1/2 track deuce

For some reason doghead decided to delete the original thread started by panzerjunky this morning.
Anyway, I'll start it over with a note I wanted to add (along with the images that were rather interesting).
The add-on track goes back to a 1955 TM, the TM 9-1870-1.

What was that thing used for ?

hedelta said:

What was that thing used for ?

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Also lost in the original thread...Midgetman Missile Launcher

As explained by NMC_EXP:
I worked in R&D at Caterpillar for 30 yrs. We developed and fielded the rubber tracks used on the Challenger Ag tractors and combines.

Back in the mid 80"s CAT put rubber tracks on 5 ton trucks and cargo trailers for the DoD. DoD was looking for better flotation in sand as I recall. The CAT rubber tracks could be used on anything with a tandem axle.

CAT along with Martin Marietta built a test bed vehicle for the Midgetman Mobile Missile Launcher test program. The tractor and launcher trailer both were on rubber tracks. It was capable of 70 mph on pavement with a GVW of about 250K lbs. The engine had propane injection so the crew could really haul a** if need be.

We lost out to the wheeled version submitted by Goodyear/Boeing. Didn't matter - the Mobile launcher project was scrapped by the START treaty.

Last I heard the rig was slowly sinking into the sand in Cali somewhere.

My dad drove a deuce in Korea and I remember him mentioning tire chains that wrapped both sets of duels on each axle, kinda making the deuce a half track. Has anyone else ever heard of such a thing?

I'll resupply my deleted info regarding the Caterpillar/Martin Marietta Highly Mobile Missile (HML) DoD test vehicle and 5 ton truck halftracks.

HIGHLY MOBILE MISSILE LAUNCHER:

Caterpillar developed rubber tracks which were used on the CAT Challenger ag tractors and combines. In the early (?) 80's CAT teamed up with Martin Marietta to create the "Midgetman" ICBM mobile launcher test vehicle (the white vehicle pictured above). We competed against the Goodyear/Boeing (?) vehicle in the trials. The rubber tired Goodyear/Boeing vehicle won the contract. It is the camo painted unit shown above.

The specifications included a requirement that when fully loaded the vehicle be capable of 60 mph on pavement. Does not sound like much until you consider that the tractor/trailer with missile grossed at nearly 250,000 lbs.

As I recall, the CAT HML actually ran close to 70 mph on pavement. The HML concept was based on the concern that Soviet warheads were accurate enough to destroy fixed missile silos. So these mobile launchers would be moved from place to place making them difficult to target.

I did some rubber compounding work on the rubber tracks but was not involved in the design of the tracks themselves. THe CAT ag tractors were low speed. The thought of running these tracks at 60 mph caused some concern as in would they fly apart. To test for this CAT regeared a motor grader to run 60 mph, installed a set of rubber tracks on it and found a fool willing to drive a motorgrader at 60 mph. It worked and the rest became history when the HML project was scrapped due to the START treaty.

RUBBER HALFTRACKS:

The DoD asked CAT to equip 5T cargo trucks and tandem axle cargo trailers with rubber tracks to improve floation in soft conditions. I recall seeing the trucks and trailers at our development facility. I was transferred out of state and lost track of the situation. This was apparently another dead end.

I refer to them as rubber tracks but they are built with several layers of steel cable surrounded by rubber much like a steel radial tire.

They operated via friction drive between the vehicle drive tires and the inner surface of the track. Therefore some method of providing constant tension between the drive axle and the track had to be incorporated into the design. So long as this was done CAT rubber tracks could be retroifitted on any vehicle with a tandem axle.

NMC_EXP said:

.....
I did some rubber compounding work on the rubber tracks but was not involved in the design of the tracks themselves...

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Perhaps you can answer a question for me; I understand that the "OZ" marking on rubber items indicates that they are ozone resistant, is this an expensive ingredient and does the military require more of it than would be found in a similar civilian application?
I visited a tire recapping plant some time ago and I was told that when they recapped military tires (NDCCs), they had to add extra chemicals to the mix.

cranetruck said:

Perhaps you can answer a question for me; I understand that the "OZ" marking on rubber items indicates that they are ozone resistant, is this an expensive ingredient and does the military require more of it than would be found in a similar civilian application?
I visited a tire recapping plant some time ago and I was told that when they recapped military tires (NDCCs), they had to add extra chemicals to the mix.

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I am not familar with the "OZ" marking. At Caterpillar we manufactured a lot of specialized rubber parts and none were marked this way.

Ozone, along with oxygen and ultraviolet light degrade and eventually destroy most types of ruber over time. Rubber formulations ("recipes") contain chemicals designed to slow down this degradation.

These anti-oxidants / anti-ozonants slowly bleed to the surface of the rubber part and form a film or barrier. The oxygen and ozone attack the chemical barrier rather than the rubber under it. It is a sacrifical layer and must be replenished to work over time.

