It was one of those days...

Coug · Oct 30, 2019

...where everything seems to go just right.

So today was a pretty good day.

Backstory:

I bought a truck at the start of April, picked it up at the end of May. M1123 with a serial number from 2000.

Then waited 2 months, SF-97 never came. Auction listing said "Sells with clean SF-97" and invoice page didn't give me an option to purchase one. Made me think it was included, because "sells with" doesn't mean "is available to purchase separately"

So 3 months ago I contacted them, did the paperwork and ordered the SF-97. The site says it should be a month or two.

2 months pass, I email them again. A week goes by, they finally respond and say "it's being processed"

3 weeks later (last week) I got an email with a Fedex tracking number for the SF-97. Was pretty happy about that.

Tracking number said it would be here Wednesday. It showed up Monday (yesterday).

Tuesday (today) I took it down to an independent licensing office (we have a lot of those in Washington State)

Lady behind the counter starts entering the info, gets almost done then something "6500" shows up. Not sure if it was a charge or a flag code of some type in the system.

She calls the State licensing office, talks to someone who says they have to talk to someone else. They'll call back.

2 hours later, still sitting in the licensing office and no call back. Different lady in the office calls them and checks up on everything.

Whatever the "6500" was, it's been removed from the system, and I proceed to pay difference in sales tax ($150ish) and licensing fees.

So finally my M1123 is legal for me to drive in Washington State with no restrictions.

Then a little bit ago I got curious about the engine, because I hadn't done all the research on everything yet, as I didn't want to start blowing money on a truck that might not be able to be licensed here. Found out that 2000 is not one of the better years for the 6.5L block. Not the worst, but far from the best.

Went outside in the dark and cold (below freezing right now) and located my engine date.

Turns out, when they rebuilt my truck (with 26 miles on it according to the rebuild tag) they replaced the engine with a rebuilt one. Rebuild tag on engine matches rebuild tag on door frame.

Engine in truck is a 2005 6500 Optimizer, a much better block than the 2000 GM motor was from everything I can find. So another reason to be very happy with today.

So doesn't really add much to the forum information wise, but thought I'd share my happy thoughts with everyone.

riderdan · Oct 30, 2019

Awesome. We all love having that kind of day more than the kind where everything goes wrong

JEB · Oct 30, 2019

I live in Washington and have been told repeatedly at independent licensing offices and telephone calls with the county and State Department of Licensing...that HMMWVS are not road legal in the state.
What gives?

Coug · Oct 30, 2019

I've been told that as well, but somehow my M1123 made it through with just that slight snag.

The big thing I think is that it came from the Marines and not the Army/DLA so it never had the "off road use only" stamp on the SF-97.

I know the DMV put out a guidance letter early this year saying not to title for road use ANY military vehicle unless it has an FMVSS decal on it (which only OHSKOSH seems to put on) but of the two offices I talked to the first said they'd need a State Patrol inspection before they'd title it, and the second one just stated entering it into the computer. One of the other ladies at the 2nd office asked if it was road legal, my response was "I'd assume so, there's no restrictions on the paperwork" (plus I did add the mud flaps, license plate light and reverse lights, which my cop uncle said were all it really needed to be on the road). It's an A2 model truck so it has the 3 point seat belts and stuff like that.

It's really hit or miss. I know a couple people that brought them in with an out of state title, and had no issues other than being asked a couple questions whether it had the required safety gear like the seat belts. One of the dealerships around here even had a used M1123 for sale someone had traded in a few months ago, and were asking under $20k for it.

TOBASH · Oct 30, 2019

I love a good story with a happy ending!

JEB · Oct 30, 2019

By coincidence, today I had to go to a Washington state independent licensing office to renew tabs for a car and truck.

Just for fun I asked them about HMMWV licenses and specifically mentioned the points brought up in the first post.

They WOULD NOT tell me what the code 6500 means...When I directly asked them they said it means a referral to the State Patrol! But would not tell me mote.
Huh?

They were emphatic they share law prohibits licensing HMMWVS, regardless of our of state titles or USMC history.

