Just purchases M1123, need hauling advice.

An example of what happens when you try to move MVs on the cheap. Member purchases trailer in Yermo, CA and hires U-Ship carrier to move it to Ohio. This individual tries to move trailer with a pickup truck with no working lights or brakes. Then he loads something (unknown to me what) on the trailer. Gets to North Phoenix AZ and blows out one of the roached out tires on the trailer. I cannot understand why someone going from Yermo, CA to Ohio would be on I 17 north of Phoenix, AZ. Carrier has no plan to deal with this problem and abandons trailer on side of highway. After a week trailer disappears and I suspect state police grabbed it up. Now the purchaser is out the cost of the trailer in Yermo, whatever he paid U-Ship for transportation, out the residuals of the trailer and liable for AZs abandoned vehicle fees, fines, storage etc.

Okay everyone, yes, I do realize that the normal method, and usually considered the best method is to load the HMMWV onto a trailer behind a suitable tow vehicle in order to transport it.
Considering the threads on here that I've read, plenty of people think it's perfectly fine to flat tow these with a tow bar behind a half ton truck. Plenty of people also think it is perfectly acceptable to lie to UHaul in order to rent their largest car hauler, which is rated for less weight than a HMMWV weighs, and tow that behind a 1/2 ton truck for hundreds if not thousands of miles.

And no Dave, I have not completely made up my mind yet. I started this thread to ask for thoughts on either of the two methods in the original post, and so far other than a single person mentioning that the center of gravity being raised (which is a valid concern) the main answer I have received seems to be simply "you're an idiot for asking such a question, you need to use a trailer"

I asked a serious question to find out if there are technical reasons why my proposed methods would not work. I have yet to see any type of response as to why either method would not work or be legal to do, all I get is a bunch of posts insinuating that I'm an idiot for even contemplating such a thing, and that everyone involved and a bunch of innocent people will die for even thinking that there might be another method than theirs.

I have tried to answer any of the questions not related to the technical aspects of my proposed methods as politely and with as much information as possible.

98G, thank you for sharing your experience. Unfortunately a flatbed truck is not a pickup truck, and according to CA laws, it is required to stop at all scales, where a pickup truck is specifically told not to stop at them. I am actually trying to work on borrowing a pickup truck with a trailer for this trip, but I am still trying to explore other possible options just in case I am unable to do so.

So please, those of you who have said there are very valid reasons to not do what I am asking about, please post them for me instead of wasting my time by posting things like "I can list a bunch of reasons but I'm not going to because I think it was a stupid question." Responses like that do not help me or anyone else who reads this thread in the slightest bit, and come across to me as being very rude as well.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm really not. I'm seriously looking for information as to why blocking the frame just behind the front suspension and just in front of the rear suspension in order to transport the M1123 HMMWV would in some way adversely affect the HMMWV or place undue risk of damage to the HMMWV or my equipment.

I'm not proposing just setting it on blocks and driving away, I have all the necessary chains and load binders to properly secure a vehicle as well as additional straps and tie downs. This load would have a center of gravity lower than and weigh less than a load of hay stacked on this same truck to max capacity, a load I have done countless times and have never had any issues with.

Please don't just make assumptions that I'm trying to skirt laws or safety measures or anything else. I am quite aware of the types of fines and legal issues that can come up from improperly hauling equipment or improperly securing a load, and if something bad happens because of it. As I stated before, it's because of the laws and regulations that I'm exploring these other routes and keeping everything above board, rather than skirting them.

I am self employed, I have plenty of time available during the spring/summer to go get it myself, might even turn it into a small vacation to travel down the coast or something. I much better like the idea of utilizing equipment that I already own rather than giving someone else money to do something that I am fully capable of. Driving a truck without a trailer would give me additional options on where I can drive and park my F450, which is already several feet longer and wider than your average pickup truck.

