What are your laws on Military vehicles?

Just wondered if there were any restrictions buying or owning Military Vehicles in the States? I know different States have different laws.

In the UK, we can more or less drive anything on a public highway, including Tracked Armour (Abbott 105 self propelled gun, 432 etc). All the wheeled armour can be driven over here, but there is a limit on tracked armour depending on what the weight is and how big it is, as our roads are quite small compared to yours.

In the UK, we have a vehicle safety check annually called the MOT (Ministry of Transport vehicle safety check). In the check, everything is checked by a certified mechanic and the vehicle is put on a rolling road for a brake check and also the engine emissions are checked, along with steering, engine, fuel, electrical systems etc.

But there are exemptions for different types of vehicle. For example, any vehicle that is over 7.5tons and was built before 1960 does not require this annual test. That is why nearly all M35A2’s in the UK are pre 1960, so that we don’t have to go through this test every year.

Also road tax has different rates. For a PLG (private light goods) vehicle (under 3.5tons) the road tax is £175 per year ($305.80 at today’s rate). This covers most of the normal cars that people own. But after 2001, the road tax varies in price depending on what engine emissions the vehicle puts out. Most, if not all SUV’s are now in the highest road tax band, which is £215 per year. But all vehicles that are built before 1972 do not have to pay any road tax. So if I buy a 1959 M35A2 it will be road tax exempt and also be MOT exempt. All I have to pay for is insurance, which for this vehicle is £80 per year fully comprehensive and unlimited mileage.

If I bought a truck that was built after 1960 I would need to get it tested every year and would also require a HGV licence (Heavy Goods Vehicle driving licence). As I am a Semi Truck Driver I already have an HGV class one licence, which would mean I would still be able to drive the truck. Do you have to take further tests in the States to enable you guys to drive your trucks?

Here in Indiana, things are pretty simple.
As far as wheeled vehicles, buy a license plate & drive it.
And actually, if it looks military you could probably get by without a license plate!
I don't know of any regulation of tracked vehicles.
Eric

Things in the US are less cut and dried. As a rule we're less taxed than you chaps are. For example, vehicle tax is based on ad valorem, which is some fraction of the vehicles value reduced for it's age. I have one vehicle that costs more than $4 for Ad Valorem and it's a 2001 honda. Every thing else even from the '80s and '70s is a few dollars. The Tag fee costs more than the tax ($20 per year for tag renewal plus ad valorem).

Road tests vary state to state, some states really only have an emissions tests, Georgia has it around the metro Atlanta area counties where I live. Tests for equipment, brakes, etc are nonexistent. If you get in an accident and you have failed brakes, expect some fines. Same thing for failed lamps and such. OTher states are more or less strict.

Licenses are another matter. Federally, the Commercial Motor Vehicles (HGVs to you chaps) are regulated by the states to a minimum standard specified by the Federal Government. States can be more strict, but must license vehicles per the Federal Government. My state is currently confused on how non-commercial trucks should be licensed so I'm going at them through my legislative body to get the laws cleared up. I did just get one law passed to allow us to drive with out a license plate displayed. I'll have to go around the legislative process again for the license issue.

Tracks are generally frowned upon as most folks don't realize that they don't actually damage the road if setup a certain way. Georgia doens't allow tracked vehicles even with rubber pads. Other states do. Perhaps I can get some half track owners together to get them to help me demonstrate to our State legislators.

rmgill said:

Things in the US are less cut and dried. As a rule we're less taxed than you chaps are. For example, vehicle tax is based on ad valorem, which is some fraction of the vehicles value reduced for it's age. I have one vehicle that costs more than $4 for Ad Valorem and it's a 2001 honda. Every thing else even from the '80s and '70s is a few dollars. The Tag fee costs more than the tax ($20 per year for tag renewal plus ad valorem).

Road tests vary state to state, some states really only have an emissions tests, Georgia has it around the metro Atlanta area counties where I live. Tests for equipment, brakes, etc are nonexistent. If you get in an accident and you have failed brakes, expect some fines. Same thing for failed lamps and such. OTher states are more or less strict.

Licenses are another matter. Federally, the Commercial Motor Vehicles (HGVs to you chaps) are regulated by the states to a minimum standard specified by the Federal Government. States can be more strict, but must license vehicles per the Federal Government. My state is currently confused on how non-commercial trucks should be licensed so I'm going at them through my legislative body to get the laws cleared up. I did just get one law passed to allow us to drive with out a license plate displayed. I'll have to go around the legislative process again for the license issue.