They said any title or license issued would likely be repealed by the state HQ office...and the person may..or may not...get their fees back. If that happens, the state will gladly keep whatever sales tax was paid.

When I pointed out that a restored military spec HMMWV was recently offered by a very high end Seattle dealer, he said they can sell all they want, it's the buyer who is going to find out his truck image legal.

The agent said he had a neighbor with a HMMWV and it's licensed in Montana. I'm his opinion, they guy will likely get in trouble if he's ever pulled over since the driver lives in the state and has a Washington Drivers Licence.

In short, he said the state Dept of licensing makes the rules.
And based on my person experience on this subject earlier this year, the WSP and the DOL are intransigent on this subject.

at my urging my local state senator introduced a bill allowing historic military vehicles to be licensed in this legislative session. They it died in committee...no explanation given.

So much for having one in the People's Republic of Washington.
The bureaucracy has spoken and any dissent will likely get you sent to the gulag.

Coug · Oct 30, 2019

JEB said:
By coincidence, today I had to go to a Washington state independent licensing office to renew tabs for a car and truck.

Just for fun I asked them about HMMWV licenses and specifically mentioned the points brought up in the first pist.

They WOULD NOT tell me what the code 6500 means...When I directly asked them they said it means a referral to the State Patrol! But would not tell me mote.
Huh?

They were emphatic they share law prohibits licensing HMMWVS, regardless of our of state titles or USMC history.

They said any title or license issued would likely be repealed by the state HQ office...and the person may..or may not...get their fees back. If that happens, the state will gladly keep whatever sales tax was paid.I

When I pointed out that a restored military spec HMMWV was recently offered by a very high end Seattle dealer, he said they can sell all they want, it's the buyer who is going to find out his truck image legal.

The agent said he had a neighbor with a HMMWV and it's licensed in Montana. I'm his opinion, they guy will likely get in trouble if he's ever pulled over since the driver lives in the state and has a Washington Drivers Licence.

In short, he said the state Dept of licensing makes the rules.
And based on my person experience on this subject earlier this year, the WSP and the DOL are intransigent on this subject.

at my urging my local state senator introduced a bill allowing historic military vehicles to be licensed in this legislative session. They it died in committee...no explanation given.

So much for having one in the People's Republic of Washington.
The bureaucracy has spoken and any dissent will likely get you sent to the gulag.

I know that there's a bill being worked on again over on this side of the mountains by one of the local guys who is in the PNW Steel Soldiers facebook page, and he's also talking with the AMVO group on Facebook.

JEB · Oct 30, 2019

That's good to hear.
From my recent experiences, I'm not optimistic.
Even proposing the simple adding of HMMWVs to the list of historic vehicles doesn't interest them. The bureaucracy does not seem interested in any sort of comorimise.
When I asked an assistant to the director of the DOL what could be done to come to a common sense compromise, he said nothing. ..their rule was THE rule.
Period, and of story.I

Yes, I appreciate that a HMMWV doesn't have the magic safety decal, but is one any less safe than a Model T or '57 Chevy?
Of course not.

dmetalmiki · Oct 31, 2019

'And so you should, We all of us, need a happy day/s.

tavakr · Jun 12, 2021

Coug said:
...where everything seems to go just right.

So today was a pretty good day.

Backstory:

I bought a truck at the start of April, picked it up at the end of May. M1123 with a serial number from 2000.

Then waited 2 months, SF-97 never came. Auction listing said "Sells with clean SF-97" and invoice page didn't give me an option to purchase one. Made me think it was included, because "sells with" doesn't mean "is available to purchase separately"

So 3 months ago I contacted them, did the paperwork and ordered the SF-97. The site says it should be a month or two.

2 months pass, I email them again. A week goes by, they finally respond and say "it's being processed"

3 weeks later (last week) I got an email with a Fedex tracking number for the SF-97. Was pretty happy about that.

Tracking number said it would be here Wednesday. It showed up Monday (yesterday).

