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Thread: Split brake system

  1. #31
    4 Star General jesusgatos's Avatar
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    I'm really interested in this too. Today I took out the air tanks on my M109 so I can put a water tank where they were (air tanks are going up on top of the roof). So this has got me thinking about what I would have to do to upgrade to a dual-circuit braking system.
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    Sergeant Major Rattlewagon's Avatar
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    I thought of something else that might be an option. It could be complicated and potentially expensive though.

    Has anyone given thought to changing over to all air brakes? Are there even parts that would remotely come close to fitting?

    I’ve had a CDL for years so it wouldn’t bother me... however, sourcing all of the parts does give me some concerns... and of course, realizing that whatever I do could have a direct impact on the safety of not only myself but others as well concerns me as well… then again, so does having no redundancy in the current brakes does too…

    It would be nice to have rear service brakes as parking brakes though! That would be cool!

    Just another thought. Shoot holes in it all you want, please!

    Thanks,
    dan

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    3 Star General wdbtchr's Avatar
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    I believe there was a thread on this some time back, I don't remember the details though.
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    Default hydraulic fuse

    Just throwing this out there, would placing three hydraulic fuses in the brake system work?
    I was thinking one for each axle. That way in the case of a blown brake cylinder or broken line you would loose just the brakes on that axle.
    When a hydraulic system is damaged, there is generally a rapid flow of hydraulic fluid towards the breach. Most hydraulic fuses detect this flow and seal themselves if the flow exceeds a predetermined limit. There are many different fuse designs but most involve a passive spring-controlled mechanism which closes when the pressure differential across the fuse becomes excessive.
    As an aircraft mechanic Iíve seen these used quite often on large aircraft.
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  6. #35
    Blind squirrel rehabiltator Speddmon's Avatar
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    outcast, I was tyring to think of a way to do something similar with some sort of flow metering device or restricting device. That idea sounds like it has potential.

    I was also thinking of something else...please someone who has a lot more experience with MV's and MV trailers tell my if I've lost my marbles or if it could conceivably work?

    Most of the trailers I've seen have an air braking system used through the glad hand couplers at the rear of the truck. I will not admit to understanding the operation of this system that's why I'm asking for people with more experience with these to chime in. But, would it be possible to use the service brake master cylinder from a trailer, along with it's air/pressure regulator (whatever it uses) and tap into the service air line going to the rear glad hand coupler. That way when you apply the brakes, it applies air to the new MC/regulator set-up and applies brakes to whatever axle you have that MC hooked into???
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    Sergeant Major army70deuce's Avatar
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    First question, I have a 1970 Air Force M35A2 (the army in army70deuce is because I'm ARMY). Is there a really easy way to tell if I've got an upgraded dual circuit system?

    Second Question, Do I really need a dual circuit system, the military didn't see it as an issue for decades, and my understanding and please correct me if I'm wrong but brake failures should have a warning sign its not "wow these are perfect and half a second later turns into oh god no brakes." Since I won't be driving down mountain passes at 70mph with a full load in the back, shouldn't I have time to go "hey something's wrong" and start downshifting and then apply the E-brake to get to a stop?

    I apologize for the run on sentence.

  8. #37
    4 Star General AceHigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by army70deuce View Post
    First question, I have a 1970 Air Force M35A2 (the army in army70deuce is because I'm ARMY). Is there a really easy way to tell if I've got an upgraded dual circuit system?

    Second Question, Do I really need a dual circuit system, the military didn't see it as an issue for decades, and my understanding and please correct me if I'm wrong but brake failures should have a warning sign its not "wow these are perfect and half a second later turns into oh god no brakes." Since I won't be driving down mountain passes at 70mph with a full load in the back, shouldn't I have time to go "hey something's wrong" and start downshifting and then apply the E-brake to get to a stop?

    I apologize for the run on sentence.
    I have a dual circuit truck, it has two separate air packs and lots of plumbing underneath. I do not know if there was a simpler system in 1970, but it is real easy to see compared to a single circuit system.

    The military upgraded engines, seatbelts, and any other items from time to time but never bothered with the brakes and that tells me they thought a properly maintained system as built was safe.

  9. #38
    Sergeant Major army70deuce's Avatar
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    Another question I forgot to ask. When the brakes do fail on a M35 do they fail open or closed (locked)? I know on a lot of military trailers with airbrakes the air supplied keeps the brakes open so you can tow it and they fail in the closed (brakes on) position, so no air and you're just dragging the trailer and smoking the wheels.

    Thanks

  10. #39
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    If the system fails, it fails to "no brakes".
    Don't worry about the size difference

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    And yes it can go from just fine to no brakes in a hurry. I was driving my father in laws deuce to go get some lumber, Im glad he lives down a long dirt road or I would have been at highway speeds before the brakes gave out. I was coming to the stop sign before the highway and the brakes went from fine to the floor. Fortunately I was coasting and was slow enough that down shifting and turning into the grass stopped me. I got out and sure enough there was brake fluid all over the drive inside front tire. The rubber brake hose had burst. I drove it back to his house in low gear using the tranny to brake when I needed.

    On a side note I replace the front brake lines with braided stainless lines. The hard lines were pretty bad if it was my truck it would have gotten all new brake lines and cylinders, but being that its not my Deuce I dont have the money to throw at it.

    The point of the whole fiasco is if I had dual circuit I still would have had rear brakes and would have had less a chance of hitting something or someone.

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