Oil spraying out exhaust

martinv · Jul 6, 2019

Here is how it looks now:

July 3: Drove about 36 miles to lake with no problem.
July 6: Drove about 7 miles and suddenly noticed very excessive smoke out exhaust as I was slowing to make a turn.
Stopped at gas station to investigate. Among the 1000 normal Deuce sounds, I thought I possibly heard some anomaly in the Turbo but my turbo is not the loud whistler version. I just though i heard a intermittent scraping spinning sound, but this could have been some random panel vibrating...
At this point there was no oil noticed coming out the exhaust
Within about 10 minutes a very knowledgeable Deuce owner (Dan) happened to drive by!!
We noticed the oil level seems to have gone up. Suspecting fuel in oil. UPDATE: i'm not sure if this is true, it may have been the method of measurement was at fault. Engine hot vs engine cool, perhaps oil just settled quicker in the hot engine.
Decided to try to drive 7 miles back to lake instead of 30 miles to my home.
On the way back to the lake, I saw oil splatter on the passenger side window. (Rust preventive feature?)
Even with all this smoke pouring out I didn't notice any loss of power, but was driving gently to avoid causing more issues.
Deuce is now parked at Lake.

My initial question are:

Which TM has the procedure for this type of repair?
What are the possible issues?
I would like to do a compression check. Any particular compression tester recommended?
Other advice?

A few more facts:

Less than 100 miles on the oil, oil filters and fuel filters.
Coolant level OK
I happened to have a FLIR Thermal Imaging camera with and took the following measurements just after I returned to the lake These are max readings while Deuce was still idling before shutdown:
Tip of exhaust pipe: 223 F
Radiator: 166 F
Exhaust portion of exhaust manifold area: 408F
Valve cover: 182 F
Engine a few inches below injector: 181 F

martinv · Jul 6, 2019

FLIR images:

Scrounger · Jul 6, 2019

It is probably turbo oil seal failure. Pull the clamps from the intake and exhaust from the turbo and see how much play is in the turbine. Then you can go from there.

Elijah95 · Jul 6, 2019

Fuel in oil will slip by a “weak” turbo seal easily, and it will wear on bearings quickly.

I’d fix your fuel in oil issue, then the turbo may be okay but it’s easy to rebuild and upgrade to a 360° thrust bearing and that turbo will be good for life

cattlerepairman · Jul 6, 2019

Elijah95 said:
but it’s easy to rebuild and upgrade to a 360° thrust bearing and that turbo will be good for life

That is interesting. Can you give more info for the less turbo initiated?

topo · Jul 6, 2019

Dirty air cleaner will cause turbo seals to fail also.

martinv · Jul 6, 2019

UPDATE 1:
Thanks for the replies. I should have trusted my ears. I found this nut as shown:

It appears then nut worked loose and fell off. Since this is the intake side, the nut was sucked against the blades over and over. The blades show extreme wear. It appears the blade is aluminum? I suspect the nut jammed in the blades and completely stopped the turbo at times. I assume this would quickly damage the seal? How about other parts? I guess the engine doesn't like aluminum particles, but maybe they are soft enough for the engine to survive?

I think the next step is remove entire turbo assembly, look for the seal, then look for parts. Who sells parts for this turbo type? Is there an exploded view diagram in the TM or elsewhere?

frank8003 · Jul 7, 2019

Information is in TM 9-2320-361-24-1 WP 0057 00 and in the attached PDF.

View attachment TM 9-2990-201-45 turbocharger.pdf

And let that oil drain out long time and discard it, can not use it as fuel. Put new oil filters. Could look in the oil for the shavings. After repair run it a bit and chage oil and filters again.

M543A2 · Jul 7, 2019

We had a turbo fail the seals and bearings, very black exhaust as you describe. It was at night. My son watched out the window at the stack while I drove. We could not put too much power to it without about 18" of fire coming out the stack. He would tell me when that started to happen so I could back off the accelerator. Both being diesel mechanics, we knew the fire could mean extremely high EGT and a quickly ruined engine. From the ruined seals both intake and exhaust sides of the turbo shaft we were getting oil into the intake air and the exhaust side of the turbo housing. The turbine wheel had locked so we had a very restricted intake air flow and exhaust flow. Power was way down!
Personally I would be very hesitant to rebuild that turbo myself. I would want a turbo repair shop to check it out. The shrapnel has possibly eroded the housing around the impeller which could impair the function of the turbo. I would prefer to scrap it and get another one. Disassemble the impeller from the shaft and check for any completely broken blades, not just chipped. If you find that, then where did it go? Was the intake flow velocity high enough it went clear into the engine and now is gone, or is it lying in the intake manifold somewhere still, possibly getting sucked/blown in when you have high air flow with the new turbo causing damage where the little chips off the blades we see probably will not. In that case removing the intake manifold and checking it, blowing it out is the only sure way to know. Each can address his problem in the way he wishes, the statements here are just how we would and did approach it.

martinv · Jul 7, 2019

That is interesting. I was concerned about flames also, however I think I had so much oil, it kept things cool.
Here is a 3 sec video of the smoke at my first stop just after noticing it. (before the oil started flying out):
https://youtu.be/RIgnTUkwDr4

