• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

 

general aviation intercom with ham radio

baxter

New member
355
4
0
Location
salt lake, UT
Has anyone ever used a general aviaton intercom unit in conjunction with a mobile ham radio in the deuce. I ask because I like the idea of the intercom but then being able to use the radio also.

Vaughn
 

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I haven't actually used an aviation intercom in the deuce with radios but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I have however, designed and built my own intercom that's essentially the same as basic aviation and military intercoms for my deuce. Its great. I can actually talk to my passenger, listen to music, and I can talk out my military/ham radios. Being able to talk to somebody outside the deuce over a radio link is fantastic especially if you're in a convoy or if somebody is on the ground trying to talk to you.

I would imagine the only issues you'll have are the following.
1. Supply voltages, the aviation gear should be able to connect straight up to the deuce 24V system without issue. However, most commercial/ham radios are 12V deals.
2. Audio level matching, You might have to adjust the audio levels going between the intercom and radio to get everything working nicely. Having done this sort of integration many times before, I've never found it to be too bad. Usually it can be done by tweaking what ever knobs are already in the system.
 

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I forgot to add, I do use aviation headsets in my deuce and they work nicely. I've got a DC H10-30 headset and it works just as good as normal hearing protection plus its a nice headset. We also use other DC headsets at work for vehicle applications and they work nicely as well. The only problem I've had in the deuce is the extreme exhaust noise on the passenger side. The noise canceling mikes do great, but they simply can't overcome all of the noise on the passenger side, so you get a little bit of noise injection into the intercom system from the passenger side. However, its not that bad and the overall performance of the system is far better than going without and intercom.

I was also impressed with how much having an intercom lowers driver fatigue. Having hearing protection, talking to your passenger, and listening to music drastically lowers the mental stress level for me while driving.
 

baxter

New member
355
4
0
Location
salt lake, UT
Serial14 thanks for the reply great info. If you dont mind what intercom are you using and which ham radio. Do you have any pics you can share?
 

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
baxter,
I just looked, and as it turns out I don't have any pictures of my intercom actually installed in my truck. I might have to fix that. The pictures I do have are of detailed circuit boards, which doesn't seem to apply here.

The intercom I'm running is something I designed a built from scratch. The designed was influenced by my exposure to both Aviation audio/radio/intercom systems & military intercoms. It most closely matches the VIC3 in overall layout and function.

Overall I have several pieces spread through out the cab. Under the dash on the driver side( below the multi function electrical switch ) I put the driver interface box. Under the dash in front of the shifter is where I put the passenger interface box. Then behind the passenger seat I mounted my power supply module, radio module, and Music module. The modules are daisy chained together through the truck, like the military intercoms. Functionality wise, each crew box lets you select a channel, volume, and gives you a PTT input. The back end modules( music/radio ) also have channel selection and various tuning knobs. Overall, on a given channel you always have a hot mic intercom which mixes with all other incoming audio( people, music, radios ). When the PTT is keyed then the music is muted, and the attached radio is keyed and audio from the mic's are passed out the radio. I've got 4 channels so that you can split up various groups/functions within the system. Thus far though, I usually stick everything on the same channel and go from there.

Radio wise, I've used quite a bit of radios. I've connected SINCGARS military radios( PRC-119 & PRC-77 ) to it, and I've also connected some ham radios like the Yeasu FT50RD and some kenwood handhelds. I've got enough adjustment in my sytem that I can escentailly hook up to any radio with a U229 connector or the standard 2 plug headset connector found on most comercial radios.

Right now I'm trying to actually decide what sort of radio I actually want to mount in my truck. I'll probably go with a reprogrammed comercial radio that can do 70cm Ham radio, FRS, & GMRS. When I need other bands then I can just move some cables around and swap radios.

Like I said before, I've used a bunch of intercoms in alot of different applications and I love them. I highly suggest finding something that'll work for you and getting it installed in your truck.

Does this help? Or are you wondering about some other details? Gear? setup?
 

baxter

New member
355
4
0
Location
salt lake, UT
Wow you have put alot of thought into your setup and I really like what youve done. My brother is very good in the ham radio and electronics so Im gonna show him this thread and see what he thinks we can do. I love how you have the intercom and you can get music and the radio. This has me really thinking thank you. Im sure I will have some questions I hope you dont mind me asking as they come up.