Tracks are generally frowned upon as most folks don't realize that they don't actually damage the road if setup a certain way. Georgia doens't allow tracked vehicles even with rubber pads. Other states do. Perhaps I can get some half track owners together to get them to help me demonstrate to our State legislators.

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Thanks for your answer Ryan.

I can tell you one thing that you know about, and that's the tax issue. We are taxed to death in the UK. It's a disgrace. Most of us over here would give our right arms to be able to move over to the US.

I can't believe that you don't have vehicle safety checks every year. The reason why everyone buys pre 1960 trucks here is because they are MOT exempt. The trouble with this test is that if your vehicle fails, then you are not allowed to drive it again until the defects that were found are rectified.

Here is a run down of the cost to run my 3 vehicles.

Toyota Hilux Surf SSRG

Insurance £333 per year
Road Tax £175 per year
MOT test £45 per year

Total cost to keep on the road each year (without repairs, fuel, etc,etc) is:£553 or $967.48

Defender TUM

Insurance £195 per year
Road Tax £175 per year
MOT test £45 per year

Total cost to keep on the road is £415 or $726.30

Series 3

Off the road, so I don't have to pay for tax or insurance. MOT only required if I put it back on the road. A MOT has to be carried out before I can do this.

Total cost = £968 or $1,694.61

Fuel cost's 0.95 pence per liter for Diesel and 0.91 pence per litre for petrol. (I hate using metric, I work in imperial, but everything is being changed so we are the same as Europe. Most people can't stand the Europeans here)

So a 50 litre fill of Diesel once a week costs me (13.21 US Gallons) £47.50 or $83.11. So my fuel bill to get me to work and back in a month is roughly $335

As you can see, we are taxed to death.



PS. You have a fantastic collection of British Army vehicles. They must have cost you some cash!!

M35A2 said:

I can tell you one thing that you know about, and that's the tax issue. We are taxed to death in the UK. It's a disgrace. Most of us over here would give our right arms to be able to move over to the US.

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Funny, I was just talking to Ian Hughes about this. He'd like to move to the US as well. I suggested they start a US office of their company and then he'd be set. "I hadn't thought of that..." was his response. Hopefully, we'll see a branch of their company over here at some point. It'd be nice to see someone that really know's thier stuff on Daimlers and Rootes group vehicles here.

I can't believe that you don't have vehicle safety checks every year. The reason why everyone buys pre 1960 trucks here is because they are MOT exempt. The trouble with this test is that if your vehicle fails, then you are not allowed to drive it again until the defects that were found are rectified.

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Well, we have an arm of law enforcement officers (LEO) federally and in each state that check trucks. States typically require an inspection periodically for the CMVs, or at least before they're registered. They'll also check them on the road and go over them. Some else on this forum noted however that the collector trucks tend to be better cared for and the DMV cops can usually look closely at a truck and tell if it's in good mechanical order at a glace or if it needs a closer look. I towed my Dingo on a beaver tail trailer up from Atlanta to Fort Indiantown gap just 2 weeks ago and the DMV cops that pulled me to the side did so to check the rig out, ostensibly for "gee, that's kinda cool!" purposes, but I suspect to give me a quick looksee over. They were nice the whole time and I'm sure their trained eyes were able to go over my trailer arrangements, spot check my tires and look for any other issues with say my load bindings and such. I did a quick walk around on the truck too and they were happy and cheeful the whole time. Even asked for pictures politely.

Here is a run down of the cost to run my 3 vehicles.
Total cost to keep on the road each year (without repairs, fuel, etc,etc) is:£553 or $967.48

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I paid about $200 last year for:
'60 Daimler Ferret ($3.87)
'42 Daimler Dingo ($1.55)
'76 Monte Carlo Muscle Car (400 cu in engine) ($1.55)
'72 M35A2 ($1.55)
'01 Honda Insight ($184 ad valorem, my most expensive)

Insurance is a bit more for me. I probably pay around $1200 a year for all my vehicles that are on the road. The Monte Carlo is currently not road legal (no insurance as I haven't driven it in a long time so I took it off the policy).

Fuel cost's 0.95 pence per liter for Diesel and 0.91 pence per litre for petrol. (I hate using metric, I work in imperial, but everything is being changed so we are the same as Europe. Most people can't stand the Europeans here)

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Kick the socialist out and you'd be better off I think. Less Labor, more Thatcher types.