M543A2 said:
We had a turbo fail the seals and bearings, very black exhaust as you describe. It was at night. My son watched out the window at the stack while I drove. We could not put too much power to it without about 18" of fire coming out the stack. He would tell me when that started to happen so I could back off the accelerator. Both being diesel mechanics, we knew the fire could mean extremely high EGT and a quickly ruined engine. From the ruined seals both intake and exhaust sides of the turbo shaft we were getting oil into the intake air and the exhaust side of the turbo housing. The turbine wheel had locked so we had a very restricted intake air flow and exhaust flow. Power was way down!
Personally I would be very hesitant to rebuild that turbo myself. I would want a turbo repair shop to check it out. The shrapnel has possibly eroded the housing around the impeller which could impair the function of the turbo. I would prefer to scrap it and get another one. Disassemble the impeller from the shaft and check for any completely broken blades, not just chipped. If you find that, then where did it go? Was the intake flow velocity high enough it went clear into the engine and now is gone, or is it lying in the intake manifold somewhere still, possibly getting sucked/blown in when you have high air flow with the new turbo causing damage where the little chips off the blades we see probably will not. In that case removing the intake manifold and checking it, blowing it out is the only sure way to know. Each can address his problem in the way he wishes, the statements here are just how we would and did approach it.

martinv · Jul 7, 2019

Here is 7 miles later on arriving back at lake, viewing smoke and oil:
https://youtu.be/25N-9t-1NvM

cattlerepairman · Jul 7, 2019

Holy Sh*t!

martinv · Jul 7, 2019

Update 7/7/2019:
Wasn't able to get the 4 bolts that attach to the turbo to the exhaust manifold loose. Will go back with impact wrench later.
Got picture of ID plate by holding phone camera backwards...:
Model: 3LM-39
2nd plate states "Overhauled at TEAD DATE: 6 - 92"

cattlerepairman · Jul 7, 2019

There are 2 bolts and 2 studs on the exhaust manifold. The steel hardware, after many many cycles of getting really hot, oxydizes and rusts solid. Tricks to loosen include acetone/ATF mixture (soak and let sit), AeroKroil (soak and let sit) and anger management issues involving a torch or grinder to cut all the cr*p off.
Use copper based antiseize or actual copper nuts when you reassemble.

M543A2 · Jul 7, 2019

My son says that he has rebuilt several turbo's while he worked for an engine shop. the wheel was always balanced as a unit with the shaft and most had grinding done to the shaft and wheel together at the same time behind the nut on both intake and exhaust. when rebuilding them a "cartridge" was supplied that had the bearings and seals in it then the OLD shaft was used with the wheels aligned exactly as they came off of the shaft. some may not be this way but most are. he had a shaft break during a dyno run on a rebuilt turbo from a supplier and the engine fed off the resulting oil and tried to run away until he loaded the dyno and shut off the intake air supply. since the nut has come off, the wheel has pulled itself into the housing while trying to suck the air in and i wouldn't trust it. too much chance of a runaway engine! to my knowledge only Detroit Diesel had a factory emergency air shutoff. This is why every dyno should have one attached to the engine. the engine has injested metal, this usually is not a problem since it is ground to glitter. you can hook up a shop vac to the intake and slowly bar the motor over to allow it to remove metal from intake through the valve overlap. If a large enough piece gets into a cylinder he has seen them stick to a piston and hit the head when hot making a knocking sound. while you are turning it by hand (sometimes a large screwdriver thru the drain in the bell housing works) feel for this. it sometimes can break down ring lands. Good luck!

martinv · Jul 7, 2019

I sprayed on some WD-40 and other penetrating oil. It has to sit for a few days until I can get back there anyway.
In the meantime i'm looking up turbo parts and options. Would be nice if someone could find a way to make one of the $200-$400 new turbos fit and work. Won't be me anytime soon as I barely know the basic operation of turbos.

cattlerepairman said:
There are 2 bolts and 2 studs on the exhaust manifold. The steel hardware, after many many cycles of getting really hot, oxydizes and rusts solid. Tricks to loosen include acetone/ATF mixture (soak and let sit), AeroKroil (soak and let sit) and anger management issues involving a torch or grinder to cut all the cr*p off.
Use copper based antiseize or actual copper nuts when you reassemble.

rustystud · Jul 11, 2019

martinv said:
I sprayed on some WD-40 and other penetrating oil. It has to sit for a few days until I can get back there anyway.
In the meantime i'm looking up turbo parts and options. Would be nice if someone could find a way to make one of the $200-$400 new turbos fit and work. Won't be me anytime soon as I barely know the basic operation of turbos.

The only one making parts for our turbos is a Chinese company. The problem is they cost more then a good used turbo. I would look into that instead of trying to rebuild this unit. Also there are turbos that will fit our deuce. The problem is the performance curve. All turbos are designed for a specific application or range of performance. Our deuces mainly used the turbo to clean-up the exhaust smoke, so any other turbo would add more boost then our engines where designed for.
Last year I looked into getting a new turbo for my deuce. The Ford 6.7L Power Stroke diesel was the closest fit. The problem was to much boost though.

davidb56 · Jul 11, 2019

rustystud said:
The only one making parts for our turbos is a Chinese company. The problem is they cost more then a good used turbo. I would look into that instead of trying to rebuild this unit. Also there are turbos that will fit our deuce. The problem is the performance curve. All turbos are designed for a specific application or range of performance. Our deuces mainly used the turbo to clean-up the exhaust smoke, so any other turbo would add more boost then our engines where designed for.
Last year I looked into getting a new turbo for my deuce. The Ford 6.7L Power Stroke diesel was the closest fit. The problem was to much boost though.

how about a adjustable waste gate?

sue · Jul 11, 2019

I only use nickel anti-seize on exhaust stuff.

rustystud · Jul 12, 2019

davidb56 said:
how about a adjustable waste gate?

That was the problem. The Ford unit didn't have one, but according to the Turbo rebuilder I was working with it could be done but the cost was really high. I didn't want to spend $1200.00 at the time though.

Oil spraying out exhaust

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