Vaughn
 

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Vaugh,

No problem. I enjoy sharing. If you or your brother really wants to get into the nuts and bolts of it all( or perhaps in this case 1's & 0's ) then thats fine. If instead you want to chase after some prebuilt type gear I can certainly point you towards some stuff.
 

Flyingvan911

Well-known member
4,709
158
63
Location
Kansas City, MO
I bought a Flightcom 403 to use with my Icom 706MkII-G. I haven't hooked it up yet. The nice guys at the local ham shop looked at the diagrams for the Flightcom and 706 mic circuits and made their recommendations.
 

baxter

New member
355
4
0
Location
salt lake, UT
Serial thanks i will have some questions, I think I would prefer to stay with some prebuilt. Flyingvan I would like to hear how yours works when you get it hooked up keep us posted.
 

nk14zp

Active member
2,636
17
38
Location
Columbia Falls Maine
I forgot to add, I do use aviation headsets in my deuce and they work nicely. I've got a DC H10-30 headset and it works just as good as normal hearing protection plus its a nice headset. We also use other DC headsets at work for vehicle applications and they work nicely as well. The only problem I've had in the deuce is the extreme exhaust noise on the passenger side. The noise canceling mikes do great, but they simply can't overcome all of the noise on the passenger side, so you get a little bit of noise injection into the intercom system from the passenger side. However, its not that bad and the overall performance of the system is far better than going without and intercom.

I was also impressed with how much having an intercom lowers driver fatigue. Having hearing protection, talking to your passenger, and listening to music drastically lowers the mental stress level for me while driving.
Would you be willing to share your schematics with us?
 

deuceaid

Banned
915
149
0
Location
Yucaipa CA
LOVE this post!!!!
might I add that you could use a helicopter headset for the unlucky passenger next to the tail pipe!!!( better suited to low tone thumpy sounds!!):wink:
 

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Sorry for the delay. Life has been super busy, as I'm sure you can all sympathize with.

I don't see any reason I couldn't share my schematics with you all. I'm glad that there is this much interest in such a detailed/technical topic. I'll try and go through my designs tomorrow and post them to the thread. I know that I'll probably have to do a quick update on 2 drawings for a part swap I just did. Its an important one, since it solved a "bug" I had in the system for quite some time.
 

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
The Schematics!

Sorry for the delay. I also have to admit that what I'm about to share has errors, however if I don't push them out I'll forget.

Attached are PNG versions of the schematics. If you're interested in the Eagle PCB versions PM me.

Here is what each connector/circuit does.

Power:
This board supplies power to the other modules on a shared power bus. The OpAmps I use need a bipolar supply and so this produces +-9VDC for that. The input is wide so that it can be powered from a battery, 12V cars or 24V vehicles. I currently have this connected directly to power in my deuce.

JP1 is the input power, 9-30VDC.
JP2 is the regulated output power, +-9VDC.
The schematic basically hosts 2 DC-DC converters and some filter caps.

Station:
This is the board that goes at each user station. It interfaces a headset to the intercom audio bus.
JP1 is the audio bus
JP2 is the headphone jack
JP3 is the power
JP4 is the volume pot
JP5 is a jumper to support stereo headphones
JP6 is the mic input.

The OpAmp used is a highend one designed specifically for audio. I use a quad opamp pacakge to get everything I need. The two opamps directly on the audio bus(JP1) are basically buffer amps. The other two are gain amps for the headphones and mic. Finally, because I use a dynamic mic, I inject power to the mic through JP6 but block it using C3

Ipod:
This board lets me inject music onto the audio bus. Since my bus is only a single channel it also mixes stereo down to a single channel.

JP1 is the audio bus
JP2 is the power
JP3 is the audio input( stereo )
JP4 is the PTT signal.

The "a" opamp is the buffer amp, while "b" & "C" are the gain amps for the input. They are fixed gain since most music players have a volume control. They are designed to take normal listening audio from an iPod and amplify it to line level. Its important to note that the audio bus is designed to be line level. Thus the need for gain stages for all input & output connections.