PS. You have a fantastic collection of British Army vehicles. They must have cost you some cash!!

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They cost more here than they do over in Blighty, that's for sure. I wish I could get them for the cheap prices you lot have them over there. If I traveled over there more often, I'd have sold these, visited beltring, Jim Webster, Ian/Clive Hughes and Richard Farrant and bought things from them or through their friends for less and I'd have more of a collection.

I'm really jonesing for a Blitz Cabbed CMP from that Dutch fellow, for a Leyland Hippo and for a Morris CS8 or similar 8cwt truck. But, I have no place to put them at this point...sooo the collection stays the way it is for now.

Just as a side note, a lot if not most states in the US do require yearly state inspections for safety. Virginia is one of them and the Dodge Dealership I work at is a VA State Inspector. Just the usual items, safety equipment, tires, brakes, lights, etc. Some vehicles are old enough to be a "Antique" and are exempt from the inspections with the proper licensing and most military trucks can fall under this.

Pretty straight forward here on the west coast too. Smog pollution standards are a concern here with anything over 25 years old or diesel being exempt. Tracked vehicles, road cleats or not, are frowned upon because of road damage. Plus, there's the concerns of the Feds with ANY armored vehicles. "Just like firearms, if you have an armored vehicle, you must be up to no good." >Their thinking, not mine<. An interesting exemption we have out here for full auto weaps and armor is because of the movie industry; if you're a theatrical prop company you can own it.

Jones said:

Pretty straight forward here on the west coast too. Smog pollution standards are a concern here with anything over 25 years old or diesel being exempt. Tracked vehicles, road cleats or not, are frowned upon because of road damage. Plus, there's the concerns of the Feds with ANY armored vehicles. "Just like firearms, if you have an armored vehicle, you must be up to no good." >Their thinking, not mine<. An interesting exemption we have out here for full auto weaps and armor is because of the movie industry; if you're a theatrical prop company you can own it.

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This bloo*y goverment over here has banned nearly ALL types of weapons. The only things you can buy without a licence are air weapons (no more than 12lbs ft of pressure), de-activated weapons and blank firers. To own a shotgun you need a shotgun licence and a firearm needs a firearms licence (this is almost impossible). Handguns and semi/automatic weapons are banned.

They are talking about banning de-activated and blank firers also. But there is alot of people kicking up a fuss, because all of us Military vehicle and re-enactment clubs would be crippled with this as they are a central part of our hobby.

They banned Handguns after a shooting at a school where a madman shot all these kids. Trouble is, it hasn't made a blind bit of difference. As gun crime has gone through the roof, even with the ban.

Yeah, convoluted thinking on firearms. If a drunk driver kills a bunch with an automobile, nobody blames the car.

As they say here in the US, "When they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns."

Its getting better here though. Incrementally. Kansas just legislated Concealed Carry and overrode a veto of the state governor to do it. Look at the pretty blue sweeping the country. http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2006/03/time-to-modify-that-map-again.html

rmgill said:

Its getting better here though. Incrementally. Kansas just legislated Concealed Carry and overrode a veto of the state governor to do it. Look at the pretty blue sweeping the country. http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2006/03/time-to-modify-that-map-again.html

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URM..........??????

Hey guys, remember I'm from England!!

Does that mean that you can walk around with a 9mm and shoot anyone who tries to mug you?

I would have to dig through my records for exact costs, but I pay roughly $400 a year for Registration (For a Pennsylvania license plate) $250 or so for insurance and $20 twice a year for required semi-annual saftey inspection. Dave

Yes, I have the right to carry and use a handgun for self defense. But....... You will have to answer for your actions, and they had better be justified. You may still lose everything you have in court proving your case, and contrary to popular belief, you can be tried twice for the same "crime" in criminal and civil court just to make sure they make your life a living hell!

M35A2 said:

Hey guys, remember I'm from England!!

Does that mean that you can walk around with a 9mm and shoot anyone who tries to mug you?

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Ever read any A. Conan Doyle? When Holmes told Dr Watson to bring his revolver, it wasn't for target practice. So, you chaps do in fact have a history of just this exact sort of thing under Queen Victoria. Its not so strange, just forgotten. But it was a fairly normal thing for a gentleman to be armed in the UK in places like London when there was some concern of crime to be dealt with. Webley and other companies didn't just make revolvers for the military you know.