Unless you guys know of someone who will ship from Yermo to Olympia WA for less than $500, it will still come out more cost effective for me to go get it myself, visit some family and friends along the way, and just generally make a memorable event of the whole thing.

fasttruck said:

An example of what happens when you try to move MVs on the cheap. Member purchases trailer in Yermo, CA and hires U-Ship carrier to move it to Ohio. This individual tries to move trailer with a pickup truck with no working lights or brakes. Then he loads something (unknown to me what) on the trailer. Gets to North Phoenix AZ and blows out one of the roached out tires on the trailer. I cannot understand why someone going from Yermo, CA to Ohio would be on I 17 north of Phoenix, AZ. Carrier has no plan to deal with this problem and abandons trailer on side of highway. After a week trailer disappears and I suspect state police grabbed it up. Now the purchaser is out the cost of the trailer in Yermo, whatever he paid U-Ship for transportation, out the residuals of the trailer and liableView attachment 760076View attachment 760077 for AZs abandoned vehicle fees, fines, storage etc.

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Thank you very much for this example. It reinforces the thought that I should go down to pick up my new purchase myself, rather than trust some lowball bidder who's only interest is making money rather than making sure my HMMWV gets to me in good condition. If I have to spend money to do it safely and securely I'm more than willing to, but if I don't have to spend the money and I can still do it safely/efficiently I see no reason to waste money.

My primary concern is the risk of damage to the hmmwv at the time of loading.

In any given vehicle loading situation, given a choice of GP loading with a forklift or paying an extra $500 to keep GP's forklift away I'd opt to pay the $500 every time. This is based on first hand personal experience.

I'd flat tow it before I'd let GP forklift it. Flat towing may actually be worth considering as an option.

Edit to add -

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?151187-More-Forking

Coug said:

Okay everyone, yes, I do realize that the normal method, and usually considered the best method is to load the HMMWV onto a trailer behind a suitable tow vehicle in order to transport it.
Considering the threads on here that I've read, plenty of people think it's perfectly fine to flat tow these with a tow bar behind a half ton truck. Plenty of people also think it is perfectly acceptable to lie to UHaul in order to rent their largest car hauler, which is rated for less weight than a HMMWV weighs, and tow that behind a 1/2 ton truck for hundreds if not thousands of miles.

And no Dave, I have not completely made up my mind yet. I started this thread to ask for thoughts on either of the two methods in the original post, and so far other than a single person mentioning that the center of gravity being raised (which is a valid concern) the main answer I have received seems to be simply "you're an idiot for asking such a question, you need to use a trailer"

I asked a serious question to find out if there are technical reasons why my proposed methods would not work. I have yet to see any type of response as to why either method would not work or be legal to do, all I get is a bunch of posts insinuating that I'm an idiot for even contemplating such a thing, and that everyone involved and a bunch of innocent people will die for even thinking that there might be another method than theirs.

I have tried to answer any of the questions not related to the technical aspects of my proposed methods as politely and with as much information as possible.

98G, thank you for sharing your experience. Unfortunately a flatbed truck is not a pickup truck, and according to CA laws, it is required to stop at all scales, where a pickup truck is specifically told not to stop at them. I am actually trying to work on borrowing a pickup truck with a trailer for this trip, but I am still trying to explore other possible options just in case I am unable to do so.

So please, those of you who have said there are very valid reasons to not do what I am asking about, please post them for me instead of wasting my time by posting things like "I can list a bunch of reasons but I'm not going to because I think it was a stupid question." Responses like that do not help me or anyone else who reads this thread in the slightest bit, and come across to me as being very rude as well.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm really not. I'm seriously looking for information as to why blocking the frame just behind the front suspension and just in front of the rear suspension in order to transport the M1123 HMMWV would in some way adversely affect the HMMWV or place undue risk of damage to the HMMWV or my equipment.

I'm not proposing just setting it on blocks and driving away, I have all the necessary chains and load binders to properly secure a vehicle as well as additional straps and tie downs. This load would have a center of gravity lower than and weigh less than a load of hay stacked on this same truck to max capacity, a load I have done countless times and have never had any issues with.

Please don't just make assumptions that I'm trying to skirt laws or safety measures or anything else. I am quite aware of the types of fines and legal issues that can come up from improperly hauling equipment or improperly securing a load, and if something bad happens because of it. As I stated before, it's because of the laws and regulations that I'm exploring these other routes and keeping everything above board, rather than skirting them.

I am self employed, I have plenty of time available during the spring/summer to go get it myself, might even turn it into a small vacation to travel down the coast or something. I much better like the idea of utilizing equipment that I already own rather than giving someone else money to do something that I am fully capable of. Driving a truck without a trailer would give me additional options on where I can drive and park my F450, which is already several feet longer and wider than your average pickup truck.

