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Deuce vs. civilian trailer wiring

ATC

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As some may know, I plan on using a Deuce as a tow-rig. I will be towing a buddy's trailer until I can find the funds for my own. My original short-term plan was to use a charged 12V car battery strapped in the rear of the truck (or on the trailer) to run the lights with a simple on/off switch on the brake pedal for the brake lights.

Trailer brakes were something I have thought of, with no real answers other than manual trailer brakes (M/C on the trailers coupler), however I can't do that on my buddies trailer...and when it comes time for me to purchase one, that would limit my trailer choices drastically :|:?:

Is there any device that can step 24V down to 12V? Could I wire everything up to just one battery?

As you can probably tell, I am not good with electric circuits/electronics, and have no experience with electric trailer brakes and their controllers.

I did read: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=28977 which sounded promising...
 

chvss65

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What I Thought of doing was to use a magnetic taillight set up OD Iron sells them with the 24V bulbs in them link below

http://www.odiron.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_37&products_id=666

I found them cheaper (12V) some where but cant find my link, but it was only $10 or there abouts difference so by the time a person puts different bulbs in ?

Then you can use it on most any trailer once you truck wiring is set, I think they may have the adapter for that setup also

Just a different way, and less modifications all the way around

OR make up an adapter on the truck to work with your given trailers and temporarily swap out the 12v bulbs with 24v ones ?
 

dabtl

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I would go with mounting the military rear lights off a deuce onto the trailers either magnetically or mechanically using a long extension line.

Used of eBay the lights are cheap, wire is cheap and the hassle would be a lot less.

On the other hand, I bet Bjorn (cranetruck) has either done the 24v/12v thing or could tell you immediately how to do it in language you could understand. I am a lawyer, not an electrician, and he has aided me no end in understanding the electrical system.
 

clinto

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The absolute best choice for you is a converter box.

The box is plugged in between your 24V Deuce and the civilian 12V trailer. It plugs into the Deuces trailer receptacle and the civilian trailer's 4, 6 or 7 pin connector plugs into the other side of the box.

This is absolutely the best way. This allows you to keep the converter box in the deuce and pull any trailer without prep.

Check these threads (the first link, thread 10227, has a great converter box):

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=10227

Ryan Gill's description of his converter box is here:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=16578
 

rmgill

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As Clinto describes there are several ways to do things, the best is in such a way that the trailer brakes are actuated by your own brakes either by air pressure OR by the brake light switch on your truck. Depending on the size of the trailer you're towing, you could get into REAL trouble if the brakes on the trailer aren't working when you need them.

The best way is a 24-12 volt converter in the cab. This allows you to monitor the brakes on the trailer for function AND allows you to manually actuate them (also handy for backing up and setting them to bump the automatic adjusters in a purposeful manner :wink: ). The 5 tons have an extra lead on the 12 pin connector that provides 24 volt power so if you want to run a battery charger back there for the breakaway circuit you'll have to do something else on a deuce. I wired up that line on my deuce for 12 volt power to the rear (on the same pin) AND ran an additional pair of wires to the back of the truck from the brake controller. An electric brake controller MUST have the ground and 12 volt brake signal on it's own paths and they MUST be large enough for the current load. Having a fuse pop, a breaker blow or worse, a wire melt because of the current draw (too many amps) during a panic stop is NOT the idea of a good day to me. :roll:

So, you've got 12 volts in the cab, you run two wires from the 12 volt supply. one goes to a 20 amp breaker or fuse and thence to the brake controller. One goes to another breaker or fuse and to the trailer power connector, check the wiring, I can't recall the pin, but you can break the connector down and solder a wire to the appropriate pin to get the straight power lead to the trailer (check a van trailer TM for the correct pin, I think it's H now that I'm thinking about it.) But for your purposes just run the lead to the back of the truck. We'll tap that into the trailer a different way.

