Questions about register M35 in VA

Redneckbmxer24 · Mar 11, 2011

I've wanted a Deuce and a half for a while not and finally found one in pretty good shape that needs batteries and fluids changed for $4200 somewhat locally.

My question is how on earth to I register, inspect, and insure this thing? I google searched but didn't find any answers pertaining to my state. I'm aware you can easily register it as a antique in VA but your only supposed to drive ti to and from car shows and I'd like to be able to drive it anywhere I want. It will basically just be a pleasure vehicle.

So how do I go about registering it in VA? Are there any additional fees I'll have to pay that you wouldn't with a normal car? Any special license required?

Thanks in Advance!

Ruppster · Mar 11, 2011

First off welcome to SS. Always nice to see a new member join in on the fun.

Virginia is pretty cool when it comes to the type of driver's license required to drive a big truck. They follow federal guidelines, you can drive any size truck with a regular license as long as you are hauling your own stuff and not in commerce. As far as tags if you want regular unrestricted tags then they will ask you for something called GVW (gross vehicle weight). This will be the total weight you want, truck weight plus the weight of any load you might want to carry. GVW is not the same as GVWR. GVW is what you want the registered weight to be and can be higher or lower then the truck's GVWR. So if they ask you for GVWR when getting tags make sure they don't mean GVW. Plus the higher you set the GVW the higher the cost of the tags. That's why so many people take advantage of the antique tags as they are so much cheaper. And what ever you set your GVW at do not get caught at the scales in excess of that amount as they will hit you with a fine for that too.

IIRC in VA any truck, personal or commercial, over 10,000 pounds must stop at the scales. Even if you're empty (unless you're driving a commercial wrecker).

If you plan on driving out of state you might want to research IFTA (International Fuel Tax Agreement) and IRP (International Registration Plan) trip permits. Some states will ticket you if you don't have the permits due to the tandem axles on a 6x6. I received a $600 ticket from NC the first time I drove out of VA with my semi truck. If the truck will never leave VA then IFTA and IRP do not apply and can be ignored.

Ruppster

Redneckbmxer24 · Mar 11, 2011

Thanks for the welcome and the quick reply. What is a good GVW to tell them? I'm pretty sure anything over 26,001lbs in VA you have to have a CDL for so I guess I would want to keep it at 26K. What do the trucks with winch, troop carrier, and top typically weigh full of fuel?

Really the only thing I would be carry is a bunch of guns and ammo in the back but that would probably never weigh any more than 300lbs. Having a auxillary fuel tank in the bed also wouldn't be a bad idea.

Most likely the truck would never leave VA, I may cruise it up to hot rod weekend in MD but that would be the only time. I'll look into whether or not MD will ticket me.

I found an even better deal closer too. I found a guy that has 8 winch M35A3's and 3 non winch's. The winch ones are $3500 + $500 for title + $500 for the troop carrier and roof. He's also only 30 miles away in Annapolis instead of 2 hours away in Deleware so I think I'm going to go this route. I'm going to go there in the morning to check them out and put a deposit on one.

If I buy one in MD, get the title work done and get tags do you think I will have any issues with the IFTA stuff driving it back to VA? He said he's only 20 miles across the state line which should be about 30 miles total from me. If nothing else my uncle has a gooseneck rated to tow 25K he uses for his backhoe and I could probably get him to tow it for me.

Redneckbmxer24 · Mar 11, 2011

Also any idea how much I can expect to pay per year for the tags if its registered at 26000LBS GVW?

andybritt2002 · Mar 11, 2011

are you going to be hauling anything in this or just having fun? I registered mine antique cost me like $110 out the door and seeya later goodbye. no more renewals or inspections or personal property tax. you most likely will get a personal property tax bill when the time comes, just call them up and say NO and they will exempt you. VA law states antique vehicles are exempt from taxation. They get the notification that you registered a new vehicle but im not sure they know if its antique or not. (makes me wonder how many people with antiques get the bill and actually pay it.) limitations are cant be more than 300 miles from your "home base" which is the address on your drivers license. you have to show proof of owning or have access to another motor vehicle for daily driving. you can drive for pleasure, to and from shows etc, and to get maintenance. If you register it with truck tags, personal property tax is going to eat you alive. Only time I reccomend it is if your making money using it as a truck or are using it for business type stuff. just my 2 cents

andybritt2002 · Mar 11, 2011

also my antique is registered 23k, I put 26 on the app when they got it but apparently they default it to something on their own

Ruppster · Mar 11, 2011

Redneckbmxer24 said:
Thanks for the welcome and the quick reply. What is a good GVW to tell them? I'm pretty sure anything over 26,001lbs in VA you have to have a CDL for so I guess I would want to keep it at 26K. What do the trucks with winch, troop carrier, and top typically weigh full of fuel?