But, more or less, yes, I can go about my normal business around my state and several other states (we're still getting all the states to recognize other states CCW licenses) while armed and defend myself if attacked or if I witness a bad crime in progress. Different state have slightly different laws. Some allow you to only defend you and yours, others allow you to intervene in a violent crime (Like Georgia).

So, in my state of Georgia, if I see a man dragging a woman out of a car I'd be perfectly justified in shooting him or by being nice and yelling at him to stop doing what he's doing if I'm not sure. The burdon of proof is on my to amply demonstrate to the police or at worst a jury that I was in fact in fear of her life (in this instance).

While it might sound like a counter intuitive solution to crime, the key thing is that only law abiding citizens can get these kind of permits (background checks are involved) and the effect is that criminals don't know who among their potential victims are armed. And more over, it places victims that are armed on even footing with their criminals in terms of force levels and the criminals very much dislike a fair fight. 99% of the time, when confronted with a victim that's fighting back armed, they turn tail and run.

Again, I must stress that going at someone with a firearm is still very much frowned upon. If you do get into a gunfight you better damn well have a good reason and it's certainly not a writ to go around enforcing your will upon others. However the advantage of the system we have is that if you deal with police and you are a CCW permit holder, once they're appraised of that status they're often far more amiable with you because they know you've been through the same kind of background check system they go through for their employment as police.

Gatnom said:

Yes, I have the right to carry and use a handgun for self defense. But....... You will have to answer for your actions, and they had better be justified. You may still lose everything you have in court proving your case, and contrary to popular belief, you can be tried twice for the same "crime" in criminal and civil court just to make sure they make your life a living hell!

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This is why it pays to live in a state where you're less likely to get raked over the coals. More often than not down here when I hear of citizens defending themselves with deadly force the closing line of the article is usually "...police do not expect to file charges against the man." Most often, once the dust settles and the cops figure out what's up, they're thankful they have a rattled and jumpy citizens thats alive and a perp that's bleeding and dead or bleeding and about to stop at the hospital on his way to the jail.

For informational purposes, up here in NH, one needs a permit to carry concealed, but if your pair of six-shooters is visible you can walk down main street with no hassle. Neighboring Mass., on the other hand, has very restrictive gun laws. My other neighboring state Vermont has no such laws. You can do as you please as far as carrying weapons until you screw up, and then they tell you what you can't do. I believe VT. is the only state in the union that has no carry laws. I believe Maine has similar regulations to NH.

Check that map. Alaska recently passed law to allow you to carry concealed without a license (kind of makes a hell of a lot of sense out away from most heavily inhabited places which are what, two cities in the entire state?). If you wish to obtain a license for reciprocity purposes with other states you can get one as well.

Florida FINALLY got smart on CC and self defense... Laws changed back in Oct 05 to protect the person whom is defending him or her self. The castle law as its known has been in effect for as long as I can remember which basically says you may shoot the snot out of anyone in your home no questions asked because invasion is showing intent to cause harm. They basically extended that law in Oct 05 to the streets. You no longer have to back down or away from a threat, your immune to civil suit and your protected by the law rather than abused and put through hell... Its a odd move for today's political climate but it shows there is a small sputter of common sense to be found now and then.

Granted these things always sound great until you find yourself in a situation... Two months ago a co worker shot a guy 6 times while on public property. He was at work the next morning 12 hours later clear and free. Its pretty awesome to see something working for the good guys for a change.

Oh yeah.... vehicle tags... lol... No inspections, no special license, no special tags... 48$ a year for a tag, 176$ for insurance...

Where it goes wrong is the case of a fellow I know in Philly. He was confronted by a homeless guy he told to go to the end of the line when the fellow tried to cut in line in the store. Outside the homeless guy confronted him with a knife, Tom cleared his holster and told the guy to buzz off. Homeless knife guy backed off and then went and called the cops. Cops believed the homeless knife wielding guy because of political pressure and then tried to rake Tom over the coals. Even tried to charge him with not having the permit that they confiscated along with his guns AND sent him a certified letter demanding that he turn in the permit. Eventually the charges were dropped in part by the DA's office (they realized the mistake on the No Permit charge) or were dismissed by the Judge after the city jerked him around 3 times for court dates and couldn't produce a witness, homeless knife guy who was apparently on the final slide down into crack smoking heck. Tom is still fighting them to get his guns back that they confiscated. And he's beating them with state law that says they have to return the guns and they'll have to pay for his court costs he expends in order to get them back.