Texas CDL?

Hey guys, I was searching the forum for a definitive answer to this topic: If I own a 5-ton truck, and I use it only for personal use (not hauling a whole lot, maybe 1-3k pounds), do I need the CDL? Some folks seemed to indicate that it wasn't required so long as my gross tonnage stayed under a certain mark and I did not use the truck for a hauling operation where I was paid to use the truck.

Any input from my fellow Texas veterans is much appreciated!

rahl07 said:

Hey guys, I was searching the forum for a definitive answer to this topic: If I own a 5-ton truck, and I use it only for personal use (not hauling a whole lot, maybe 1-3k pounds), do I need the CDL? Some folks seemed to indicate that it wasn't required so long as my gross tonnage stayed under a certain mark and I did not use the truck for a hauling operation where I was paid to use the truck.

Any input from my fellow Texas veterans is much appreciated!

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From the discussions I've had with LEOs (including MV owners) a 5 ton requires a Class A license. It can be a CDL or non-CDL but due to the weight you need the upgrade. And it doesn't matter if the truck is registered as a former military vehicle or not, still need the Class A.

Thanks a bunch man.

mkcoen said:

From the discussions I've had with LEOs (including MV owners) a 5 ton requires a Class A license. It can be a CDL or non-CDL but due to the weight you need the upgrade. And it doesn't matter if the truck is registered as a former military vehicle or not, still need the Class A.

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It is the weight but also the air brakes. CDL class A with air endorsemnt. 120 question test with driving test.

Unless the truck in question is a M9xxA2 it will be air over hydraulic brakes so a Class-A is not required for that reason, however that point is moot as the GVW of ANY military 5ton is greater than #26,000, Class-A required. As one of our members found out, Texas DPS does not care WHY you are driving a truck over #26K GVW, as long as you have a Class-A you are cool. This also applies to a M35A2/A3 with a M105 trailer in tow, the trailer pushes the GVW of the combo over #26K so a Class-A is required there too.

Hey rahl07,

This was covered in a thread previously: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/5-ton-up/96545-cdl-required-drive-5-ton.html but it's kinda hidden, so, I'll repost what is on that thread.

Since the thread is here, I thought I'd list the TEXAS requirements in the thread for anyone from the LONE STAR STATE that may read this.

If you live in another state, I can't tell you how/what is required, but if you're reading this thread and live in TEXAS, this is for you:

In TEXAS, the driver's license requirement is determined by the GVWR of the vehicle you're driving. It's covered in the Texas Transportation Code (Texas Transportation Code 521.081, 521.082, and 521,083). The GVWR is determined by the weight of the vehicle plus the weight of the maximum load the vehicle can carry or pull.

In TEXAS, the standard driver's license is a CLASS C driver's license. The CLASS C driver's license allows you to drive a vehicle with a GVWR up to 26,000 lbs (25,999 or less).

A CLASS B driver's license allows you to drive a vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs or more, PLUS carry a load or pull a trailer that weighs up to 10,000 lbs (9,999 lbs). (25,999 lbs + up to 10,000 lbs cargo (9,999 lbs) equals 35,998 lbs total).

A Class A allows you to drive a vehicle with GVWR of 26,000 or more PLUS carry a load or pull a trailer that weighs 10,000 lbs or more. (36,000 lbs or MORE total)

SO, in TEXAS, if you want to drive an M923 5-Ton CARGO truck, which weighs 22,000 lbs and can carry (+) 10,000 lbs of cargo, (=) 32,000 lbs which is MORE than 26,000 lbs, and less than 36,000 lbs, you will need a CLASS B driver's license (as long as you're not pulling a trailer) If you're pulling a trailer, you'll need a Class A driver's license since the M923 can pull 15,000 lbs. When you register the M923, the GVWR will only include the weight of the truck and the cargo capacity. My M923 weighs 21,600 and can carry 10,000 cargo, so the GVWR on my title is 31,600.

Clear as mud....

NOW, having been a police officer for 13 years, I can tell you, I've never ONCE asked what the GVWR was of a vehicle. BUT, we have Commercial Vehicle Officers that DO ask those type of questions, not to mention Texas State Troopers, that ALSO ask those questions. SO, you can chance it if you want, and you may even get by if a patrol officer in a big city stops you. BUT, if a Commercial Vehicle Officer, or State Trooper stops you, you're looking at a BIG fine. I just bought a 5 Ton two weeks ago, and had it pulled to my driveway. I'm studying now for my Class B driver's license and will get it BEFORE I drive my truck.

It's your call......

One more thing I forgot to mention, there isn't really an "Air Brake Endorcement", but there is a "Restriction - No Air Brakes" that can be put on your CDL if you choose to not take the air brakes portion of the test for some reason, so you do have to study for and pass the air brake portion of the exam to get a Class B or Class A CDL, if you don't, you're license will have the Restriction - No Air Brakes listed on it, which will do you no good, since the M923 brakes are a total air brake system.

A CDL is not required in Tx if it is a personal vehicle for personal use no matter the weight. If you are using it for work or to make money then that is considered commercial use. I'm sitting here looking at the CDL handbook reading the exemptions right now. It would probably make it easier on all parties involved to go ahead and get one though because sometimes troopers don't have time to remember every single law and you still may have to go to court and that is a pain.

GHall,

Hate to disagree with you, but if you google Texas Transportation Code 521.081, 521.082, and 521,083 you'll see that personal use is NO WHERE in the statute.... PERIOD. The license you need is directly related to the GVWR of the vehicle you're driving - regardless of why you're driving it.

ntxcop,

No worries, I agree with what you are saying.. It's hard to get a straight answer out of the DMV on many subjects pertaining to these vehicles. My truck is titled as 23,000 but it's a tractor which makes no sense because it can pull much more than that. Then I told the people at the DMV that I still wanted to get my CDL and they argued with me that if my truck was for personal use that I still don't need one, they pulled out the handbook and circled it for me then gave me the handbook. Needless to say, I went to another DMV to start the process of getting my CDL. Sure enough it's in the handbook though..

ntxcop,

No worries, I agree with what you are saying.. It's hard to get a straight answer out of the DMV on many subjects pertaining to these vehicles. My truck is titled as 23,000 but it's a tractor which makes no sense because it can pull much more than that. Then I told the people at the DMV that I still wanted to get my CDL and they argued with me that if my truck was for personal use that I still don't need one, they pulled out the handbook and circled it for me then gave me the handbook. Needless to say, I went to another DMV to start the process of getting my CDL. Sure enough it's in the handbook though..

Okay, both of you are right, actually.

Clarification- You don't need a commercial license to haul for personal use, you need a Non-Commercial Class A or B. Same level of license, same test, you just don't have to pay the commercial fees or meet the other commercial standards/rules. Most DMV offices refer to it as an ag exemption.

And FYI - DPS will NOT let you take your test in a former MV, the vehicle you take the test in MUST pass the inspection. Been argued many times, DPS will not budge on this.

Cheers

Please,please this dog has been beat to death so many times it resembles a piñata after a kid's party.

GHall said:

ntxcop,

No worries, I agree with what you are saying.. It's hard to get a straight answer out of the DMV on many subjects pertaining to these vehicles. My truck is titled as 23,000 but it's a tractor which makes no sense because it can pull much more than that. Then I told the people at the DMV that I still wanted to get my CDL and they argued with me that if my truck was for personal use that I still don't need one, they pulled out the handbook and circled it for me then gave me the handbook. Needless to say, I went to another DMV to start the process of getting my CDL. Sure enough it's in the handbook though..

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Your confusion here lies in the "C" part of "CDL" which means "Commercial" and has nothing to do with GVW. The Commercial part is for people driving for money and is not required for anyone operating a personal vehicle for non commercial reasons (which means driving for compensation of ANY kind, including barter). We can get a Class A NON Commercial DL that will allow us to drive any vehicle regardless of GVW as long as it is not for compensation and we are not hauling Haz Mat. Another benefit of a Class A non Commercial DL is that the state comes down hard on CDL holders who are ticketed for moving violations, regardless of the vehicle they are driving at the time of the violation, and a Class A non Commercial does not have those penalties.

GHall said:

A CDL is not required in Tx if it is a personal vehicle for personal use no matter the weight. If you are using it for work or to make money then that is considered commercial use. I'm sitting here looking at the CDL handbook reading the exemptions right now. It would probably make it easier on all parties involved to go ahead and get one though because sometimes troopers don't have time to remember every single law and you still may have to go to court and that is a pain.

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Note previous quote..

GHall said:

Note previous quote..

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If you are not pulling for money get a Class A and leave the CDL for the professionals!

When the subject of a non-commercial class A or B Texas Driver's license has come up before, the sticking point is always the attached form, which (unless the procedures have changed) you need to fill out when applying for the license. Lying on it invalidates the license. Which one do you choose ? Note that our trucks (unless modified and registered as an RV) are not "recreational vehicles" under the Texas definitions.

As I remember from the thread-
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...hicles)&highlight=texas+law+military+vehicles

the consensus (for whatever it was worth...) was that once you had the non-commercial A or B license, it was the correct license for driving the bigger trucks, especially if they were registered as FMV's which specifically prohibits any commercial use.

I read that same thread. It's a good one and very informative! I'm just trying to figure out how to register my truck between FMV or Farm Truck. I work on a ranch and if it's registered as a farm truck and is used as such, as I understand it that exempts me from any and all CDL requirements. I'm am aware of the 150 air mile restrictions and not worried about that. Anytime I need to take it to get serviced I would just throw a few feed bags on it. I have also talked to my insurance company and they are not worried about what license I have or where an accident may occur. They say I'm covered no matter what. Anyone with experience, opinions or suggestions would be great! Not trying to highjack by any means.. Is this one of those instances where I should start my own thread?

Thanks!

Your insurance company is only concerned about 2 specific things (and don't take an agent's word on it talk to a claims adjuster):

1) Does the vehicle meet the definition of an "insured vehicle." This means does it qualify for the policy and/or is it the vehicle listed on the policy. If you have a 5ton on a "personal auto policy" it does not qualify under the definitions of an "auto" on most policies because it will be over 10k GVW for which there is a specific exclusion. It doesn't matter if your agent sold you the policy and printed you a card for it or not. It doesn't matter if you "explained" what the vehicle is or not. You have a responsibility to read the policy, definitions, and exclusions and determine if your vehicle qualifies.

2) Was the vehicle, at the time of the loss, driven by an insured driver (you or anyone named on the policy) or by a qualified "unlisted driver," meaning someone you gave permission to and who does not a) reside in your household and b) have frequent use of the vehicle. Under most policies anyone residing in you house who is old enough to drive has to be specifically added or EXCLUDED from the policy for coverage to exist. Don't listen to those who will tell you that anyone can drive your vehicle if you have insurance and gave them permission. That's a state/criminal statute and we're talking contract law. The insurance company CAN deny a claim (void your policy), under the contract you signed with them, if your 17 year old is driving one of your vehicles and is not on the policy.

I was an auto insurance claim manager for 10 years and I've had these arguements with several attorneys for claims we denied (won all of them too when presented in court - if they were dumb enough to take it that far).

Now there are other exclusions (read your policy) that could get the claim denied such as were you participating in a sanctioned "racing" event, was the vehicle being used in the act or commision of a felony, etc. Each insurance company has a list under the "Exclusions" section of your policy.

The 150 mile ag restriction the state has shouldn't be an issue. I won't say "isn't" an issue because different insurance companies have different restrictions based on the policy you purchased. Again, no matter how boring it can be, READ YOUR POLICY.