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Thread: Putting Straight Vegetable Oil Directing into Tank of M35A2

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    Colonel Beyond Biodiesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floridianson View Post
    Myself and some others on SS believe ATF and it's friction modifiers are not good for the injection system. I will not run it.
    Interesting. I have been in dialog with waste oil burners for over 10 years, and have never heard of this issue. What I do hear is WATF and waste hydraulic oil (WHO) are best to burn on a diesel engine, because they do not require heating or blending to run as fuel, they just require filtering; and do not have the issue of dissolved carbon, as WMO has, which leads to injector coking.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

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    4 Star General DavidWymore's Avatar
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    I normally run pump diesel. How much oil should I be adding for lubrication? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidWymore View Post
    I normally run pump diesel. How much oil should I be adding for lubrication? Thanks
    If you are only interested in increasing the lubricity of ULSD diesel, then probably 10% waste oil would provide all the lubricity needed to compensate for the loss of lubricity in ULSD diesel fuel.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

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    Private Bisdale's Avatar
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    Ok guys, I've got some year old gasoline and I'm thinking of mixing it with filtered clean WVO. I was thinking of doing a 30/70 mix of gasoline to WVO or maybe a 50/50. Really all depends on how much gasoline I have. It's some old gas that's been in a toyhauler tank and the pump broke so it's been inaccessible. I'm going to drain it out and I dont really want to use it for any cars. I'm going to collect it in my 150 gallon aux tank in the bed of my deuce and mix in the veggie oil in there. Any thoughts? I'm curious about y'alls opinion or knowledge of the lubircity of such a cocktail. Maybe I should add ~10% diesel?

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    4 Star General porkysplace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisdale View Post
    Ok guys, I've got some year old gasoline and I'm thinking of mixing it with filtered clean WVO. I was thinking of doing a 30/70 mix of gasoline to WVO or maybe a 50/50. Really all depends on how much gasoline I have. It's some old gas that's been in a toyhauler tank and the pump broke so it's been inaccessible. I'm going to drain it out and I dont really want to use it for any cars. I'm going to collect it in my 150 gallon aux tank in the bed of my deuce and mix in the veggie oil in there. Any thoughts? I'm curious about y'alls opinion or knowledge of the lubircity of such a cocktail. Maybe I should add ~10% diesel?
    Unless you have a brand new tank you better invest in good supply of fuel filters , because the WVO is a solvent and will break every bit of crap in your tank loose and keep plugging filters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by porkysplace View Post
    .............. because the WVO is a solvent and will break every bit of crap in your tank loose and keep plugging filters.
    Not so much a solvent, really - unlike bio-diesel... What WVO does (due to the presence of free fatty acids) is corroding everything bare metal; preferably galvanized parts but also the interior of our fuel tanks, which are Pb-Zn-coated. And yes, the chemical reaction products tend to clog screens and filters.

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    Private Bisdale's Avatar
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    Any fuel, especially gasoline, is a non-polar solvent and gew/gunk/wax should be long gone as I run fresh fuel to the brim. My thought is with adding the gasoline (quite a powerful nonpolar solvent) the waxes in WVO would be less likely to come out if solution and will instead stay suspended and most importantly dissolved in the fuel. I just wonder about getting the right consistency and lybricity. I will likely do some small batch mixing to see what ratios would best resemble the viscosity of diesel in a range of temperatures.

    As for corrosion, I was unaware the free fatty acids would cause corrosion even to galvanized metal. How much of a real problem is the intensity of the corrosion?

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    Colonel Beyond Biodiesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisdale View Post
    Ok guys, I've got some year old gasoline and I'm thinking of mixing it with filtered clean WVO. I was thinking of doing a 30/70 mix of gasoline to WVO or maybe a 50/50. Really all depends on how much gasoline I have. It's some old gas that's been in a toyhauler tank and the pump broke so it's been inaccessible. I'm going to drain it out and I dont really want to use it for any cars. I'm going to collect it in my 150 gallon aux tank in the bed of my deuce and mix in the veggie oil in there. Any thoughts? I'm curious about y'alls opinion or knowledge of the lubircity of such a cocktail. Maybe I should add ~10% diesel?
    The problem with stale gasoline is the alcohol that might be added to your gasoline, typically at 10%, does not evaporate as much as the light petroleum fractions do. Consequently the alcohol content in stale gasoline can be significantly higher. So, I recommend not using stale gasoline over 10%. Otherwise seals, such as BUNA n and silicon seals, can be ruined by excessive gasoline content. For these seals I have found the alcohol content must be at or below 3%.

    Quote Originally Posted by porkysplace View Post
    Unless you have a brand new tank you better invest in good supply of fuel filters , because the WVO is a solvent and will break every bit of crap in your tank loose and keep plugging filters.
    More importantly not all of WVO will dissolve into petroleum distillates, so it is necessary to allow for a settling period of about 2 weeks for WVO, and a means of draining the sediments out of the blending tank, such as having a drain valve on it, as well as a cone, or dome-shaped bottom to the blending tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by gringeltaube View Post
    Not so much a solvent, really - unlike bio-diesel... What WVO does (due to the presence of free fatty acids) is corroding everything bare metal; preferably galvanized parts but also the interior of our fuel tanks, which are Pb-Zn-coated. And yes, the chemical reaction products tend to clog screens and filters.
    I have not had the problem of WVO dissolving, or rusting the fuel tank; however, my deuce tank is definitely galvanized, which attracts high melting point triglycerides and gum out of the WVO, which coats the tank. The good news is the high melting point triglycerides and gum make an impermiable barrier to water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bisdale View Post
    Any fuel, especially gasoline, is a non-polar solvent and gew/gunk/wax should be long gone as I run fresh fuel to the brim. My thought is with adding the gasoline (quite a powerful nonpolar solvent) the waxes in WVO would be less likely to come out if solution and will instead stay suspended and most importantly dissolved in the fuel. I just wonder about getting the right consistency and lybricity. I will likely do some small batch mixing to see what ratios would best resemble the viscosity of diesel in a range of temperatures.

    As for corrosion, I was unaware the free fatty acids would cause corrosion even to galvanized metal. How much of a real problem is the intensity of the corrosion?
    As mentioned above your problem with WVO-based fuels is the waxes, gum and HMPTs are going to precipitate out of solution, so you have to remove it, or otherwise your fuel tank will get sludged up in no time.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beyond Biodiesel View Post
    The problem with stale gasoline is the alcohol that might be added to your gasoline, typically at 10%, does not evaporate as much as the light petroleum fractions do. Consequently the alcohol content in stale gasoline can be significantly higher. So, I recommend not using stale gasoline over 10%. Otherwise seals, such as BUNA n and silicon seals, can be ruined by excessive gasoline content. For these seals I have found the alcohol content must be at or below 3%.
    More importantly not all of WVO will dissolve into petroleum distillates, so it is necessary to allow for a settling period of about 2 weeks for WVO, and a means of draining the sediments out of the blending tank, such as having a drain valve on it, as well as a cone, or dome-shaped bottom to the blending tank.
    I have not had the problem of WVO dissolving, or rusting the fuel tank; however, my deuce tank is definitely galvanized, which attracts high melting point triglycerides and gum out of the WVO, which coats the tank. The good news is the high melting point triglycerides and gum make an impermiable barrier to water.
    As mentioned above your problem with WVO-based fuels is the waxes, gum and HMPTs are going to precipitate out of solution, so you have to remove it, or otherwise your fuel tank will get sludged up in no time.
    Makes sense. I will use the stale gas in amounts less than 10% and just use diesel to cut the WVO if I decide to go with this. As much as a nice waterproof coating of my tank sounds, I think I might want to go another direction . I think I will try some tests in some controll tanks of different styles with different mixtures of WVO and leave them over time to see how they settle and react.

    My veggie oil guy allows his oil to settle for long periods of time and then only takes the good stuff, and then leaving a buffer of good stuff left in the settling tank as he drains as to have no chance of contaminates. he then uses 10 micron filter set up to further clean. He can also centrifuge it, but he said that that takes away a significant amount of the mass, and as long as I keep my oil from getting too cold, the fats that would separate out are fine to burn. He also has told me that is #1 customers are stock early-gen Ford Powerstroke owners who run the oil straight, but they use it all up within a day or so and don't leave it in there tanks. I would live to pick one of those guys brains about there experiences with that.

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    The other things to keep in mind are:
    1] there is always a precipitate formed after blending petroleum distillates with WVO.
    2] A drop in temperature can result in more precipitates formed, so be prepared to trap and drain sediments from your fuel system.
    3] A turbo-charger is critical equipment for burning WVO-based fuels.
    4] There is always blow-by when burning WVO-based fuels. So, adding a motor oil additive, such as Lucas oil treatment, is critical to avoiding gumming up your engine.
    5] And, it is also critical to change the motor oil frequently, say every 3,000 miles when running WVO-based fuels.
    6] There does not seem to be an engine that will burn WVO-based fuels at 100% without some coking and/or gumming. 75% is about max for a Turbo-equipped engine. And, 50% is about max for a naturally aspirated diesel engine.
    Last edited by Beyond Biodiesel; 08-02-2018 at 13:00.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

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