Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 116

Thread: "Inventing" a "New Multi-Fuel Engine"

  1. #11
    Possum Connoisseur wreckerman893's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Akenback acres near Gadsden, AL
    Posts
    15,271
    Thanks
    1,631
    Thanked 12,947 Times in 4,691 Posts

    Default

    Are you doing this execise with the idea of making an engine to drop in as a replacement for stock automotive engines or for a new multi-fuel powered vehicle?

    While redesigning the wheel is a pastime of mine I think that it would be hard beat the old multifuels if you were putting them in a truck of comparitive size to the deuce.

    Most old diesels can be ran on a mix of flammable liquids if you don't overdo it and mix them with regular diesel. Years ago a trucking company I worked for dumped used motor oil into the road tractors we ran long haul in....this was about the time fuel prices started moving upward.

    As for gasoline engines I used to run an old lawn mower I had on mineral spirits mixed with gas....it smoked a lot but it got the grass cut.
    And the Dark Man said to him, "I will set you high in my artillery. You are the man I want." Then he saw an army of ten thousand driving across the desert and into the mountains, a rough beast of an army whose time had come at last. And riding in a giant tanker, he saw himself, and knew that the truck was filled with Napalm. Behind him, in a long column, were trucks loaded with bombs, mines, plastic explosive, flame throwers, flares, heat seeking missiles, grenades, machine guns and rocket launchers. The dance of death was about to begin, and already the strings of the fiddles and guitars were smoking and the stench of brimstone and cordite filled the air.

    Exclusive Media Agent for the prestigious firm of Smingleberry, Smingleberry and Smingleberry.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to wreckerman893 For This Useful Post:

    Hummermark (03-28-2018)

  3. #12
    Sergeant Major pacebm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Brewton, Alabama
    Posts
    142
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 30 Times in 14 Posts

    Default

    Increasing compression is fairly easy............getting the engine to hold up under the higher pressures would be quite an engineering problem. Anything can be done with enough skill and money so I will be watching this thread with interest.
    M715
    M105A2 M101A3 M1102
    MEP0016D 3kw
    M1009

    War Eagle

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to pacebm For This Useful Post:

    SCSG-G4 (11-16-2018)

  5. #13
    Bet on a clean Corvette rchalmers3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Irmo, South Carolina
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    640
    Thanked 431 Times in 282 Posts

    Default

    Re-engineering an existing compression ignition motor into a multi-fuel will probably require new heads, pistons, rods, IP, injectors and maybe a bottom end girder if the compression is significantly bumped.

    In my opinion, duplicating even 1/2 the success and durability of the White/Continental/Hercules MF will take a lot of time and money.

    Perhaps a project worth considering would be to purchase and collect the manufacturing tooling for the MF design so that production of engines and parts is available for decades to come. Then you would have a design that is proven to last a few laps around the block.

    Rick

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to rchalmers3 For This Useful Post:

    SCSG-G4 (11-16-2018)

  7. #14
    Colonel motomacguyver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Eau Claire, Wi. USA
    Posts
    269
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 68 Times in 38 Posts

    Default

    This is a very interesting thread. (Subscribed, hope I can add a little)

    What I know from the Listeroid (slow speed diesel) forum is that mechanical, indirect injection is preferred. I think it has something to do with preheating the intake charge (the indirect injection part). That said, WMO or WVO also have to be preheated to about 250 deg. just to flow well enough to work.

    I have read of the 12 valve (5.9?) Cummins and some older Mercedes Benz are working on WMO, WVO. Two fuel tanks are required, one for normal diesel and one for heated WVO, WMO. Once the engine is warmed up you can switch to waste oil. Then to cool down you switch to regular diesel. I would think if you have a setup that would run WMO, WVO you should be good to go with about any diesel like fuel mixture.
    "The ultimate sophistication is simplicity" Leonardo de Vinci
    "Donít do anything your not proud of." The way to live our lives, spoken by an old timer, whom I haven't had the privilege to know.

    Motomacguyver


    1997 M35A3
    1975 Moto Guzzi 850-T
    1975 Honda Trail 90
    1975 Yamaha RD 350
    1975 Suzuki GT 750
    2000 ZRX 1100 on Nitrous
    2004 KTM 625 smc supermoto

  8. #15
    Sergeant Major QuickSilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    172
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    As far as high compression goes, diesel performance enthusiasts, sled pullers, and drag racers use high compression 12v 6bt engines all the time, so I would think it would be a good candidate from that standpoint. The Bosch P7100 used on these engines is also nearly bulletproof, as well as capable of handling different types of fuel. A different piston design as well as a different injector design would probably be the only needed modifications.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to QuickSilver For This Useful Post:

    SCSG-G4 (03-25-2018)

  10. #16
    4 Star General Hammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Winlock, WA
    Posts
    1,298
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 216 Times in 139 Posts

    Default

    There is more to it then that.
    I have been thinking a LOT about this exact topic for quite some time now.
    I figured two setups would be nice to have.
    I would like to base one off of the GM 6.2 setup (indirect injection diesels already have a high compression ratio, stupid easy setup, and already have a low pressure setup for the injection.)
    And a much smaller engine, like a small VW, or maybe older benz. Thinking here is that they would make EXCELLENT power plants for house hold sized generators.
    Think of that, a 5k to 10k (or up to 30k really) that runs on ANYTHING!

    The truly hard part is designing a new head. I don't know of ANY other head that is close enough to how our multi-fuel heads are in design.

    If one doesn't know.
    Stupid simple terms of how our multifuel engines work.
    Fuel is SQUIRTED into the cup in the top of the piston. Note the cup even has a cut in it to help the fuel squirt in without atomizing any of the fuel, yet.
    Second, and the hardest part, the head is designed so that all incoming air is swirling just right, so that when it enters the cylinder, it is swirling directly into the cup in the top of the piston. The swirling air is what atomizes the fuel, which is obviously a technical feat to do this close to top of the compression stroke.
    The high compression ratio is required to ignite the fuel when it is being atomized in this form.
    Newer diesels use higher fuel pressure, smaller holes in the injectors, etc. to help precisely atomize the fuel.

    So, designing the pistons is easy. Copy what we already have. Then try and find an engine with a head design that closely matches that of our MFs as well.
    Also, having an engine that already has a high compression ratio solves a lot of other issues.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hammer For This Useful Post:

    SCSG-G4 (11-16-2018), Westex (04-11-2011)

  12. #17
    Sergeant Major QuickSilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    172
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Ok, I can see where the head design would be quite a trick. That sounds like it would involve machining a custom head, which is not cheap.

  13. #18
    General Westex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    580
    Thanks
    39
    Thanked 63 Times in 39 Posts

    Default

    Was not the original hypercycle design of the multifuel a German design, by the predecessor to the current MANN line of engines?
    M923 5 TON
    M35A2 Hardtop
    M1061A1 Trailer
    Big Gooseneck
    Nike 34" Aluminum Baseball Bat
    Lots of mutilated softballs

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Westex For This Useful Post:

    SCSG-G4 (11-16-2018)

  15. #19
    4 Star General jesusgatos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    on the road - in CA right now
    Posts
    2,681
    Thanks
    439
    Thanked 261 Times in 202 Posts

    Default

    Regarding compression, what's the difference between the static compression ratio and the effect that a turbo has? With a turbo, I guess it's more in/out, but the compression ratio would still determine how much that air is compressed beyond whatever psi it's at when it enters the engine. Is that right?
    no longer an active member on this forum

  16. #20
    4 Star General Hammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Winlock, WA
    Posts
    1,298
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 216 Times in 139 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusgatos View Post
    Regarding compression, what's the difference between the static compression ratio and the effect that a turbo has? With a turbo, I guess it's more in/out, but the compression ratio would still determine how much that air is compressed beyond whatever psi it's at when it enters the engine. Is that right?
    To a point, but you need the CR to be high to START the engine in the first place.

    I think a newer MF would definitely benefit from forced induction. But I think that it should be able to run without it.

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. ultimate onboard fuel filtration / processing setup
    By jesusgatos in forum Alternative Fuels
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 12-20-2010, 18:17
  2. Symptoms of multi fuel injector pump adjustment.
    By kaiser2help in forum 5-ton and up
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-08-2008, 21:08
  3. Gasser vs Multi Fuel tanks
    By Crash_AF in forum The Deuce
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-02-2008, 14:43
  4. multi fuel 101
    By hummin2london in forum The Deuce
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-18-2005, 12:26
  5. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-06-2005, 20:41

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •