there were no timing marks on the idler gear. There were no timing marks on the pump gear. Some people here reported they are faint but in fact there. Even after removal of the gear (very end after I was satisfied with my documentation) after cleaning and inspection, I was unable to find anything that resembled a timing mark. since the gears are hardened I settled with paint for the time being. From what I can tell it seems the old pump was 25 BTDC (or could be 24, bad angles of viewing).

    Every one I have ever done, had the marks. IF, you install the pump, and it doesn't work, re-time the IP and engine. Pull the pump out. Turn the IP gear until the pump timing line goes all the way around and lines up again. Most of the time its just 180 out.

    Just wanting to make sure there are no holes in my methodology for making sure re-installation and timing goes off without a hitch, which seems to be that the old manuals seem to make more sense then the new ones. As long as no gremlins decide to bar my engine over or connect batteries to crank it, I am thinking most of my work is done with some fine tuning on the timing upon reinstall.

    What is an "old manual", and a "new manual"? If you are not using the 10 June, 1973 TM 5-6115-545-34, with change 12, you are using the wrong TM's.

    BTW: what is the easiest way to get that last top injection line on/off without a lot of cursing? Is the key to connect the lines before sliding the pump on? different than what I have tools? It was an absolute bear for me and I have small hands that normally do fine in cramped engine bays. I had to remove the IP top to get a ratchet on, but upon reassembly that is not an option as I do not want to contaminate it.
    NO!!! Do not connect the injector lines before re-installing the IP. You will lose your mind. YES, that back line is a PITA. But if my fat little fingers can get it on, so can yours. When re-installing, do remove the top, and stuff it full of CLEAN, non lint rags. I had a rounded wrench, that was just what the doc ordered for the job. Its been 30 years, but I think its a 9/16th wrench?? I also loosened the injector lines up top, and the stupid little brackets that hold all the lines running down from the top of the engine. That way you have a little wiggle room. This is not a job you do when time is short, if you can help it.
    Last edited by Guyfang; 02-07-2019 at 04:41.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Guyfang For This Useful Post:

    Demoh (02-10-2019)

  8. #6
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St Pete, FL
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 174 Times in 74 Posts

    Default

    Guy, you are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you.

    Took me a bit to get answers to questions and pictures. For what I "think" the check valve is, these 3 pictures:
    IMG_3691.jpgIMG_3692.jpgIMG_3693.jpg
    2nd 2 pictures being I am holding in my hand what I think it is. Its hollow as hollow could be, but with how its machined it is theoretically possible to get a spring and ball in there, but they are gone, and the pressed in part where the spring or ball would ride on is actually still there. (hence my confusion)

    Ill print everything off for the shop, and talking to the guy there they said more information is better. I mentioned its military and some things might be different and that it needs to have all of the knobs and stuff (droop) that it went there with.

    When I say old or new manual, what I mean is if was written many many years ago, like the 00x series generators, I can follow the manual no problem. If its a newer manual like the 80x series generators, to me they seem more confusing.

    Set did not run before pulling the IP. Going through the set and troubleshooting has lead me to my findings to send the IP in.

    For the timing, I thought I saw a question asking if I timed it before removal but cant find it (or maybe sleep deprivation), but I timed the pump before removal, marked my gears, marked the crank, took many pictures, marked the pump to the block because it has some adjustment there too, so theoretically I could just slide the pump back on and line the line up before cranking it down and it should be timed. Unless it was timed wrong to begin with but I see no evidence of that. The evidence I see is the gen was prepped for storage (not properly) and sat for many years indoors because theres no corrosion on it anywhere. Whatever was in the IP for those years varnished and turned sticky and dark. (smells like varnished gasoline).
    It's not that I have too many generators, it's that I don't have enough room.