Unless you guys know of someone who will ship from Yermo to Olympia WA for less than $500, it will still come out more cost effective for me to go get it myself, visit some family and friends along the way, and just generally make a memorable event of the whole thing.

Click to expand...

You have not mentioned the size of the timbers or the weight of them . You did mention 7 foot from cab to center of axle , so that leaves 9 feet to the rear of the axle high in the air . No mention of what you plan on using for lights , as your going to need more than just the trucks tail lights. What kind of tie downs does the flatbed have.

98G said:

My primary concern is the risk of damage to the hmmwv at the time of loading.

In any given vehicle loading situation, given a choice of GP loading with a forklift or paying an extra $500 to keep GP's forklift away I'd opt to pay the $500 every time. This is based on first hand personal experience.

I'd flat tow it before I'd let GP forklift it. Flat towing may actually be worth considering as an option.

Edit to add -

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?151187-More-Forking

Click to expand...

But that would be $300 on a towbar that he doesn't want to spend.

porkysplace said:

You have not mentioned the size of the timbers or the weight of them . You did mention 7 foot from cab to center of axle , so that leaves 9 feet to the rear of the axle high in the air . No mention of what you plan on using for lights , as your going to need more than just the trucks tail lights. What kind of tie downs does the flatbed have.

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If I block it under the frame and leave the tail hanging, timbers would be 8x12s on edge for the main runners, then 4x12 and 6x12 cross pieces where needed. I have a sawmill and can cut anything I think I would need. Would use either fir or cedar for the main runners, and fir for the cross braces. Total weight on all the timbers would be in the 600-900 lb range depending on what type I use and how dry they are.

If I just did runners underneath the wheels full length of the HMMWV I have some timbers from a railroad crossing that are 4x12, or I might cut some fir 6x12s instead. Weight would be in the 600 lb range.


Currently just have a couple sets of the cheap Harbor Freight tow light set, was planning on attaching them to a 2x4 and securing it to the rear of the HMMWV to provide the additional lighting needed for the rear of the load.

Truck has flat bar welded under the edges of the flatbed, welded at every cross brace under the bed, so less than 16 inches apart, 1/4 by 2 1/2 steel. I'd probably also run some of the 2 inch 5k rated straps down to the frame of the truck just to be doubly sure.


EDIT:My F450 comes in just under 9k lbs with 2 people in the cab, so that leaves me around 7k lbs total to play with for this. As long as I keep the timbers and tie downs under 1k lbs I should be good.

porkysplace said:

But that would be $300 on a towbar that he doesn't want to spend.

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I'd be more than willing to spend that on a towbar for the HMMWV if I thought it was the best option, but from all the threads here everyone seems to recommend picking up the HMMWV and getting it home to check it out before rolling it down the road.
That would be flat towing it for 900 miles without knowing the conditions of the hubs. I can pull the wheels and check fluid levels, but a little more difficult to do a full, thorough inspection on the HMMWV without having it at a location where I can really take my time and not make a mess in someone's parking lot. I'd rather not give HMMWV owners a bad name by spilling gear oil and doing other work in a random parking lot.

My truck does have a pintle/ball combo on it, so it would be doable except for what I mentioned above. Not to mention it's 900 miles towing an unregistered vehicle on public roadways. Not sure the legality of doing a flat tow for unregistered vehicles, but 900 miles is a bit far to be telling the officer excuses of "I'm just trying to get it home"

Coug, I flat towed a Hummer H-1 behind my 40 foot motor home for 4 years! NEVER HAD AN ISSUE!.
Neutral,Neutral, Put over 5000 miles towing from OUTBACK to OutBACK ascross southern usa.

Couple ideas from my recent Yermo pickup experience.

If it drives, they will usually drive it out to you. That's what they did for me.
The other guy that was there to pick up got a non runner and his was forked onto his trailer. I saw them do a nice job of it, but I would rather not as Ive seen pics of fork damage to tanks and floor pans.
The biggest dangers from flat towing are the unknown lube/seized brake/whatever possibilities, Spindle nut blowout, and old tires shredding. Mine were all new looking with 2001-2003 birthdates. They have a separate warning sheet about the tires.

Here is a look at what you are up against size wise...(curb weight 5200#)

DREDnot said:

View attachment 760356

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Thank you very much for that measurement. That's about where I thought it would be.