Tuesday (today) I took it down to an independent licensing office (we have a lot of those in Washington State)

Lady behind the counter starts entering the info, gets almost done then something "6500" shows up. Not sure if it was a charge or a flag code of some type in the system.

She calls the State licensing office, talks to someone who says they have to talk to someone else. They'll call back.

2 hours later, still sitting in the licensing office and no call back. Different lady in the office calls them and checks up on everything.

Whatever the "6500" was, it's been removed from the system, and I proceed to pay difference in sales tax ($150ish) and licensing fees.

So finally my M1123 is legal for me to drive in Washington State with no restrictions.

Then a little bit ago I got curious about the engine, because I hadn't done all the research on everything yet, as I didn't want to start blowing money on a truck that might not be able to be licensed here. Found out that 2000 is not one of the better years for the 6.5L block. Not the worst, but far from the best.

Went outside in the dark and cold (below freezing right now) and located my engine date.

Turns out, when they rebuilt my truck (with 26 miles on it according to the rebuild tag) they replaced the engine with a rebuilt one. Rebuild tag on engine matches rebuild tag on door frame.

Engine in truck is a 2005 6500 Optimizer, a much better block than the 2000 GM motor was from everything I can find. So another reason to be very happy with today.

So doesn't really add much to the forum information wise, but thought I'd share my happy thoughts with everyone.

Hi,

can you tell my what office you went to get it titled?

I am having hard time here in Spokane valley

Coug · Jun 12, 2021

tavakr said:
Hi,

can you tell my what office you went to get it titled?

I am having hard time here in Spokane valley

Welcome to the group. There is also a facebook group for the Pacific NorthWest military vehicle owners that goes by a related name (PNW Steel Soldiers) if you're interested. We do occasional group activities with our rigs, but most of us seem to be based on the westside here so this is where most of the activities happen. Next month we have a rally we do yearly, and usually take a drive as a convoy or some other activity. Even if you aren't licensed yet you can trailer your truck over or even come without it and hang out, seeing everyone else's trucks. We're expecting at least 5 HMMWVs this year, possibly up to 10.

Here is the link to the site

Twin City Licensing (Registration & Title) - DOL

Twin City Licensing (Registration & Title) hours of operation, address, available services & more.

local.dmv.org

Even they can't do everything, but they are at least willing to try. I know many offices will flat out refuse to touch anything military no matter what the laws actually say.

From what I understand though if yours is an M998 you'll have a harder time, and a really hard time if it has the "off road only" stamp on the SF-97.

tavakr · Jun 12, 2021

Coug said:
Here is the link to the site

Twin City Licensing (Registration & Title) - DOL

Twin City Licensing (Registration & Title) hours of operation, address, available services & more.

local.dmv.org

Even they can't do everything, but they are at least willing to try. I know many offices will flat out refuse to touch anything military no matter what the laws actually say.

Thanks so much…

so you were able to get your HMMWV titled for on road and got normal plates?

what documentation did you have to provide?

Coug · Jun 12, 2021

tavakr said:
Thanks so much…

so you were able to get your HMMWV titled for on road and got normal plates?

what documentation did you have to provide?

been 2 years now so hard to remember exactly, but I know I had my SF-97, and the invoice/bill of sale showing how much I paid for it, along with how much tax I had to pay. Without that you'd have to pay full value for the local tax rate.

The licensing office only made me pay the difference between sales tax at place of purchase and the local sales tax.

Plates are just standard plates for on road use, same as any other pickup would get.

EDIT: I added a little to the previous post while you were making your reply to me, just in case you missed it

Coug · Jun 12, 2021

just to add, my truck is an M1123 and had the clean SF-97 paperwork.

No inspection required or anything else.