If it is a dynamic rubber part like a tire or engine mount, when the vehicle is operated, the rubber is flexed, it warms up and more chemical bleeds out to to surface of the rubber. If the vehicle is parked for a long time, the sacrifical barrier is used up, but not replenished. This is what causes tires to "dry-rot".
It shows up as cracks in the sidewall and between the tread bars.

The anti-oxidant/anti-ozonant chemicals are expensive so a minimum amount is added. Because the military expects vehicles to sit a lot, the DoD may specify a higher percentage of these chemicals be added.

During the recession of the early 80's CAT sales were low and some vehicles sat for 2 - 3 years before being sold. CAT had to replace millions of dollars worth of tires due to "dry-rot" before the machines could be sold.

March 7th, 2010.

The first illustration in Cranetruck's OP above, nicely illustrates what was called during WWII the "Watson Traction Device" for the CCKW family of trucks, and it was devised to allow the 6X6's to function in sand, snow or mud without sinking and to enhance traction. Form myself, I'd love to find a set for the M35A2, as the stock NDCC's, particularly when worn (out), do not do well in East Texas mud, and lately we've got lots of East Texas Mud!!! Even a Unimog with German Army Uniroyals and locked differentials is right on the edge of getting stuck in this stuff.......!
Perhaps GL is just sitting on a warehouse full of these little beasties????
What's old is new again!!!!!!

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

Thanks for that info, NMC!
Examples of the "OZ" marking below. My Goodyear tires on this truck are 30 years old (datecode "080", 8th week of 1980) and show very little ozone cracking.

Thai was the point of my Post was or is there anything there or would an application like that be doable pr at all practical. were the 1950 ones made of rubber or steel with rubber track pads. Does anyone have any better more detailed photos.
Thanks Jerry

cranetruck -

Check the attached link to T-pub re: tire markings. It states that the OZ mark is for "Ozone Resistant".

Might be a DoD rather than commercial requirement.

I've learned something today - thanks.

TIRE MARKINGS AND CODES (Con't).

Your 1980 tires look great. I'd bet the DoD specified the use of large amounts of anti-oxidants/ozonants for tires.

UV light is real hard on tire rubber too. If you can store the vehicle indoors or cover the tires with something opaque. Might also consider using Miller's Tire Paint. It is black so it'll block most light and O2/O3 from reaching the tire.

Repairs/Supplies

Regards

Jim

about the tyr-trac add on to basically turn the deuce into a half-track I found this link Traction Aid for Wheeled Vehicles. which basically claims that the military testing found the tyr-trac system to be of no use in snow over 20" deep, equal to snow chains in snow 12-17" deep and worse than snow chains in anything less than 12". Plus given the huge difference in bulk for storage, and ease of installation the report recommended snow chains...

mactiredearg said:

about the tyr-trac add on to basically turn the deuce into a half-track I found this link Traction Aid for Wheeled Vehicles. which basically claims that the military testing found the tyr-trac system to be of no use in snow over 20" deep, equal to snow chains in snow 12-17" deep and worse than snow chains in anything less than 12". Plus given the huge difference in bulk for storage, and ease of installation the report recommended snow chains...

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The front tires must be a huge limitation here. Don't know the weight distribution on a halftrack, but the deuce has as much load on the front as on the rear bogie when empty...kind of like swimming an empty cargo truck (m656).

Hey Bjorn,
Are those tracks for a set of duals peeking out of the container on the lower right?
Looks like they have several sets if you want another project.

Hey Leonard, don't need another project. My 8x8 to-do list has close to 100 items on it at the moment, little stuff, but still.
My current MV budget is almost non-existent and the 6x6 needs a lot of maintenance also...

I have thought about using a couple of sets of bobcat tracks to put on the deuce. I would use the steel type though instead of rubber.

what are these tracks?

I was told that these were for a 2.5 ton. The gentleman said that he has used them and I have no reason to doubt him. He runs a seeding company and said that he used these in swampy areas. And a picture of a ZOMBIE that was loitering in front of my house last night.

those are pretty cool! I dont really have a need for tracks, but then again, i dont really have a need for a deuce other than a toy! still think it would be awesome to have! Are those track setups common at all? Given the geometry of our suspensions, i wonder how they would do off road. it wouldnt seem like they would like articulation much. who knows....never know until you try!

bigugh20 FYI those tracks are for the M114 family of APC's. It might be possible to rap them around the tandems of a M35 but they would be heavy and they look to be in good condition.

Bigugh,

If that guy used them on a deuce, that means that fit (well kinda). respectfully saying, they may have worked, but do you know if that center part of the track fits between the duals? How wide are they?? do they ever surplus these tracks? maybe one side would be long enough for both sides of a deuce? I'm a little excited about this idea if it worked, it would open new doors for the capability of the deuce. plus being that the flex part is rubber. it would be more forgiving to articulation. This idea of a half track deuce has me about as anxious as a nun in a cucumber patch!