CDL

Hello out there,

I am new to the hobby but very interested. Is a CDL required for all of the heavier stuff such as the 5 tons?

Thanks,

Jim

BigSkyCountry,

The weight oft quoted around here is 26,001 lbs as the start of the CDL weight requirement. Most of the bigger trucks have hydraulic brakes ASSISTED by air, not pure air brakes, which also helps keep us out of the CDL territory.

Don't forget to add your general location to your signature so we can come by and borrow your tools/gawk at the big green thing that will land in your driveway/come by and help you out.

I didn't know that weight had anything to do with it. What does CDL stand for? If I go buy a semi and trailer to haul my stuff (@32k empty) and I put my 2 20K trucks on it do I need a CDL?

It all depends on the state you are in...... Here in NY, up until last july I think it was.... you needed some sort of 'higher' licesne to drive over 18k.... They changed that to meet the federal guidelines.

I think what it really boils down to, is you may not need a CDL for over 26k, but a 'higher grade' license, to qualify you for driving the higher weights. Some states... the only option may be the CDL

Here in the sunshine state we don't need a CDL (Commercial Drivers License) if we are not exceeding 26,000 GVW. But the 3 axles ding us though so we need one for that. If you bobbed your Deuce then you're kewl.

Hello Guys,

My location is Billings, Montana. I am in a rush this morning, and will try to get it added to my profile.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim, it'll depend on your state's laws. If you're not driving the vehicle in connection with a commercial enterprise (ads on the side of a race trailer make it commercial) then you're not going to be considered commercial according to federal standards. However, state standards can be more complex. I'm working with my state legislature to pass a bill that'll clarify this. Currently, Ga's laws are a bit gray on this point and what is really needed to drive a 5 ton that's not used for business purposes.

Talk to multiple sources and look at the law. Sometimes the people charged with enforcing the law or issuing the licenses don't know what the law really is and will either misapply it or make it too broad or narrow.

Hey guys,

I appreciate all of the responses. I will check with the local laws and other sources. Another examply I heard in my area; which is a valid point; is all of the farmers with heavy trucks on the roads.

Will let you know what I find out. Again, thanks for all of the input to a newbie like myself.

Jim

PA requirments for a CDL is a vehicle that

A. Weighs 26,001 pounds or more
B. Tows a trailer that weighs in excess of 10,000
C. Carries 15 or more people, excluding the driver
D. Carries placarded cargo

That's the basic requirments, though I'm sure there are loopholes for historical vehicles or vehicles that are classified by the DMV as "Implements of husbandry or agriculture" (farm trucks) or construction equipment.

Curiously, nowhere in the regulations is it mentioned that one needs a CDL for air brake vehicles (Though you need to be able to demonstrate how to use an air brake to pass the CDL test) there is also no mention of number of powered axles, or total axles for that matter.

As always, check the law before you have to defend yourself from someone with a ticket book and too much free time

In Arizona, it depends on the truck..If it is licensed as a "Historic Vehicle", i.e 25 years or older, it is automatically exempt from ALL commercial requirements. DOT here recommends you carry complete copies of the state regulations if travelling out of state, although they have stated reciprocity exists under intergovernmental regulations both state and federal.

dg

Hey Guys,

Just thought I would let you know what I found out.

After checking the local laws, I realized that in Montana a CDL is not necessary. A CDL (commercial driver license class A, B or C) here focuses on exactly that...... Commercial vehicles. There are plenty of personal farm and big trucks here that are not commercial and thus you can get by with a standard licence. I have learned that each state is different, so you need to check your own regs.

Thanks for all the response and interest!

Jim

Rizzo,
You are good. As long as you are not using the vehicle for making money in any way you are OK with no CDL in MI.
Chuck

Sorry Chuck. I was asking a rhetorical question. Thanks for the reply though.

So thats how you get that M108 over 35mph. On the subject, each state has their own version of what is required it seems. In FL there are 4 different definitions in 4 different sections of the statutes that define CDL requirements. Seems that the only states that have figured this out are the ones where you can get a class A,B or C thats not commercial. I think that adoption in all states would help resolve the confusion. It also depends on who you ask. Our Commercial enfocement guys each have a different answer for the CDL question. Be prepared to justify your actions if you get stopped. For me toting around a semi trailer with a tractor, I wished I could get a non-com class A. In my humle opinion I rather not seek the CDL and justify myself to whoever stops me that why in the world would one need a commerial license for driving my hobby truck? Your mileage may vary.

You have got it right Kenny. If I had a truck bigger than the Deuce I would copy off the state law as it pertains to this to show to anyone that stops me. My commercial guy hear said as long as you are not engaged in commerce than you have no problem. That being said I have seen alot of people drive huge rental trucks like they were yugos and the run over stuff with the back wheels all the time. I know I have the skill needed but look out for the other guy who thinks the same but doesn't. I error on the side of caution and will not stop someone for a law that I haven't read. I do see other guys that just stop then try to figure it out. I always keep a copy of the MI motor vehicle code when I am working patrol. I agree with your statement of justifying your actions and that is why I would keep a copy of the law in the cab with me. One word of caution though, don't try to justify a lie. If someone is paying you to transport something then you are dealing in commerce and need a CDL for a larger truck or trailer combination. As a pilot I can have passengers pay for their share of the fuel without haveing to get a commercial license. When I take more than just the fuel costs I will be considered as engaging in a commercial operation. The law hear is not spelled out as precise as this but I would not consider a guy as engaging in commerce if he hauled something for fuel costs only.