2 years ago the DMV at the state level put out a letter to all offices telling them NOT to license any military surplus truck unless the owner could prove it had an FMVSS decal on the doorframe. As far as I know it was only a guidance, and doesn't have any weight of law to back it up, but most employees, especially at the government offices, will cover their butts and not make the attempt to process it because of that.

tavakr · Jun 12, 2021

Coug said:
Welcome to the group. There is also a facebook group for the Pacific NorthWest military vehicle owners that goes by a related name (PNW Steel Soldiers) if you're interested. We do occasional group activities with our rigs, but most of us seem to be based on the westside here so this is where most of the activities happen. Next month we have a rally we do yearly, and usually take a drive as a convoy or some other activity. Even if you aren't licensed yet you can trailer your truck over or even come without it and hang out, seeing everyone else's trucks. We're expecting at least 5 HMMWVs this year, possibly up to 10.

Here is the link to the site

Twin City Licensing (Registration & Title) - DOL

Twin City Licensing (Registration & Title) hours of operation, address, available services & more.

local.dmv.org

Even they can't do everything, but they are at least willing to try. I know many offices will flat out refuse to touch anything military no matter what the laws actually say.

From what I understand though if yours is an M998 you'll have a harder time, and a really hard time if it has the "off road only" stamp on the SF-97.

Thanks so much for the invite and sharing your knowledge. Will check it out.

I actually got a M1123 and really upset over my DMV experience the other day. My SF97 is clean and no mention of off road only.

I have been researching this a lot since then and it appears SB5417 | Washington 2019-2020 | Authorizing military surplus vehicles to operate on public highways was put into law last year which has a clear path to titling under the collector provision.

I’m a fighter, so not giving up yet!

Coug · Jun 12, 2021

tavakr said:
Thanks so much for the invite and sharing your knowledge. Will check it out.

I actually got a M1123 and really upset over my DMV experience the other day. My SF97 is clean and no mention of off road only.

I have been researching this a lot since then and it appears SB5417 | Washington 2019-2020 | Authorizing military surplus vehicles to operate on public highways was put into law last year which has a clear path to titling under the collector provision.

I’m a fighter, so not giving up yet!

That isn't what I heard.
I was under the impression that it got set to the side for that session, and was supposed to be reintroduced the next session, then the covid crap took over.

I'm showing both it and the House version have this as their last entry:

Jan 13 By resolution, reintroduced and retained in present status.

Washington State Legislature

app.leg.wa.gov

Washington State Legislature

app.leg.wa.gov

Besides that, I like being able to drive my truck anywhere I want and at anytime I want, and not be in violation of any of their crap.

tavakr · Jun 14, 2021

Coug said:
That isn't what I heard.
I was under the impression that it got set to the side for that session, and was supposed to be reintroduced the next session, then the covid crap took over.

I'm showing both it and the House version have this as their last entry:

Jan 13 By resolution, reintroduced and retained in present status.

Washington State Legislature

app.leg.wa.gov

Washington State Legislature

app.leg.wa.gov

Besides that, I like being able to drive my truck anywhere I want and at anytime I want, and not be in violation of any of their crap.

Hey Coug,

I have one more question for you please:

when you got your Humvee titled , did they give you a standard VIN number or do you keep the short, I believe 6 digit hmmwv provided one?

Coug · Jun 14, 2021

tavakr said:
Hey Coug,

I have one more question for you please:

when you got your Humvee titled , did they give you a standard VIN number or do you keep the short, I believe 6 digit hmmwv provided one?

It's still just a 6 digit number.
I'm pretty sure that's the reason for a code being thrown up in their system; they had to contact State Patrol to verify that it was valid to use or something like that. Once State Patrol or whoever it was verified it was okay in the system, I paid and they handed me my plates.

tavakr · Jun 14, 2021

Coug said:
It's still just a 6 digit number.
I'm pretty sure that's the reason for a code being thrown up in their system; they had to contact State Patrol to verify that it was valid to use or something like that. Once State Patrol or whoever it was verified it was okay in the system, I paid and they handed me my plates.

Thanks so much for your quick replies and help…. Really appreciated

Coug · Jun 14, 2021

I do know there was a guy in this area a couple years back that had a truck with a 6 digit vin, that then sold it off to a dealership. That dealership listed it with a 17 digit vin, the last 6 numbers were the truck serial number and I don't remember what they used to fill out the rest of the vin.

It was one of those days...

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