Going by your stated use I would say you should be fine with 18,000 pounds as your GVW (truck with a full load of fuel should be between 13,000 and 14,000 pounds from what I understand). As far as CDL's VA exempts trucks used for personal stuff. The normal point for a CDL would be a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more. Since a deuce and a half has a GVWR less then 26,001 pounds then it is exempt anyhow.

Most likely the truck would never leave VA, I may cruise it up to hot rod weekend in MD but that would be the only time. I'll look into whether or not MD will ticket me.

If you do call MD look for either the IFTA office for MD or call the state DOT people and ask them if you would need a trip permit for a personal use vehicle. If they say no then keep a log of who you talked to and when the call took place (it may save your backside if you get stopped by a clueless Commercial LEO later on that wants to cite you for not having permits). If they say you have to have trip permits ask them to cite the statute or regulation that says you must have it. I have had a few states do this to me and when I forced them to go back in to their regs to cite the statute in question they found out I was exempt due to not being in commerce.

I found an even better deal closer too. I found a guy that has 8 winch M35A3's and 3 non winch's. The winch ones are $3500 + $500 for title + $500 for the troop carrier and roof. He's also only 30 miles away in Annapolis instead of 2 hours away in Deleware so I think I'm going to go this route. I'm going to go there in the morning to check them out and put a deposit on one.

Are you sure they're A3's? If so that's pretty cheap. The price sounds more like they are A2's. The trick with A3's is that they have a really nice auto tranny and if it fails can cost an arm and a leg to fix. A lot of people prefer the older A2's due to the cheaper multi-fuel engines and manual transmission.

If I buy one in MD, get the title work done and get tags do you think I will have any issues with the IFTA stuff driving it back to VA? He said he's only 20 miles across the state line which should be about 30 miles total from me. If nothing else my uncle has a gooseneck rated to tow 25K he uses for his backhoe and I could probably get him to tow it for me.

Are there any scales between his place and the VA border? If not then you should be fine. Plus I also found a link to the DMV website about a trip permit (used dogpile.com)

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/dmvnet/trip_permit/intro.asp

With a trip permit the commercial LEO's should leave you alone as you are bringing a new truck back to your home turf and have not put the truck in to the system yet.

Also any idea how much I can expect to pay per year for the tags if its registered at 26000LBS GVW?

VA DMV site has a page of fees but they do not list the rates for heavy trucks. So it looks like your best bet would be to call them directly.

Commonwealth of Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles

The catch with the fees when getting weighted tags is they group the weight in ranges (i.e. 12,000 to 13,999, 14,000 to 16,999, for example). So try to find out what the weight ranges are beforehand and go for the max number for that range as it won't cost you any more. When I went to get weighted tags for my semi truck in Florida I was going to get tags for 42,000 pounds. But when I found out the weight range I would have been priced at covered 40,000 to 43,999 pounds I wrote 43,999 pounds on the form as it was still the same price. So if you go for 18,000 pounds (as I mentioned above) see where that fits in to the ranges of weight.

If you have any other questions about weighted tags let me know.

Ruppster

Redneckbmxer24 · Mar 11, 2011

Andy it will mainly just be for having fun, sometimes with having fun comes a 4 wheeler or a bunch or guns but neither of those are really a load for a deuce and should be easily explained to a officer that I'm going out for a weekend of fun. Do you know approximately how much I could expect to pay for PP tax? I always thought it went by the value of the vehicle so it shouldn't be too much.

I may still just register it as a regular vehicle so I can drive it whenever I want without question. I drive a lifted 07 F250 now so I can only imagine how cool cruising around in a deuce is going to be.

I also had a member here PM me after he saw my post. He's local to me has one that is in good shape that he uses quite a bit with a winch and already titled in VA for the same as the place in MD plus I have the piece of mind knowing its a good running truck.

I can't wait to get one!

porkysplace · Mar 11, 2011

Ruppster said:
Are you sure they're A3's? If so that's pretty cheap. The price sounds more like they are A2's. The trick with A3's is that they have a really nice auto tranny and if it fails can cost an arm and a leg to fix. A lot of people prefer the older A2's due to the cheaper multi-fuel engines and manual transmission.

Ruppster

It kinda sounds like the dealer is decodeme2 .
If it is they are M35A2's for that price range.

Redneckbmxer24 · Mar 11, 2011

Ruppster said:
Going by your stated use I would say you should be fine with 18,000 pounds as your GVW (truck with a full load of fuel should be between 13,000 and 14,000 pounds from what I understand). As far as CDL's VA exempts trucks used for personal stuff. The normal point for a CDL would be a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more. Since a deuce and a half has a GVWR less then 26,001 pounds then it is exempt anyhow.

If you do call MD look for either the IFTA office for MD or call the state DOT people and ask them if you would need a trip permit for a personal use vehicle. If they say no then keep a log of who you talked to and when the call took place (it may save your backside if you get stopped by a clueless Commercial LEO later on that wants to cite you for not having permits). If they say you have to have trip permits ask them to cite the statute or regulation that says you must have it. I have had a few states do this to me and when I forced them to go back in to their regs to cite the statute in question they found out I was exempt due to not being in commerce.

Are you sure they're A3's? If so that's pretty cheap. The price sounds more like they are A2's. The trick with A3's is that they have a really nice auto tranny and if it fails can cost an arm and a leg to fix. A lot of people prefer the older A2's due to the cheaper multi-fuel engines and manual transmission.

Are there any scales between his place and the VA border? If not then you should be fine. Plus I also found a link to the DMV website about a trip permit (used dogpile.com)

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/dmvnet/trip_permit/intro.asp

With a trip permit the commercial LEO's should leave you alone as you are bringing a new truck back to your home turf and have not put the truck in to the system yet.

VA DMV site has a page of fees but they do not list the rates for heavy trucks. So it looks like your best bet would be to call them directly.

Commonwealth of Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles

The catch with the fees when getting weighted tags is they group the weight in ranges (i.e. 12,000 to 13,999, 14,000 to 16,999, for example). So try to find out what the weight ranges are beforehand and go for the max number for that range as it won't cost you any more. When I went to get weighted tags for my semi truck in Florida I was going to get tags for 42,000 pounds. But when I found out the weight range I would have been priced at covered 40,000 to 43,999 pounds I wrote 43,999 pounds on the form as it was still the same price. So if you go for 18,000 pounds (as I mentioned above) see where that fits in to the ranges of weight.

If you have any other questions about weighted tags let me know.

Ruppster

Thanks again for all the information. The ones he has for sale are supposedly A3's. The guy seemed shady though and when I asked him if I could leave a deposit for whichever truck I picked out that I liked and came back with the rest and to pick up the truck he said he wouldn't do that even though it would only be a week or so. He also didn't have the titles and said it would cost a extra $500 to get and it would take 5 weeks for him to get a title back.

A member out in Warrenton PMed me that he had one for sale I could come check out and drive thats exactly what I want and in good running condition. I'm going out tomorrow afternoon to meet him, and check out what will hopefully be my first deuce.

Once again thank you very much to you and Andy for your help. This is really a great community.

R Racing · Mar 11, 2011

I hate to burst your bubble there A2s not A3s He gets 8k and up for A3s.

andybritt2002 · Mar 11, 2011

Redneckbmxer24 said:
Andy it will mainly just be for having fun, sometimes with having fun comes a 4 wheeler or a bunch or guns but neither of those are really a load for a deuce and should be easily explained to a officer that I'm going out for a weekend of fun. Do you know approximately how much I could expect to pay for PP tax? I always thought it went by the value of the vehicle so it shouldn't be too much.

I may still just register it as a regular vehicle so I can drive it whenever I want without question. I drive a lifted 07 F250 now so I can only imagine how cool cruising around in a deuce is going to be.

I also had a member here PM me after he saw my post. He's local to me has one that is in good shape that he uses quite a bit with a winch and already titled in VA for the same as the place in MD plus I have the piece of mind knowing its a good running truck.

I can't wait to get one!

I forget what they were going to charge me but it was crazy high, and they valued the truck for 7k. Also virginia has the 65% tax break on personal propertty tax but states its for vehicles under 7500 gcvw if they press the issue on you. My buddy has a 07. 1ton ram and registered his 20,000 truck tags since hhe was getting messed with by local police for pulling a 30+ ft trailer. They pulled portable scales and everything. His personal property tax is$ 1000+. As long as your not towing heavy or look commercial you should be fine withh antique. I occasionally get a pallet or 2 of mulch or brick for my personal lawn and haven't had issue. You'll find most law enforcement has a certain respect for MVs as long as you look safe and aren't horsing around. As far as the a3s go its usually 8k for non winch and 10k with. I've never seen one go below 6500 on the ft meade auctions.

porkysplace · Mar 11, 2011

Who ever you buy from if they don't have a clean title in hand , don't give them any money as it could end up being a parts truck .

Redneckbmxer24 · Mar 11, 2011

R Racing said:
I hate to burst your bubble there A2s not A3s He gets 8k and up for A3s.