When you place the timbers, they will all jut out without being attached to each other. That means only 2 - 4 timbers will support the rear of the truck. ALSO they will be like cantelevers, so if the front of the timbers are not attached to the trailer, the fronts will fly up making a wedge shape that will cause the truck to slide backwards. If the giant lever cracks the timbers in the middle, same thing.

Pulling her with a 6000 lb rated towbar is a better idea BUT you might still blow a tire, as these vehicles have cracked Goodyears. There is a posted warning about Goodyears on GovPlanet.

If you use a short trailer with timbers, I hope you get pulled over and tickets and stopped, because what you are planning is reckless and unnecessary and stupid.

Rent a freakin' trailer or pay to get her shipped.

As I think you're not gonna listen...

How bout a picture of your rig so we can get a better idea of what you are thinking of doing



I drove flatbed tow trucks for years so Ive carried some stuff that was pushing the limits. What you are describing may be feasible if done right. Id have to see your truck, bed, and tiedown setup though

TOBASH said:

When you place the timbers, they will all jut out without being attached to each other. That means only 2 - 4 timbers will support the rear of the truck. ALSO they will be like cantelevers, so if the front of the timbers are not attached to the trailer, the fronts will fly up making a wedge shape that will cause the truck to slide backwards. If the giant lever cracks the timbers in the middle, same thing.

Pulling her with a 6000 lb rated towbar is a better idea BUT you might still blow a tire, as these vehicles have cracked Goodyears. There is a posted warning about Goodyears on GovPlanet.

If you use a short trailer with timbers, I hope you get pulled over and tickets and stopped, because what you are planning is reckless and unnecessary and stupid.

Rent a freakin' trailer or pay to get her shipped.

As I think you're not gonna listen...

View attachment 760370

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I have no plans to haul it on a short trailer, any trailer I might use would be longer than the HMMWV and rated for more than the 6k lbs load that would be necessary. Short trailers are just a pain to haul in the first place, and much more prone to issues when towing.

What I've been discussing is having it placed on the back of an F450 flatbed truck, which happens to be rated for 7k lbs load centered above the drive axle, so the weight and center of gravity of the HMMWV would not be in any way incorrect or illegal to haul. What I've been trying to discuss is whether or not there are any technical issues with hauling the HMMWV by using large timbers to support it, as a 12 foot flatbed isn't long enough to provide support to the rear of the HMMWV.

I've pretty much scrapped the idea of setting the HMMWV on long timbers underneath the wheels. As you said, one crack in the timbers and things go sideways fast.

The second plan was to figure out all the dimensions needed and use lag bolts to secure the timbers together so that it was a single, solid mass and unable to move. Then several straps would be run to secure the timber frame to the deck of the truck. Blocks would be placed crossways on top of the main timber frame, and also secured by lag bolts. From what I see, the frame really only needs to be blocked at a couple points for this to work, which would be directly behind the front suspension and directly in front of the rear suspension. The rear blocking point would be about the 12 foot mark as labeled above, so the main timber frame would be supported by the flatbed deck, and not need to extend past it. This means no cantilevering, and no worries about the timber frame developing cracks, as it will be fully supported. At that point the rear wheels (yes, I know they are heavy, but I've dealt with semi truck wheels so it's not an issue to me) would be removed and secured towards the front of the flatbed just behind the front wheels of the HMMWV.

Let me put this out there. It is common practice when driving a semi and hauling equipment that needs the wheels removed for either size or weight purposes to use heavy timbers to support the weight of the equipment while transporting. When properly secured the equipment does not move, it does not just randomly fall off and kill innocent people minding their own business. My main question has to do with whether or not blocking the frame of the HMMWV at several points will do any type of damage to it. Considering they've been using a forklift at most of the sale yards to move these around, it doesn't appear that there will be any issues with this method.

The reasons you mentioned above about the tires on these being old, as well as several threads I've read on the forum about flat towing, and the one guy who got a HMMWV with no gear oil in the hub (from a private seller) are the main reasons why I have zero plans to use a tow bar and do a flat tow. The risk/reward ratio is too high in my opinion.

And yes, at this point I'm still very much planning to haul the HMMWV on the back of my flatbed truck because nobody has yet posted a reason as to why it will not work. Your cantilever and broken timber comments are good points, and taking them into consideration there won't be any cantilevering involved, as it's both unnecessary, and would actually raise the center of gravity, where heavy timbers under just the frame between the front and rear suspension does not have that issue/risk.

So again, current plan is to use heavy timbers (6x12s, on edge), bolted together to form a box. That box would then be securely strapped to the flatbed truck. On top of that box of timbers would be multiple cross pieces, probably either 4x6 or 6x6, maybe even as much as 6x12, to support the frame in several places, one just behind the front suspension, one in the middle, and one just in front of the rear suspension (or in other words, along the flat portion of the frame in the middle of the HMMWV). The block directly in front of the rear suspension would be right about the 12 foot mark as labeled above by DREDnot. This means it would be supported by the end of the flatbed. At this point the rear suspension of the HMMWV would be hanging off the back of the flatbed. I'd most likely remove the wheels to reduce the weight hanging on the rear suspension, as well as moving the center of gravity just a little further forward (which is unnecessary as the CG is already at or in front of the truck's rear axle, but I don't see it doing any harm)The HMMWV would be secured by multiple chains and multiple straps to prevent it from moving. While 4 is the required number of straps/chains to secure this load, I plan to take at least twice that number to secure the load, and will use every single one. I do have lights to attach to the tail of the HMMWV as well as marker flags as required by law.

So here is a new question if anyone is willing to check for me. What is the measured distance between the frame rails at the points just behind the front suspension and just in front of the rear suspension where the frame levels off and becomes straight? And viewed directly from the side, how far in front of or behind the edge of the tire does the frame level off? If it's 6 inches or less I can use some 6x12 timbers laid flat, 7 feet long, and brace them against the tire to help keep things from moving.

DREDnot said:

How bout a picture of your rig so we can get a better idea of what you are thinking of doing

View attachment 760385

I drove flatbed tow trucks for years so Ive carried some stuff that was pushing the limits. What you are describing may be feasible if done right. Id have to see your truck, bed, and tiedown setup though

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Truck is a base model 2000 F450 with the 7.3l diesel. Flatbed is 12 feet long. I have some 1/4" by 2" steel welded under the edge of the bed, but I plan that most of my straps and chains for this load will run down to the frame as it's stronger/more secure than flat iron welded every 16 inches. (and I do plan to remove that little crane before I do this)

Quote -


'The reasons you mentioned above about the tires on these being old, as well as several threads I've read on the forum about flat towing, and the one guy who got a HMMWV with no gear oil in the hub (from a private seller) are the main reasons why I have zero plans to use a tow bar and do a flat tow. The risk/reward ratio is too high in my opinion.'

While I agree the risks of flat towing an unknown hmmwv are unacceptably high, I believe the risks of flat towing are far less than the risks of moving it as you plan.

Given a choice, I'd use an appropriate trailer. But I'd flat tow before I'd do what you're contemplating.

I would try to do this...

Instead of timbers and stuff, I would try two heavyduty pallets and two HD ratchet straps.

Instead of timbers, use the tires with pallets on top. strapped down tight and all the front and rear strapped down, you should be well within the load specs..



.

DREDnot said:

I would try to do this...

Instead of timbers and stuff, I would try two heavyduty pallets and two HD ratchet straps.

Instead of timbers, use the tires with pallets on top. strapped down tight and all the front and rear strapped down, you should be well within the load specs..

View attachment 760420

View attachment 760421.

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That's not a bad idea. Main reasons I was thinking of using timbers was I don't know how accommodating the forklift operator at the Yermo yard is going to be, whether they will let me take my time and remove the wheels and position them on the flatbed before loading, or if they are just going to try to get it loaded quickly and be done with it. The timbers are also massive overkill for this light of a load, and if I run them the length of the HMMWV frame, I can eliminate any possible movement of the front suspension as well. Plus, as I have a sawmill and 75 acres of trees, a few of which are dead standing and going to end up as lumber or firewood anyway, I can make any timbers I need.

My buddy here also brought up removing all 4 wheels, setting down a sheet of plywood on top of them, then setting the HMMWV on them. It would lower the CG a little more, but make unloading the HMMWV a little longer (not that it really matters how long it takes). It would also still require some type of support at the ends to allow the forklift to pull out.
The forklift I have access to at this end of the trip is only rated for 3500 lbs, but doing one end at a time to get the wheels reinstalled with it shouldn't be an issue. After that it's either heavy ramps or loading dock to unload.