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Thread: MEP-003A hook up question

  1. #61
    Private tm050712's Avatar
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    Gotcha! Thanks again. Will connection to L-0 accomplish the same thing for the ground?

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    4 Star General acesneights1's Avatar
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    This is a very good Thread and I suspect will help alot of people in the future in hooking any kind of genset.
    I vote to Sticky it...Any seconds ?

  3. #63
    2 Star General steelypip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tm050712 View Post
    Gotcha! Thanks again. Will connection to L-0 accomplish the same thing for the ground?
    If you're using a non-separately derived system (see Speddmon's post #25 and #32 (with the very helpful pictures)), then you need to break the connection between L[whatever] - the neutral connection point on the gen head windings and the frame ground and connect the frame ground to your meter box/load center ground rod. This is why residential generator connection cable is always four-wire: two for the hot legs, one for the neutral and one for ground.

    Simply put:

    If you're grounding neutral at the house (non separately derived system) then you disconnect the neutral leg from frame ground on the generator, hook frame ground to house ground and generator neutral to house neutral, and switch the hot legs between utility power and the generator as needed with your transfer switch or interlock kit.

    If you're grounding neutral at the generator (separately derived system) then you have to switch neutral conductors along with hot conductors in your transfer switch and you ground neutral at the generator to a driven ground rod at the generator.

    Almost all residential backup generator installations are non separately derived systems. The military generally doesn't have utility power in the picture when using a generator, so they don't have to worry about there being more than one ground rod or multiple neutral connection points. That's what causes the confusion when using a military generator for utility backup power.

    The take-away:

    1. If you have more than one connection between grounding rods and the house neutral wire at any time, you're doing it wrong.
    2. If you have zero connections between house neutral wire and grounding rod at any time, you're doing it wrong.
    3. If the generator housing and frame are ungrounded at any time, you're doing it wrong.


    Any of the above cases can result in equipment damage, injury, or death (and not necessarily in that order).
    "Not far from here, by a white sun, behind a green star, lived the Steelypips, illustrious, industrious, and they hadnít a care: no spats in their vats, no rules, no schools, no gloom, no evil influence of the moon, no trouble from matter or antimatter Ė for they had a machine, a dream of a machine, with springs and gears and perfect in every respect." - Stanislaw Lem

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  5. #64
    Colonel bsorcs's Avatar
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    Outstanding thread. I actually understood most of it! Seems to be reference material to me.
    bs

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    General cucv1833's Avatar
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    Great thread!! So I'm installing a transfer switch soon just want to double confirm

    Here's the description.
    GE Outdoor rated 200 Amp boxed Transfer Switch; 2 Pole with Neutral
    *2 Pole Double Throw Switch with a Third non Switching Neutral Pole.
    includes 2 Inputs (1 for Utility, 1 for a Generator) and 1 Output (to your Ppanel)

    It looks like a NON SDS. So I should disconnect the neutral at the generator ground and bring L1-L3 to hot and L0 to neutral and ground to the ground lug all in the transfer panel correct? A 4 wire system. Just like a civy generator

    My champion 7-9kw has a floating neutral on the generator for the panel or stand alone.

  7. #66
    4 Star General 212sparky's Avatar
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    That is correct. Make sure you have the frame of the gen set grounded. If you are using aluminum wiring use a no oxide compound. It is also good practice to use it on copper that is out doors as well.
    Rob Edwards



    1971 M35A2C W/W
    1985 MEP-004a with M200a1

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    In general you always want to use stranded copper when connecting to generators, motors, etc. due to vibration, MTW (Machine Tool Wire) rated wire is best, as it has finer strands than regular stranded and holds up to vibration better, SO (SOOW,SOEW, SJOW, etc.) cord is another good choice. It sounds like you have it right, (bond neutral to ground at service entrance only, unbond L0 from the frame) for safety it is best to drive a separate ground rod for the generator frame, that way if you have in internal short the frame will not be live, this is not as much of a concern on residential generators, but these MEP's do have control panels on them so people are much more likely to touch them while they are running.

    Ike

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  11. #68
    4 Star General 212sparky's Avatar
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    Your grounding conductor will keep the frame grounded and drain short circut current. the finer the strand the more flexible and more current the cable will carry. Inspect your cabling before each use for dammage as well.
    Rob Edwards



    1971 M35A2C W/W
    1985 MEP-004a with M200a1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    unbond L0 from the frame) for safety it is best to drive a separate ground rod for the generator frame, that way if you have in internal short the frame will not be live, this is not as much of a concern on residential generators, but these MEP's do have control panels on them so people are much more likely to touch them while they are running.

    Ike
    So it is ok to ground frame as well in a non SDS system? This seems different advice again.

    I am back feeding (in power outage mode w Interlockkit) to panel though old 3 pronged range plug I use for my welder, so this is a Non SDS system. Have run it w frame still bonded to neutral and it seemed OK, but understand I should un bond gen frame from LO. Do have a generator ground rod in place. Sounds like I should have a 4 pinned plug. Am confused about ground rod now.
    Last edited by Speddmon; 09-08-2012 at 22:33.

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    Been thinking about this last post of mine and understand why no one wants to answer it (besides the dead horse thing). Anyway, I want to thank all of the folks who post here and know electrical theory and code.

    All of us getting great advice from this forum should realize that no one can tell you if your rig and hook up is safe without looking at it and testing it. What we are getting is free advice and is usually worth more than that.

    Anyone who is buying and using these generators should get help from real electrician if they are not sure of what they are dealing with when hooking to grid. Even if they are a good mechanic. ( I have been doing stupid things for years and am now an expert at it. ) Anyway, am having an electrician come over to check my set up out.

    I may continue to ask 'uninformed' questions. I did have an electrician come by, his help kept me from miswireing a couple breakers when I moved them for the Interlockkit. (separate circuits w common neutral have to be on alternating breakers in panel) Glad I called him.
    Last edited by dependable; 09-16-2012 at 19:21. Reason: update

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