The PTT signal is pulled high normally, and when its shorted to ground its in the "active" state. When PTT is keyed then the MOSFETs short the incoming music signal to ground, effectively muting the music while you talk out a radio. This is also the part where the schematic is wrong. Q2 is a N channel MOSFET which shorts the signal to ground. This works fine until the music signal goes below -0.7V at which point the intrinsic diode withing the MOSFET starts conducting which clamps the signal. The effect of this is really weird sounding music with a bunch of high frequency noise. It sounds like you're overdriving a component in the audio chain, which you kind of are. If your audio stays below +- 0.7V then everything sounds great. The fix for this was to get a solid state, bipolar switch from Analog Devices. This chip is specifically made to switch audio signals and includes zero crossing detection so that it only switches at the zero point. I replaced Q2 with this switch and use that to pull the signal to ground. Now I can have full volume range without any noise. Sadly, I never got around to updating my schematics and I'll have to go back and reverse engineer the thing to update them.

Radio:
This board interfaces a 2 way radio to the audio bus. Its primary job is to implement a PTT circuit, and match audio levels.

JP1 is the audio bus
JP2 is the PTT circuit for the radio.
JP3 is power
JP4 is the TX drive pot
JP5 is the TX signal TO the radio
JP6 is the RX signal FROM the radio
JP7 is the PTT input signal.

The opamps "D" & "A" take audio from the audio bus and push it to the radio. the pot on JP4 is used to set the audio level going to the radio. Typically in my setup this is connected to the radios mic port. As such, I usually have this level set pretty low. As I look at the schematic I just realized an improvement I could make. I should probably insert a block cap right before JP5 incase the radio is biasing the mic line with DC power.

The opamps "C" & "B" take audio from the radio and place it on the audio bus. The important thing to note here is that when PTT is keyed this audio path is muted. This is to stop the radio from creating a feed back loop. On miltary radios specifically when you transmit they play back MIC audio into the handset as a feedback to the operator that the radio is infact transmiting and working. If this feed back path was injected into the intercom again you'd get an unstable feed back loop created. So thats why the RX audio is muted when transmitting. I've never seen this behavior in commercial/ham radios, but since I have military radios I stuck the feature in. It has no effect on other radios. Again Q1 has the same problem as mentioned in the IPod section.

Finally Q3 shorts the radios PTT line to ground to tell the radio to transmit.

General:
As I mentioned in previous posts, my intercom system has 4 channels like military systems. However, all my schamtics only depict a single audio bus( JP1). Outside of this schematic is a rotary selector switch that selects a given intercom channel to feed to each board.

I have individual boards for each function so that my system becomes a distributed system. This then allows me to build/configure what ever I need to. however, all of this could be integrated on to a single board if a centralized system is desired.

Performance:
Once I found the bug on the mute circuits everything works great. I've had this running with several radios and used in my truck all the time and its awsome. The only compliant I have is more a factor of the environment than the intercom. The deuce is REALLY loud and the noise canceling mics on aviation headsets simply can't overcome it on their own. Especially who ever is in the passenger seat. But when the inside of your truck is at 120-130db its pretty hard to cancel that out. Potential ways to solve this in the intercom is to have adaptive filtering on the mic lines, or to not have the mics be hot mics. I've used vehicle intercoms before that you have to explicitly key to talk on the intercom channel and don't really like it. Though, there are certain situations and groups that use things like that. The other option is adaptive filtering which is what the latest military intercoms actually do. I haven't had the pleasure of using those systems yet but I hope I get a chance.


Hopefully this all makes sense, and the guys that wanted the schematics and figure it all out. As always, if you have questions/feedback let me know.
 

Attachments

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Well, As I look at what the site did to my pictures I see that they are fairly unusable. Again PM me if you want detailed versions.

Or if I'm just not figuring out how to properly attach files you can publicly correct em.
 

serial14

Member
101
11
18
Location
Albuquerque, NM
parts list

Here are the parts lists.

Station:
Mouser #: 571-1021282
Availability
13 Ships Now
$0.24 $3.12

Mouser #: 571-874995
Availability
3 Ships Now
$0.92 $2.76

Mouser #: 571-874993
Availability
2 Ships Now
$1.11 $2.22

Mouser #: 647-UVR1H221MPD
Availability
0 Ships Now
2 Backordered
$0.32 $0.64

Mouser #: 74-293D104X9035A2TE3
Availability
3 Ships Now
$0.67 $2.01

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTDD104J
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.08 $0.08

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTE103J
Availability
3 Ships Now
$0.05 $0.15

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTD334J
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.05 $0.05

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTD154J
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.05 $0.05

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTDD222J
Availability
1


Radio:
Mouser #: 571-1021282
Availability
15 Ships Now
$0.24 $3.60

Mouser #: 571-7874992
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.35 $0.35

Mouser #: 571-874995
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.92 $1.84

Mouser #: 571-874993
Availability
4 Ships Now
$1.11 $4.44

Mouser #: 636-970-015-040R011
Availability
2 Ships Now
$6.63 $13.26

Mouser #: 156-1315T-E
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.85 $1.70

Mouser #: 156-1215T-E
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.78 $1.56

Mouser #: 313-1200F-100K
Availability
1 Ships Now
$2.16 $2.16

Mouser #: 156-1309
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.80 $0.80

Mouser #: 156-1209
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.77 $1.54

Mouser #: 105-SR2511F-25NS
Availability
1 Ships Now
$2.77 $2.77

Mouser #: 636-970-009-040R011
Availability
2 Ships Now
$5.57 $11.14

Mouser #: 647-UVR1H221MPD
Availability
0 Ships Now
2 Backordered
$0.32 $0.64

Mouser #: 512-2N3820
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.16 $0.16

Mouser #: 512-2N3819
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.11 $0.22

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTE103J
Availability
3 Ships Now
$0.05 $0.15

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTDD104J
Availability
3 Ships Now
$0.08 $0.24

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTDD473J
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.08 $0.08

Mouser #: 74-293D104X9035A2TE3
Availability
3 Ships Now

Ipod:
Mouser #: 571-1021282
Availability
9 Ships Now
$0.24 $2.16

Mouser #: 571-7874992
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.35 $0.35

Mouser #: 571-874995
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.92 $1.84

Mouser #: 571-874993
Availability
1 Ships Now
$1.11 $1.11

Mouser #: 105-SR2511F-25NS
Availability
1 Ships Now
$2.77 $2.77

Mouser #: 636-970-015-040R011
Availability
2 Ships Now
$6.63 $13.26

Mouser #: 161-3402-E
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.53 $0.53

Mouser #: 156-1315T-E
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.85 $1.70

Mouser #: 156-1215T-E
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.78 $1.56

Mouser #: 512-2N3820
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.16 $0.16

Mouser #: 512-2N3819
Availability
1 Ships Now
$0.11 $0.11

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTE103J
Availability
5 Ships Now
$0.05 $0.25

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTDD104J
Availability
4 Ships Now
$0.08 $0.32

Mouser #: 660-RK73B2BTTDD473J
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.08 $0.16

Mouser #: 74-293D104X9035A2TE3
Availability
4 Ships Now
$0.67 $2.68

Mouser #: 647-UVR1H221MPD
Availability
2

Pwr:
Mouser #: 571-1021282
Availability
6 Ships Now
$0.24 $1.44

Mouser #: 571-874995
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.92 $1.84

Mouser #: 156-1215T-E
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.78 $1.56

Mouser #: 156-1315T-E
Availability
2 Ships Now
$0.85 $1.70

Mouser #: 636-970-015-040R011
Availability
2 Ships Now
$6.63 $13.26

Mouser #: 647-UHE1H101MPD
Availability
0 Ships Now
4 Backordered
$0.29 $1.16

Mouser #: 80-C350C475K5R
Availability
2 Ships Now
$9.62 $19.24

Mouser #: 80-C340C225K5R5CA
Availability
1 Ships Now
$3.27 $3.27

Mouser #: 72-T63YB-10K
Availability
2

These parts are pretty much everything I used to build my stuff, connectors, switches, cases, etc. Some items are missing like the special sized connectors for aviation headsets. But you can see the bulk of it.
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks