Replacing my starter with a gear reduction style

The armature in my starter fried, so I am replacing the whole thing with a gear reduction starter, got a pretty good deal on it. $230

For us starter-technology challenged, could you elaborate? The usual Deuce starter is direct drive, right?

I am sure, the manufacturer and part number of your starter would be of interest, too!

Gear reduction drives spin faster because the motor is more efficient when at a lower torque load. Less current too.

Since torque is proportional to current and current is limited by wiring, reduction drives multiply torque. This allows higher speed on the engine which is always a great thing.

I know the Chevrolet CUCVs, and the Onan MEP-002/003A diesel generators had gear reduction starter modifications. Didn't know the M35s had them. Good to know. Bet it is a bit lighter too.

is it waterproof/resistant

Me need one, too!

subscribed

SAASE: 39MT OEM starter selection page
This is a link to the exact starter that I bought, $230. I picked it up since he was semi local to me. I just finished putting it in this evening. I discovered what caused my old starter to crap out....The push button start switch stayed stuck in the start position, causing the starter to be completely engaged for about 15 miles of highway speeds. So I rewired a new LED switch in that lights when the starter is engaged, looks neat and is a good safeguard in case for any reason the starter stays powered. I'll try and get some pics over the weekend.

Yes, the original starter is a direct drive unit that will draw more amps when cranking. A gear reduction starter takes less draw to turn over the motor, so in theory it is easier on the batteries.

Oh, I had to drill the 3 mounting holes out to 5/8" since the 12 tooth starter only came with 1/2" mounting hole, but no big deal. And the new starter was about half the weight of the original, so it was a lot easier to lift it into place

YAY.... It feels good to be driving Bob again.

rizzo said:

is it waterproof/resistant

Click to expand...

I asked if it was waterproof, he said they are sealed up with gaskets and glue. But I see it has the standard one way rubber drain that is on most starters. I am thinking of looking for a different type of drain/vent.

Keith_J said:

Gear reduction drives spin faster because the motor is more efficient when at a lower torque load. Less current too.

Since torque is proportional to current and current is limited by wiring, reduction drives multiply torque. This allows higher speed on the engine which is always a great thing.

I know the Chevrolet CUCVs, and the Onan MEP-002/003A diesel generators had gear reduction starter modifications. Didn't know the M35s had them. Good to know. Bet it is a bit lighter too.

Click to expand...

It is 30 lbs versus the 70 lbs of the original.

Part number

jerseyjeep2003 said:

SAASE: 39MT OEM starter selection page
This is a link to the exact starter that I bought, $230. I picked it up since he was semi local to me. I just finished putting it in this evening. I discovered what caused my old starter to crap out....The push button start switch stayed stuck in the start position, causing the starter to be completely engaged for about 15 miles of highway speeds. So I rewired a new LED switch in that lights when the starter is engaged, looks neat and is a good safeguard in case for any reason the starter stays powered. I'll try and get some pics over the weekend.

Yes, the original starter is a direct drive unit that will draw more amps when cranking. A gear reduction starter takes less draw to turn over the motor, so in theory it is easier on the batteries.

Oh, I had to drill the 3 mounting holes out to 5/8" since the 12 tooth starter only came with 1/2" mounting hole, but no big deal. And the new starter was about half the weight of the original, so it was a lot easier to lift it into place

YAY.... It feels good to be driving Bob again.

Click to expand...

_______________
Just to be sure exactly what part number did you use?

Outside of cost is there any reason that one of the other models
would not work that has possibly more features?

Thanks,
Orren

orren said:

_______________
Just to be sure exactly what part number did you use?

Outside of cost is there any reason that one of the other models
would not work that has possibly more features?

Thanks,
Orren

Click to expand...

I had one shop diagnose my old starter, for which he wasn't able to get a replacement armature. Then he said the aftermarket starters that would fit would be 39 MT or 42 MT. He gave me some crazy high prices, so I did some research and found the place listed in the link. Anything that is not gear reduction has a "snout" to support the bendix shaft, from what I have been told you have to watch the size and shape of it so it clears the bell housing.