  9. #7
    4 Star General Guyfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Burgkunstadt, Germany
    Posts
    5,816
    Thanks
    10,575
    Thanked 4,988 Times in 2,414 Posts

    Default

    Yep, that was a check valve. My feelings about the check valve are this. On this model get set, it sometimes is needed, sometimes not. Most of the times, it works fine without one. But not always. No set rule, its just so. Whenever I had one stop working, (blocked closed) i pulled it and cleaned it by soaking it in carb cleaner. When I found one like yours, I replaced it. I figured someone brighter then me decided it was needed, and that's all I needed to know. I do know, some sets were a PITA to start, and the missing check valve was the reason. The entire fuel system, after the Electric pumps, is higher then the check valve. So, theoretically, the fuel should not flow back away from the IP. But some sets just would not start easy without the darn thing.

    Yeah, I am not a fan of the TQG gen set TM's.

    Metal fuel tank? Or plastic?

    Pull the day tank float switch out and take a look see. The float, (or floats, if it is and OLD float switch) should be undamaged. Some times the magnets come loose/fall out. Some of the fuels these puppies have consumed tended to eat the floats up.

    Another tip, if the marking for the three way valve is no longer on the data plate next to the valve, take the time to paint an arrow pointing to SET. That way, should your grand child walk by and move it to AUX, you will probably notice it. Sounds stupid, but when it happens, there is nothing in the TM to tell you what setting is for the fuel tank,(set) and which is for the AUX, (external fuel source). Its the last thing you would think of when the set wont run, for no fuel.

    If the little brass air bleeder is missing or rounded off, on the secondary fuel filter, take the time to replace it. Saves lots of cranking of the engine when ever you have had the filters off.

    There are a handful of other tips I can write up if you haven't worked this gen set before. service stuff, and the like. I love this set along with the 30 KW.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Guyfang For This Useful Post:

    Demoh (02-10-2019)

  11. #8
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St Pete, FL
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 174 Times in 74 Posts

    Default

    Plastic tank. While waiting for the IP and injectors I intend on pulling it out if possible. It appears it just slides out from the control panel side. Since this is going to be a primary stationary application once I make sure the tank is cleaned out I am likely to never put fuel in it and always leave it on aux. The selector still squeaks when turned so new diesel hasnt permeated through the valve yet.

    Day tank I pulled off and completely went through. Its double float style, magnets and floats look great, functions as intended. Somehow from me cleaning it out it doesnt have any paint left on it. (as seen below)

    Im likely to modify the fuel plumbing, Although I have almost an entire setup for fuel, (had to steal a filter housing off a 002a), I hate the design. Trying to get the bottom filter on/off with the oil cooler is a lost cause. I had to pull the housing off the engine to get a socket onto it because I refuse to twist the housing onto the bolt or take channel locks to my sockets. Going to go with modern spin ons for water separator and filters. I really hate the rubber compression style.

    For the moving of the injection lines out of the way there was no way for me to get a box end wrench on the clamp holding the lines so I had to take free the entire bracket, which was via exhaust manifold bolt... IDK who thunk of that design. Although probably not the correct way to do things, I didnt want to take anything apart. This set is a personal / my company set, I wouldnt do this for a set that Id be selling. I ended up making a few measurements then drilling a hole to get to that bolt:
    IMG_3690.jpg


    This set had LABCOM stickers on it, mean anything to you? Im curious.
    It's not that I have too many generators, it's that I don't have enough room.

  12. #9
    4 Star General Guyfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Burgkunstadt, Germany
    Posts
    5,816
    Thanks
    10,575
    Thanked 4,988 Times in 2,414 Posts

    Default

    Yeah, the tank slips right out. It's a pita unhooking all the hoses and filler neck. My guys filled the tanks 1/4 full of water, simple green and washing power. Then put the tanks in the back of a truck, to drive at break neck speeds all around the desert outside El Paso. May not have been the best way to clean them, but a good time was had by all!

    For some reason, the day tanks always lost the paint coating. Even when it was just pressure washing.

    Once the engine runs, then the fun starts.

  13. #10
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St Pete, FL
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 174 Times in 74 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyfang View Post
    Once the engine runs, then the fun starts.
    I dont like how that sounds....

    But the idea of just driving around with the tank in the back of the truck for a week sounds good.
    It's not that I have too many generators, it's that I don't have enough room.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •