• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

 

torquing head studs for oil leak

S

sgoeser

Member
45
1
8
Location
Brookside, Utah
I feel stupid for asking this question, having been a mechanic for 25 years and a garage owner for 17 years too. My last multi fuel engine gave me so much grief I am gun shy. Five head studs broke at the block after replacing the head gaskets. All were in the water jacket. I bought a new engine still in the shipping container with just test time on it. It runs so smooth and quiet compared to the last one. I now have a little over 3000 miles on it. The other day after pulling my stock trailer with a 1000lb. steer in it at and over 6000 feet for about 300 miles the engine throw 2 qts. of engine oil. All coming from the front of the front head. Can I see if retorquing the stud nuts will cure the problem. I'm afraid of breaking the studs as in the last engine. The crankcase has "TD" identification. Should I go for it with 157 lbs. Or back them all off and re torque as called for in the manual? Or just torque the 4 front most head stud nuts and see what happens? I have spent too much time and money on the last engine and now with finding the new replacement engine and install. I am 73 and don't climb and bend like when I was 38 and being a mechanic can't spend the money paying another to do what I use to do. Thanks for your comments.
 
Floridianson

Floridianson

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
7,390
2,437
113
Location
Interlachen Fl.
Did you use the newer style head gasket with the fire ring installed in the gasket and in bossed sealer?

Oops just reread the post and saw you did not have the heads off the new motor. My bad.
 
Last edited:
S

sgoeser

Member
45
1
8
Location
Brookside, Utah
I have no idea, sorry. I do have a correction to make. The oil went down about a 1/16 of an inch on the dipstick. Read the oil level wrong. Under the truck, on the tailgate and trailer it did look like 2 Qts.
 
cattlerepairman

cattlerepairman

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,173
3,095
113
Location
NORTH (Canada)
I retorqued mine (new style head gasket) with no ill effects. The head nuts were certainly loose, after correct install and a few hundred kilometers and hot/cold cycles. I was quite surprised.
Still...gasket is seeping.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 
cattlerepairman

cattlerepairman

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,173
3,095
113
Location
NORTH (Canada)
I usually keep boost in the 7-10 psi range. Very rarely do I not pay attention and the D turbo happily boosts up to 15.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 
Floridianson

Floridianson

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
7,390
2,437
113
Location
Interlachen Fl.
cattlerepairman said:
I usually keep boost in the 7-10 psi range. Very rarely do I not pay attention and the D turbo happily boosts up to 15.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yea last head gasket job on my Deuce was done by the last owner / my friend and he used the new style. No problems so far but the truck has been sitting for years just the fire up to move or run around the yard. Do you think yours is the gasket problem or head lifting? Don't quote me on this one but was there a thread where someone said TM said no retorque but everyone agreed that it was better to cycle up once and then retorque. I don't know if mine was done. As for this op's thread myself would go for a back off / loosen then retorque.
 
cattlerepairman

cattlerepairman

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,173
3,095
113
Location
NORTH (Canada)
From what I experienced, I definitely agree with the "retorque" crowd. As I said, new style gasket, followed the torque sequence, run it a few times and all nuts were unequal. Some looser then others but all were significantly backed off from original specs. No wonder the gasket would start leaking.

I don't think it is a bad gasket in my case. I think it is the design of the thing in general. It causes head lifting (in my opinion). I did not spring for the ARB head studs with higher clamping force because my block is not a TD block. Some people said it is not worth rebuilding in the first place. I did not think the casting would support the torque the ARB studs are made for. You should not even tighten them to TD block values.
 
S

sgoeser

Member
45
1
8
Location
Brookside, Utah
I am thinking you may have the idea with the back off then retorque. I might torque one to see how it feels first. If there is felt some binding or feels like it is tighter than 157 lbs. the back off will be needed. Thanks
 
JasonS

JasonS

Well-known member
1,643
126
63
Location
Eastern SD
sgoeser said:
I feel stupid for asking this question, having been a mechanic for 25 years and a garage owner for 17 years too. My last multi fuel engine gave me so much grief I am gun shy. Five head studs broke at the block after replacing the head gaskets. All were in the water jacket. I bought a new engine still in the shipping container with just test time on it. It runs so smooth and quiet compared to the last one. I now have a little over 3000 miles on it. The other day after pulling my stock trailer with a 1000lb. steer in it at and over 6000 feet for about 300 miles the engine throw 2 qts. of engine oil. All coming from the front of the front head. Can I see if retorquing the stud nuts will cure the problem. I'm afraid of breaking the studs as in the last engine. The crankcase has "TD" identification. Should I go for it with 157 lbs. Or back them all off and re torque as called for in the manual? Or just torque the 4 front most head stud nuts and see what happens? I have spent too much time and money on the last engine and now with finding the new replacement engine and install. I am 73 and don't climb and bend like when I was 38 and being a mechanic can't spend the money paying another to do what I use to do. Thanks for your comments.
Click to expand...
The OEMs who used a lower compression version of the multifuel in tractors blocked off the oil passages in the block/ head and ran external oil lines to the head. Presumably to address the persistent oil leaks. Suggests that this cannot be totally eliminated unless you do the same.
 
Floridianson

Floridianson

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
7,390
2,437
113
Location
Interlachen Fl.
cattlerepairman said:
From what I experienced, I definitely agree with the "retorque" crowd. As I said, new style gasket, followed the torque sequence, run it a few times and all nuts were unequal. Some looser then others but all were significantly backed off from original specs. No wonder the gasket would start leaking.

I don't think it is a bad gasket in my case. I think it is the design of the thing in general. It causes head lifting (in my opinion). I did not spring for the ARB head studs with higher clamping force because my block is not a TD block. Some people said it is not worth rebuilding in the first place. I did not think the casting would support the torque the ARB studs are made for. You should not even tighten them to TD block values.
Click to expand...
Yea thanks. Thought some said they were going with ARB and I have the TD block. I did not know about the higher torque on the TD blocks.
 
cattlerepairman

cattlerepairman

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,173
3,095
113
Location
NORTH (Canada)
From the back of my head, non-TD block torque is 132 ft lbs, TD is 157 ft lbs. Both with sequential torquing to these values.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
108,333members
163,631threads
2,302,494posts
978online users
Top
✖
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks