6.2L detroit in a 715/725?

spicergear said:

Tanner, what flywheel would you use with the big 3053A swap? I'm VERY well versed in the Chevy to 3053A/3052 tranny swap and have written many posts and references to them. I don't know for sure if the big stock 13" clutch size flywheel will interchange on the 6.x engines. If yes, great and done deal. If not, you may have to dig a little. I know the early gas Reo trucks had 12" clutches which would be more prone to fit a civvy flywheel. Something to watch on the 3053 swaps is that they do NOT have a rear transmission mount so you need to figure out how to fab one using the existing bolts for covers/bearing caps, etc there. The big bells also have large heavy mounting pads cast into them that WILL be in the way of a forward facing PTO drive so you will have to cut a chunk of that large pad off. Also those big bell housings can be in a single bolt pattern or dual pattern. Anyone going the 3053 route MUST have the dual pattern in the bell. One pattern is tapped, the other is straight thru-holes.

Indy, keep your eyes open in a few months and it may be in the classifieds.

Welder Sam, It's been a great tool to have around as the hobby and parts get heavier.

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Spicer -

I'd use the setup similar to what Juan runs on his M37 (which is the truck I'm SLOWLY working on...) - 3053A behind the GM 6.x motor, use a 6.x standard flywheel, and have Ft Worth Clutch make up a 12" clutch disc with the 3053A spline (10 by 1.5" IIRC?) - I got a quote @ 1 yr ago from Ft Worth Clutch saying that they could make a 6.x clutch disc with the Spicer spline hub for ~ $100.00. The 13" GM C40-C70 big flywheel WILL NOT WORK on a 6.x, as the diesels are EXTERNALLY balanced, and gasser small blocks (other than the 400) are internally balanced. So you cannot simply bolt the 13" 366/427 gasser big truck flywheel to the diesel and be balanced...

HTH -

Tanner

indy4x4fab said:

Or gust us a sm465 2wd tranny which did come bolted up behind a 6.2. I have 5 of them.

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True, you could use the SM465, but IIRC - it's a 4 speed without Overdrive - the 3053A has an Overdrive 5th gear that would be more accomodating to the steep stock M715 gearing (unless you regear/swap final drives). And on the 6.x motor, revving it past ~ 2600rpm just wastes fuel - I recall max power (if it can be called that on a GM diesel) occurs in mid-2k rpm range?

Tanner

Id imagine so!

2100 to 2400 on a good running engine.

Overdrive is a must bit i want whatever combo i go with to be off the shelf parts that are easy to obtain. This is important to me because part failures happen at the worst times in the worst locations. Thats why i have chosen gm engine and axles. Idk what if any 5spd trannys gm put behind these.

As best as i can recall, u folks have pointed out that motor/trans mounts and the glow plug switch is what will be the most..... um... modification needed areas.
Next we have:
Driveshafts
Radiator
Pwr steering
Power brakes
Fuel delivery

If i missed something, dont hesitate.

Welder Sam,
thank you for cross relate to me as someome who shwapt to a 6.2 l DD engine.
However, I have to ad some infromation.
In the US there was (do not kow if still is) an adopting kit awailable for some, as far as I remember 600 bucks. Without the clutch linkage.
The bell housing you need is the GM #1, however you have to grind out the space for the starter. Manual fly wheel you need (best should be GM original), an aftermarket heavy duty clutch and throug out bearing (that is what I use.) For electricity I use the mlitary Blazer K5 system, however had a lot of corrections to do. I also use a hydraulic boosted brake with pedal forces like a passenger car and a modified rear brake with 15/16 " cylinders for better brake balance (two circut brake system, of course!).
The adaption to the stock MT I built myself.
This works for me since 2004 and some 20000 miles.
Initially I had a lot of problems with non fitting original parts, which did eat drive belts. Meanwhile my truck runns reliable.
The exhaust system I built myself with stainless steel tubings and custom made silencers.
So the project is not that easy until it run satisfactorily.
The pics are maily from the second removal of the engine, for the Blzar glow plugs are 6 second lugs. To avoid prblems use the Hummeer plugs whichhave a regultor built in.
Hope this helps.
Wolf
By the way, the 6.2 l DD which died, have been maily members of the desert storm.
Unreliable are thestarter, the generatrors and the injectioin pump. The later you can keep alive with using Diesel fuel withone percent of cheep engine oil.i

GM ran the NV4500 behind the 6.5 motors; but they're kinda spendy and the synthetic fluid isn't cheap. This was the reason for my choice in going with the Spicer Deuce trans - it's a big stupid hammer of a gearbox.

This is the article that many people look to for info on installing a Spicer 3053A behind a GM motor. Note, however, that the gear ratio info on the Spicer has some errors.

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/drivetrain/154_0509_spicer_3053a_transmission/index.html


Tanner

Nice pics wolf! Thanks! Tanner, i appreciate the info and will check it out but ima try my best to stay far away from any mil parts as theyre not generally "napa-friendly". I may make an exception in this case tho. Re: 1. Its surely tuff as h*ll. 2. It is a five speed. 3. Its gotta really cool huge shift handle! Cool factor is important. I should have an extra from an m109 that ill use as a donor for my crewcab. Hmm... (this is a total flip of my thinking but) would the multifuel fit in the engine bay w/o hacking? Parts commonality (yes ive mentioned it before) is also a factor.im surse the deuce radiator wouldnt fit. Would be sweet to be able to run a wmo mix fuel for all the trucks. Would the deuce t-case fit? Even if its not "napa-friendly", itd be easier to keep parts for one motor/trans/t-case type than to try to keep spare this and that with various grades of respective lube oils. If this could happen, id have a major need for extra deuce fuel tanks.


The more i dig, the more questions i have.

Um, Tanner. You do know that Tom, Spicergear, was the information source for that JP article, right? His truck, Velvet that he took to TTC in 2005 had that set up in it.

Tom in my opinion is THE SOURCE for all things fabbed and matched together. The first time I met him, he had just thrown the Rockwells under Velvet, did a test drive to pick up some food or something. Then drove 1200 miles straight to a M715 gathering in KY I was at. Wheeled it pretty hard all week and then drove it 1200 miles straight home. No troubles except a few parts from a stupid supplier no longer in business. He doesn't post much, but when it comes to making things fit together. Treat his words like gold.

Tanner said:

GM ran the NV4500 behind the 6.5 motors; but they're kinda spendy and the synthetic fluid isn't cheap. This was the reason for my choice in going with the Spicer Deuce trans - it's a big stupid hammer of a gearbox.

This is the article that many people look to for info on installing a Spicer 3053A behind a GM motor. Note, however, that the gear ratio info on the Spicer has some errors.

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/drivetrain/154_0509_spicer_3053a_transmission/index.html


Tanner

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Thanks Barrman, once again!

Tanner...I basically wrote that article in multiple emails and sent it to that guy. I even sent him pics, let him take pics and crawl all over my truck at a show, AND sold him a the bellhousing pictured. No credit WHATSOEVER. Thanks Pete, Azzhole.

That knothead even cut his M715's floor to fit the NP205?!? It's the same size at the NP200!

Anyway, I coudn't remember the balance of the 6.2 & 6.5's but I remember now I had even thought about seeing if the balance weight from a 6.2 or 6.5 flex plate could be installed on the 13" clutch's flywheel. I ended up getting an NV4500 core from Barrman and bringing it back to life. The NV4500 and 3053 are literally within several pounds of each other as I've had them side by side and weighed them. Actually the weights of the transmissions (in the posted link) was something he didn't ask...and they got the 3053 wrong.

Welder Sam, as for the fuel delivery if you stay with the diesel...it's SO easy. Run the mechanical pump on the engine from the regular fuel line from the tank. You'll need a return line from the engine back to the tank. EASIEST way to do this is to slap another line heading rearward down the frame and run it into the vent on the on the side of the large diameter fuel filler. When the engine is running, pop off the fuel fill cap and you'll see a trickle of fuel running out of it into the fuel fill. Easy as pie and keeps you from having to modify the tank.

Oh, and make sure the tank isn't full of crap. The 715 tanks seem to end up that way or rusted bad.

Barrman said:

Um, Tanner. You do know that Tom, Spicergear, was the information source for that JP article, right? His truck, Velvet that he took to TTC in 2005 had that set up in it.

Tom in my opinion is THE SOURCE for all things fabbed and matched together. The first time I met him, he had just thrown the Rockwells under Velvet, did a test drive to pick up some food or something. Then drove 1200 miles straight to a M715 gathering in KY I was at. Wheeled it pretty hard all week and then drove it 1200 miles straight home. No troubles except a few parts from a stupid supplier no longer in business. He doesn't post much, but when it comes to making things fit together. Treat his words like gold.

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Barrman - I merely pointed the OP in the direction of the article, as I have used the correct parts of the information posted on my project...

I don't often take the time to put 2 & 2 together as to who the source is for certain info on the 'net, but appreciate your bring up that Tom is the source for some of the info.

And I've been splicing together info sourced from Juan Castro on his 6.2/3053A into M37 project, so this hasn't really been a 'one-source fits all' project. And the Jeep 3053A article cited was for gasser setup; the 6.x diesel presented a couple required tweaks.

You CAN use the big truck 13" flywheel, but to do it accurately requires taking the engine apart & getting an automotive machine shop to balance the crank, rods, balancer, flywheel and other major rotating bits to match - UNLESS you can find the imbalace in a stock 6.x flywheel and index match balance it to the 13" flywheel.

There are more than a few ways to skin this cat - the big GM bellhousing was a known entity for me since 1982 from our farm trucks with Spicer transmisisons and from working at my uncles shop... just never realized that I would be revisiting it 20+ years later on my own truck project...

'Tanner'

I stubled across one of the bellhousing in a junkyard where they had pulled the transmission off of it and it was one of the bell's with the dual patterns in it. ?!?! I couldn't believe what I was seeing at first and knew with that odd bottom '5th bolt' hole it had to fit the 3053/3052 trannies.

Oh, and another quick note, the Reo gasser deuces 12" clutch disc was solid with no springs around the splined center hub. So it would work, but clutch engagement may have a little more...sort of vibration or chatter to it.

The bellhousings are getting a little tougher to find, as the adapter ring mysteriously 'disappears' when they get separated from the transmission!

It took me about 2-3 months to locate a complete setup; now I have guys offering them to me... the BH's with 5th bolt at 6-o'clock spot are a bit tougher to locate.

And the Reo gasser disc works fine, as long as it is a marcel-style and not a true solid disc with pads riveted/bonded to a flat plate.

'Tanner'

This is not the direction i want to go then. If i go 6.x, i need all the parts to be readily available. Ill look for other diesel motor/trans combo's that are more common.

Thank u all for ur assistance and info. Id much rather blow theories here than to spend several thousand dollars and weeks and weeks of time hunting hoping and attempting and still end up no better off than i was

Spicergear.... I've got extra sets of the big bell-housing & required bits for more swaps...

Including the much-coveted dual-pattern bell housing...

'Tanner'

kinda shoved it to the back.... wayyyy back... sorry. i really havent given this much if any thought recently. just too busy with other stuff

6.2's are very problem prone thats why gm got away from them. had to beat a good stock sbc for a m715 swap