The power to the brake controller gets spit. you need to TELL the brake controller when you're on the brakes right? That's a switch on the brake pedal BUT that's currently running 24 volts as a signal to the brake lights. You can't run that in to the controller, it'll let the smoke out. So, I opted for a second brake signal light on my truck. Deuces have two places for them on the brake master cylinder. There's an Air line brake signal switch and an hydraulic pressure brake signal switch. Figure out which one you don't have and order that part from Saturn Surplus. If you don't like the idea of this you could go with a relay and work it that way OR add in an additional switch on the air line. There are several ways to do this, non is really the best way.

Mount the brake controller where you can glance at it. I can reach down with my left hand and find it and hit the manual switch as sort of a check to see if the trailer is there or not. It also allows me to, on wet ground, check to see that every tire is locking up when I start a trip. Start a shallow turn slowly advance at 5mph and bump the lever you should be able to see the brakes actuate on each tire and lock that tire. Good way to know that the brakes are working. No working brakes, again, a BAD thing. I just wish I could easily check on the deuce this way.

So, run the 12 brake and ground lines back to the trailer along with your 12 power signal. For your purposes, you're wanting to not modify an existing trailer right? So, the trick here is to find a plastic project or electrical box from home depot's electrical department or Lowes or an electronic supply store. Get yourself a civilian trailer connector that matches the type your target trailer has (make sure brake leads are included). Build yourself a male to male cable with a receptacle for your cable on the adaptor box. you can permanently mount it in the truck under the frame OR you can toss it in the bed. It'll have some mounting feet, so you could put some strong magnets on it so it doesn't slide around in the bed.

So now you need to provide power to your trailer lights right? Well, you can run a trailer connector from the 12 pin on the truck OR tap off of the lights off the rear harness. Add in a splitter, run that to the control box and run those to the appropriate pins on your civilian receptacle.

So, you now have coming into the adaptor box, 12 volt power, brake ground, 12 volt brake signal, Brake, left turn signal, right turn signal. Add a ground lead from this and run it to the truck's frame somewhere. For basic power, you can never have too many ground leads. Connect those leads inside the project box to some screw type terminals (radio shack) and run them through the sides of the box through a sealing bulkhead conduit fixture that you get from Home Depot or some such (you want the box to stay water proof). You can install a conduit fixture with a downward bend and squirt some silicone caulk into it for a simple way to seal it up.

So, now, the question of how to get the brake and trailer lights to work. Do you run a set of relays or do you swap the bulbs. One way is more fiddly, the other is more time consuming when you're borrowing the trailer. You can find most bulbs in 12 volt in a 24 volt form, though it is harder with some types. Some can be found in 12-24 volt form in LED format (a nice upgrade) if not cheap.

Relays are a nice way to go. Bjorn will endorse these as well. they're pretty simple electrically too. Basically it's a coil (wire wrapped around an iron core) with a reed switch. You have 4 key points on a relay to wire. The coil, (two pins) and the switch (two pins). When you have power running through the coil, the switch closes due to the coil turning the iron core in to a magnet and closeing the reed switch. Certain relays are rated for certain voltages and amperages, but in this case it's low so you should be able to find 3 at radio shack for your purposes. Oh, if you have a frys nearby that'll work too, probably better source of eletrical parts as well.

So, wire your trailer lights to the switched parts of the relays. Run the supply for those to the 12 volt power coming into the box. Those relays can be found with sockets so you can mount the sockets in the project box and move them around as you choose for testing or replacement. The coil sides go to the truck's brake, and turn signal lines to each of the specific relays for the trailer.

Connect your now 12 volt signals leads for brake, and turn lights, your brake 12 volt and ground and the 12 volt power lead to the civilian trailer socket in the box and start testing this.


A Digital multi meter is a VERY good thing to have to start trying to understand how basic electrical components work. There's nothing fancy here except for separating voltages and making sure you're not making a short (12 or 24 power direct to ground). For the purposes of operation, a coil while VERY low current draw DOES have a current draw and while taking a lead in putting it to ground is a short, putting the same lead onto a coil for a relay does not create a short. The coil has enough distance that it has resistance and thus some current draw.

Test your work, make sure it does what you want. By using screw terminals strips, you can move wires around if you make a mistake instead of having to cut and resolder wires. Use terminal strips, some good terminal crimpers and you won't have to solder, though a soldered connection is better. You could crimp them all, then go back and solder and seal them. I use the paint on electrical tape for sealing electrics because that gets into cracks that tape and heat shrink doesn't get into.

Mind you, since I wasn't swapping the trailer with someone else, I went ahead and kept the system jut using my own brake and turn lights in 24 volts. That is easier in design BUT as I said, having to swap the bulbs out or replacing all your friend's bulbs after you forgot and blew them on 24 volts is a pain.

A side note, with the deuce's suspension and the tag setup, get the weight as far forwards on the trailer as you can, that'll have the least amount of bounce. The Lunnette eyes can take it unless we're talking about a serious amount of weight. A 3" lunnette eye can handle FAR more down force than a conventional hitch and ball can. Squirt truck can explain this more since he breaks things like this for a living. I also modified his idea for a trailer adaptor to my own purposes.
 
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rmgill

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Oh, do be sure that the wires gauges you run for certain functions are up to the task.


14 gauge will work for the lights and relays. BUT the 12 volt power lead should probably be 12 volts. You'll be running a breakaway charger/battery too right?

The trailer brake and ground leads should be 10 gauge for safety and peace of mind.

The additional expansive details that Clinto cites above is post #67.
 

rmgill

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That post has a schematic thats useful. The pin for power is K, not H (not relevant for your purposes). And that schematic doesn't include the power for the trailer lights because I'm drawing off the truck directly.
 

m16ty

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I've got a old military folding neck trailer (can't remember the "M" number off the top of my head). It has a box that you can plug either a 12 or 24 volt pigtail in so I'm assuming it will work for both but I haven't looked to see how it's wired up.

As for brakes, If I was going to buy or build a trailer that wouldn't ever be pulled with anything but the deuce I'd go with staight air brakes. Your truck is already setup for it and it would be alot less complicated than a air over hyd. setup. You could go with electric brakes but you'll have to add a controler to the truck and won't work near as well as air brakes.
 

rmgill

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The military trailers that are dual voltage take a low tech approach and use three step down resistors for dropping the voltage. They are big and I suspect make some heat so they need to be in a metal box of some sort. I dislike such methods because it waste power and is just additional load on an already light electrical system (mostly in the 3 lever switch).

As to air brakes, no doubt that is simpler, but you still need to sort out the electrics.
 

MikeON

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rmgill:
This is how my deuce is set up. I used cheap 12v relays with a resistor in the line coming to the switching terminal to drop that to 12v and protect the relay.

A word of caution with 12v converters. I got a cheap 15 amp converter on ebay. After everything was connected, I thought I'd test whether the trailer brakes alone would hold the deuce on a slight upgrade, using the manual control on the Tekonsha Prodigy controller. They did for a few seconds, then I started rolling backwards. I had fried the 12v converter, even though it had 20 amp fuses and was supposed to have automatic resetting overcurrent protection. The seller replaced the converter free of charge. I've been using this replacement for over a year without problem, but have also not repeated the above test, just using it normally. Before I do any heavy towing involving steep grades, I plan to either get a heavier-duty controller or wire the brake controller straight off of one battery.
 

ATC

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Thank you guys very much for your help. I'd like to wire everything up to a standard 6 or 7 pin connector that you find on civilian trucks. That way, all I have to do is plug the trailer in and go. I think I got everything down, and it looks to be fairly simple. My father has repaired and sold 24V, 36V, and 48V forklifts and pallet-jacks for the past 20-some years (Raymond stuff), so I know he can help me with this project...

I'm sure I will be back with specific questions once I decide to go through with this project. I'm just happy to know that it can be done :-D
 

rmgill

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I went with one that would sustain 20 amps and surge 30 amps. I'm leaning towards replacing it with a hefty unit from Newmar but haven't yet.
 

Blythewoodjoe

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I have been following your situation and I have wondered one thing. Can you flat tow the Bronco? I used to pull my Wrangler everywhere with my deuce. It followed great. I usually just cut the flashers on the jeep on for lights. I towed my jeep to Aberdeen one year that way. It sure would make life easier.

Just a thought,
Joe Trapp
 

bgekky3

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I flat tow my Toyota (to the left) or put it in the bed on a regular basis depending on how far I am going and if I am running asphalt or sand. It is nice to have the cover on and AC and shade during the hot race days. I have 8" axles so your bronco might be too wide to fit in the bed. I run mag lights when I flat tow.
 

ATC

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No, I cannot (and will not) flat tow the Bronco. Mud tires are expensive and wear out fast on asphalt (Non-balanced 38" Super Swampers.). Lockers/spools will probably cause it to do funny things while turning (and double the wear on the tires). Increased wear and tear on bearings and gears that are already being pushed to their limits off-road. Not to mention, what happens when I break something while fourwheeling? Leave it at the loading/unloading spot until I can come back to fix it then tow it back?
 

gimpyrobb

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ATC, get a second set of rims and tires for the flat tow, I bet the swampers fit in the bed! Thats what I will do with my M725. .02
 

ATC

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Wrestling with (4) 150+lb tires that are covered in mud twice a day doesn't sound fun. Especially lifting them onto the Deuce's bed. I'd have to wrestle around a jack (in a field, or on gravel, or on mud), change all 4 tires, throw them in and out of the Deuce, loosen and torque 20 lug-nuts 4 different times....

Ugh....I think I would consider selling the Bronco before I had to do all of that.

And that still doesn't solve the issue of me breaking an axle, a hub, spider gears, or the R&P...couldn't flat-tow it back if that happens...

Thanks for the suggestions however ;-)
 

Blythewoodjoe

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You are right about not wanting to flat tow. The trailer will move your Bronco no matter what goes wrong. A few years ago I bought a tow bar and planned to flat tow deuces when I bought them. I tried it one time and realized I never wanted to try that again. As long as I have a trailer, I would never consider trying to tow something that is not perfectly road worthy. My jeep Wrangler was a good street ride and I used it to drop off cars at the shop or anything like that. I would pull it down the road so I didn't need a second driver to drop the other vehicle off. I sold it last year and I have missed that conveniance.

Before you buy a trailer I would suggest trying to find something surplus that might work for your needs. Since your bronco has lots of clearance you might be able to get something usefull and cheap that a regular car wouldn't fit on. For a couple hundred bucks you could get a shelter dolly and an old 5 ton bed and make a heck of a wagon. It wouldn't back up too well though.

Good luck,
Joe Trapp
 

ATC

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There is a nice 8'x12' 3½ ton military trailer in the classifides right now. Air brakes too. I guess I should concentrate on getting the truck first...;-)
 

rmgill

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Wrestling with (4) 150+lb tires that are covered in mud twice a day doesn't sound fun. Especially lifting them onto the Deuce's bed. I'd have to wrestle around a jack (in a field, or on gravel, or on mud), change all 4 tires, throw them in and out of the Deuce, loosen and torque 20 lug-nuts 4 different times....

Ugh....I think I would consider selling the Bronco before I had to do all of that.

And that still doesn't solve the issue of me breaking an axle, a hub, spider gears, or the R&P...couldn't flat-tow it back if that happens...

Thanks for the suggestions however ;-)
I re-enact and tow a 3 ton british scout car to events. That's a MUCH heavier load and it is harder to find parts for so, yeah, I agree. Tow it on a trailer of appropriate size. Havinga way to recover a 4x4 that's got problems is nice when you can just get it near the trailer somehow, drag it up on the bed with a winch, chain it down and worry about the broken stuff once you get home and can address it a leasure.
 
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