As far as the model # I got, it is on my receipt as Item # PRPU392412VB Description (STR4391) 39mt 24V 12 tooth Starter. Since I had my old starter in hand I showed them what I needed and this is what he suggested.

So far so good with the whole upgrade, It really isn't a difficult job to do and it eliminates the troublesome remote relay. I think my next mod will now be switching out the generator for a 24 volt alternator which he also carries @ around $130.

jerseyjeep2003 said:

So far so good with the whole upgrade, It really isn't a difficult job to do and it eliminates the troublesome remote relay. I think my next mod will now be switching out the generator for a 24 volt alternator which he also carries @ around $130.

Click to expand...

I got a 100a Prestolite or Delco single wire for about $130. I will see if I can find the # when I get home.

Cool, The one he has is also a Delco, but I think it is only a 70 amp. A 70 would probably be sufficient since there aren't many accessories to power, but, a 100 amp would be better.

Engine fit for starter

jerseyjeep2003 said:

I had one shop diagnose my old starter, for which he wasn't able to get a replacement armature. Then he said the aftermarket starters that would fit would be 39 MT or 42 MT. He gave me some crazy high prices, so I did some research and found the place listed in the link. Anything that is not gear reduction has a "snout" to support the bendix shaft, from what I have been told you have to watch the size and shape of it so it clears the bell housing.

As far as the model # I got, it is on my receipt as Item # PRPU392412VB Description (STR4391) 39mt 24V 12 tooth Starter. Since I had my old starter in hand I showed them what I needed and this is what he suggested.

So far so good with the whole upgrade, It really isn't a difficult job to do and it eliminates the troublesome remote relay. I think my next mod will now be switching out the generator for a 24 volt alternator which he also carries @ around $130.

Click to expand...

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I have the LDT-465 engine. What engine do you have that this starter fit?

Thanks, Orren

I like the idea of the gear reduction starter, I can replace parts, but am not savy enough to think out side the box, so I have a few questions.

If this installation does away with the starter relay, then how do you wire it up? Got a diagram for us electrical challenged types?

Also I noticed the stock deuce starter has an aluminum spacer plate between the starter and the bell housing......do you need to use this spacer with the gear reduction starter, or do you discard it?

It doesn't totally do away with a starter relay, but it has a smaller, sealed unit relay attached to the new starter. With that you will not need the old relay attached to the block. I wired mine by taking the wire from the top of the old relay (from push button switch) and attaching it to the hot side of the new relay (small phillips screw). Then the wire marked #10 (horn relay wire) went to the hot side (large lug) of the solenoid, The wire from the generator also goes to the large lug on the solenoid. Then the last 2 wires are simple, hot from the batteries goes to the hot side of the solenoid also, and the ground from the frame goes to the large lug of the motor itself. The spacer stays, do not remove it. Be sure to replace the push button starter switch. Mine was sticking and caused all of my problems.The hardest part of the install is bench pressing the old starter out of the truck...it is heavy. Probably be easier wits a small ratchet strap and lower from above. But, hey, I never do things the easy way the first time. Hahaha I will try and get some better pics tomorrow and mark them with details.

It is my understanding that this starter will fit any of the multifuel engines. If you check with the guys at the link I gave, they are very knowledgeable and will be able to work from the original starter numbers.

jerseyjeep:

Thanks for the info, pictures are always welcome for us less knowedgeble types!

VERY VERY helpful info. Making these babys more efficient helps put a positive outlook on OD vehicles.

Im subscribing that's for sure!

Not sure if this one would work but it is a 39MT, 24V, and 12 tooth:

NEW STARTER DELCO 39MT 24 VOLT 10461759 19011512 8200027 8200044 SDR0328 | eBay

JasonS said:

Not sure if this one would work but it is a 39MT, 24V, and 12 tooth:

NEW STARTER DELCO 39MT 24 VOLT 10461759 19011512 8200027 8200044 SDR0328 | eBay

Click to expand...

Not sure, it looks similar, but I don't see any bolts that would allow you to "clock" the mounting flange. Even though there is a ton of room around the starter, it is still has only one position that the flange will bolt into and allow the solenoid to clear the block or the frame. Plus I don't think that one has the relay attached. It may work as a replacement, but, I don't know....50/50 shot.