Ohh ok, I wasn't really sure, his add mentioned having A3's and when I called and talked to him he never said they weren't and said the winch models were $3500. Either way I'm not buying one from him anyway though, I didn't much care for his attitude about it, theres no reason he can't take a good deposit of my hard earned money and hold the truck for a week or two for me, especially since I would have to wait up to 5 weeks for him to get me a title.

andybritt2002 said:
I forget what they were going to charge me but it was crazy high, and they valued the truck for 7k. Also virginia has the 65% tax break on personal propertty tax but states its for vehicles under 7500 gcvw if they press the issue on you. My buddy has a 07. 1ton ram and registered his 20,000 truck tags since hhe was getting messed with by local police for pulling a 30+ ft trailer. They pulled portable scales and everything. His personal property tax is$ 1000+. As long as your not towing heavy or look commercial you should be fine withh antique. I occasionally get a pallet or 2 of mulch or brick for my personal lawn and haven't had issue. You'll find most law enforcement has a certain respect for MVs as long as you look safe and aren't horsing around. As far as the a3s go its usually 8k for non winch and 10k with. I've never seen one go below 6500 on the ft meade auctions.

I thought PP tax went by county? I know I registered all my vehicles at my farm in Warren County so I did have to pay Fairfax County's high tax rate. I'm going to look into both tag types a little more and make the ultimate decision when I go to DMV to register it to me.

porkysplace said:
Who ever you buy from if they don't have a clean title in hand , don't give them any money as it could end up being a parts truck .

Thanks, yeah this is another reason I don't feel very comfortable with buying from the guy in annapolis. He obviously won't trust me to leave my money with him and come back with the rest and to retrieve the truck (which doesn't make much sense) so I don't trust him to get me the title.

andybritt2002 · Mar 11, 2011

yeah its per city/county but from what I understand they are all comparable

R Racing · Mar 11, 2011

Well I had a SF97 and needed a MD title a few weeks back and only took me 4 days to have it in hand. Now only if my EUC's would clear that quick !! LOL

OldDominionIron · Mar 11, 2011

I've had my deuce registered in Virginia for over a year now. It's registered as an antique vehicle.

I can't use it as a daily driver, such as driving back and forth to work, but with my commute and the mileage a deuce gets, that's not an issue. Pleasure driving within 250 miles of your home is allowed. You must show proof that you own another vehicle to drive to work. I drive it to work every couple of months, but it isn't a daily driver. If I had to, I can produce a record of trips I've taken, PMCS performed (use the search function), fuel purchases, etc, to prove I don't drive it to work on a regular basis.

Since it's registered as an antique, no annual state inspection is required. You do have to sign a statement declaring the vehicle is in "sound mechanical condition."

Also, since it's an antique, you don't pay any annual personal property tax.

Antique plates are a one-time fee, with no annual renewal.

Go ahead and declare your gross vehicle weight as 23.030 lbs (or 23,530 if you have a winch). It doesn't increase the cost of registering the vehicle.

Because the vehicle weight is <26,001 lbs and doesn't have air brakes (a deuce has air assisted hydraulic brakes) you don't need a CDL, a normal license is enough.

I don't know why you have to pay extra for a title, when you buy the vehicle it gets signed over to you. If the seller doesn't have a clear title to the truck, and isn't a dealer, I would buy from someone else.

Redneckbmxer24 · Mar 12, 2011

Once again thanks a lot for the replies. I'm going to go ahead and register as antique mainly so I don't have to put all the lights and stuff on it cars are required to have to pass inspection.

I went out and test drove the one Mr.Ramsey is selling and I was in love before we even took it on the road. I got the run down of the truck and we went on what seemed a 30 mile road trip (seemed that long at deuce speeds atleast) and I got to drive the way back. It's hard for me to put into words how much fun I had, the last time I felt excitement like that was probably when I was 5 years old at chuckee cheese. Driving it was so awesome. I own a street car that runs low 10's in the 1/4 and will do well over 200MPH with a good stretch of road, have driven many exotics and other cars and by far this is the coolest thing I've ever driven. After driving it and looking at some other cool toys I shook Mr.Ramsey's hand and told him I'll buy it and I'm hoping to get the rest of the cash together to pick it up next weekend. It's big, loud, stinky, and rides rough as **** but I absolutely love it.

atankersdad · Mar 12, 2011

Welcome RNB24. It is an addictive hobby. You need to come up to MD and join us for breakfast on Saturday. We meet once a month in Eldersburg at Bob Evans. Md is pretty good with antique tags even if you are from VA. Stay away from NC. The must be more broke than our 2 states and are shaking down out of state MV guys like us.

micmccon · Mar 12, 2011

I'm inspired!

After reading about the Deuce and the difficulties and rewards that come from ownership, I have begun looking into getting one myself. I also live in Virginia and have found this discussion informative and helpful. Thanks all. I am new to SS and will probably be on here asking a whole bunch of really dumb rookie questions at some point (please bear with me). I've been warming up the wife to the idea for a while and hope I can find a good one that wont make me regret getting one. I am going with my brother to Dahlgren tomorrow to check out a deuce they call "Groucho" so I can familiarize myself with the things. I am suprised to see how many people around here have MV's and think it's great to have an excellent forum to share experiences, etc. I have a buddy in Lovettsville who has several deuces and I imagine I'll be giving Andy a call in the near future! :-D

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