That being said if I saw Rizzo with his rig the way it looks above without a business name and location on the door or cab I would stop him to investigate further. When he gave me his explaination I would send him on his way. I have seen some cabs marked "not for hire" but this really doesn't tell me the truck is not being used in a business capacity.

Rizzo,
Do you run that set up for yourself or do you use if for business use? If it was just for personal use I was wondering if you get stopped and checked out alot.

I have to ask. Whats the big deal with getting a CDL? I have one anyway for other trucks I drive and I think the state of Illinois would require one on a deuce and a five ton anyway. It does not cost that much more to renew and if you only drive local routes it does not require a physical. They are good for five years and if you keep your record clean they renew them just like any other license. The only way they look at them different is if you have endorsements on it like hazmat, then they have more requirements. But a regular combination (tractor-trailer) CDL with air brakes is no big deal and if you have that then you know the next time you have red lights flashing in your rearview there is not going to be any question about legal stuff regarding that little plastic card you are about to hand the officer, the only thing you will have to talk about is why he stopped you to begin with. And for those that drive through multiple states you will know that you are all good as well.

ida34 said:

Rizzo,
Do you run that set up for yourself or do you use if for business use? If it was just for personal use I was wondering if you get stopped and checked out alot.

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I don't use this alot. My ramps got stolen before the last bog last year, so I had to flat tow. this year my ramps got broken before the first bog. I had to flat tow again. I never see that many cops around when I'm doing that stuff. I know the motor carriers the ones I've talked to don't seem concerned. If you are concerned go talk to them. Ussually when you talk to those guys ahead of time they don't care too much.
I have orange triangles on the deuces adn I drive them around any way. I did see a cop when i was going to do a recovery a month ago. He was going the other way and didn't turn around. Most of the time I'm driving one I'm goint to a offroad site or taking my daughter for a ride on back roads. I plan on tellng the cops the truth and letting them do what they will.
When I get the wreckers going I will be putting antique plates on them. That will make it legal with no arguements and keep the township off my back as well.

Joe, if it were that easy to get a CDL here in FL I wuld just go get one. Unfortunatly its not. Testing is done by private schools and as such they want to train you before the test you. Considering I''m in law enforcement and have plenty of contacts, its still going to cost me a couple of grand for a commercial license and I have not a single thing commercial in use to drive. Even if I get popped for the license or endorsements, I'm pretty sure I have enough doucmentation to justify my case in front of the traffoc magistrate. Who knows, might even set some FL presidence via case law and get the confusion on the route to resolved. I'm still of the opinion that your attitude will take you wherever you point it. Know what you're doing, if you're not commercial, there's no way in heck they can make it look commercial. I still say the answer is the non-comm A, B and C licenses. Oh, I forgot, truck and trailer rental for the CDL too. They won't test me in my semi because it doesn't meet DOT requirements of a commercial vehicle, probably because it's not commercial. The whole thing, at least for me with a tractor/trailer, is a catch 22.

jrosbo said:

I have to ask. Whats the big deal with getting a CDL? I have one anyway for other trucks I drive and I think the state of Illinois would require one on a deuce and a five ton anyway. It does not cost that much more to renew and if you only drive local routes it does not require a physical.

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I'm not commercial. Therefore I should not have to get a commercial license for something that is not Commercial. In fact the FMCSRs specifically exclude the CDL requirement at the federal level (and by virtue of that that state comply by setting their laws thus) if you are not commercial. If you aren't commercial the feds don't want to bother you or be bothered with you.

They are good for five years and if you keep your record clean they renew them just like any other license. The only way they look at them different is if you have endorsements on it like hazmat, then they have more requirements. But a regular combination (tractor-trailer) CDL with air brakes is no big deal and if you have that then you know the next time you have red lights flashing in your rearview there is not going to be any question about legal stuff regarding that little plastic card you are about to hand the officer, the only thing you will have to talk about is why he stopped you to begin with. And for those that drive through multiple states you will know that you are all good as well.

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Well, if you're getting inspected you're going to be asked about log books, various permits and all sorts of other things they'd never ask Mom and Pop about in their motor home. When I'm on the road in my Deuce, I'm doing it for fun, not for a business. I should not have to deal with those issues, it's unfair and not equal treatment.

Most states seem to have the commercial/non-commercial boundaries set based on the type of vehicle which is not correct. Heres a few examples:

Civilian Tractor Trailer driven by an active duty soldier is NOT commercial.

Bus driven by police officer to go collect recruits and drive them to a function Commercial (and has to have a P endorsement!) [if it's not an emergency vehicle then it doesn't get excluded, even if it's used by the police department]

RV driven for a business venture - Commercial!

Tractor Trailer used to carry personal property or as a hobby vehicle, not used in connection with a business - NOT commercial.

The Key thing according to the feds is USE. Not equipment.

Now, some states are more strict than others, however, this can be tricky as the states may partially take what the Feds say correctly in their laws or may not. Your milage may vary.

Ryan,

Very Well Put!

This was an interesting question, but I am now confident enough to argue my case if the subject came up during a traffic stop.


Jim