Dump Bed Conversion Questions

[kiotiugly]

I'm looking at getting around to converting my deuce bed to a dump bed, mostly for general purpose debris hauling around the farm (not heavy duty dirt/gravel etc). I've searched and searched on here and found several threads and lots of information, but I've still got a few questions. If I have overlooked something in my search, I apologize in advance.

I've got a 10 ton rated hoist and at least 3 different electric hydraulic pumps. 1 is a 12v the other two are 24v off of electric forklifts (1 has a built-in resevoir, the other will have to have a separate resevoir).

The part I am missing is the bed hinges. I've talked to a couple of truck body shops in my area and all they have/install is hinges for tandem and tri-axle trucks (i.e. 20 ton haulers). They have a 2 1/2" solid shaft, which I think is probably a little large. I've also looked as some of the hinges that Pierce sells and they look like they could work, but they're relatively expensive.

I've looked at some pics on the threads that I've found and it looks like the hinges could be fabricated fairly easily. I am not a fabricator, but I work with a group that has a full fab shop (not machining, though). Anyway, here are a couple of the questions I need help with:

1. What diameter shaft would be good for the loads involved? The Pierce units for up to 10 tons use 1 1/4" stock (or at least that's what the parts say). Is 1 1/4" enough?

2. Is it good enough to make a hinge that will bolt/weld onto the outside of the bed rails that will connect to a shaft that runs through the back of the frame of the truck? I'm assuming I will need to attach some hubs or bearings to the inside of the truck frame. Is it better to use a hub (I'm thinking of a bascially a pipe with a shaft running through it, with maybe a grease fitting on it) or an actual bearing?

3. Is it common to have have to raise the bed some off of the frame in order to gain clearance for the hoist (I have a scissor hoist)? Does this also help with the hinge setup on the back of the frame (so the bed frame doesn't interfere with the truck frame when it dumps)?

4. If I have to raise the bed some, I will need to install firring strips (right?). On a stock deuce, it appears as if there is a 3/4" or so piece of wood between the truck frame and the bed frame. Is there any problem with using wood as a firring strip? Would it be better to use treated wood, hardwood, or a plastic like delrin or UHMW?

Sorry for all of the questions - this is going to be my first project on my truck and I'm trying to get it right - and it seems as though there are lots of folks who have done this before. If anyone has any pictures of what they did to their truck, and don't mind to share, I'd like to see them. I've already downloaded most of the pictures off of the threads that I found (I searched for "dump bed" and "dump hinge" in the deuce forums).

Thanks for all the help. Take care.

 

[ETHOS]

Hinges......

I would get the material and make my own, I would go 2.25 inches for the pin for sure, you know it works for someone else, so why change, I would get 2.5 inch 4150 steel and machine it to the correct size, then turn a smaller diameter on one end, make a 4 inch square plate of the same material, bore a hole in it to fit the small end of the shaft, and press together, and then weld on both sided.....

they would be solidly mounted onto the bed, the frame side with holes for the pin would be made fro the same material, solid 4.45 inch bar stock, bored out to make the "pipe" grease zerk hole in the end, welded and gusseted to 1/2 inch plate, bolted to the frame with big grade 8 bolts, like 6 of them with 5/8 diameter threads



overbuild the thing for safety, I would place alignment pins in 4 spots on the bed that drop into the holes where the bed bolts to the frame


there are hydraulic guys on here who can give you all of the info that you need there

in other words

 

[trog]

A common size of shaft for a dump bed pivot is 1.5 inch. I make plain bushings about an inch thick and weld them to mounting plates cut from half-inch plate.

 

[kiotiugly]

When you say a plain bushing about an inch thick, do you mean it is like a 1.5" diameter pipe, cut an inch long, and welded to a 1/2" thick plate with a hole through it? Is there any concern for being about to lube/grease this connection, or is the use so slow it doesn't matter?

Also, is the frame a deuce heat treated? Are there any problems with welding on the frame? Do batteries need to be disconnected or anything like that?

Thanks again for the help.

Take care.

 

[Speddmon]

ALWAYS disconnect the batteries in any vehicle you weld on!!!!!!!!

all but the very oddest animals are negative grounded systems. When you ground your welder you are running a chance of back feeding the battery with potentially a much larger voltage than they are designed for and could cause them to explode.

As to the frames and heat treating and the bushings, someone with some experience will have to chime in for help there

 

[avengeusa]

I would go heavy on the hinge, disconnect the batteries before welding

you can weld on a deuce frame with no issues due to heat, but be sure that all wires inside of the frame near the weld area are removed as to protect them from being burned by the welding heat

 

[gimpyrobb]

Keeping it!

 

[KsM715]

Gimpy, pm sent

 

[Speddmon]

Hey Gimp, do I smell another trip to Kansas coming up????????

 

[m16ty]

1.5" shaft will be more than enough for a deuce. I've installed several dumps on civilain trucks and I either use the hinges from the truck the bed came off of or I make my own.

Depending on your hoist you may have to raise the bed for clearance but I wouldn't if I didn't have to. There are other ways to gain clearance for the hoist as in notching the bed crossmembers or I think mangus even took out a frame crossmember. From his pics it looks like the hoist frame fit in the place of the truck crossmember so the hoist frame should provide the support for the frame. It is a good idea to leave the wood between the bed and frame. you'll have to bolt it down though. Over time if you don't have wood on dumps the bed will move on the frame and wear your frame and bed rails.

I'm not a big fan of electric pumps. Alot of people use them but all I've ever seen were too slow for my taste.

 

[kiotiugly]

I appreciate the responses so far - thanks for the tips. I talked with my fabricator friend yesterday and he's going to start working on the hinge/shaft setup. He thought he had some 1.5" material at his shop.

I will be sure to disconnect the batteries before welding. The only other times I've welded on equipment, I've always done that, but I appreciate the explanation and reinforcement!

The electric pump is a compromise for me, but I'm planning on saving the PTO for a winch setup (truck is non-winch right now). I saw one of the double ended PTOs for sale for $500 and decided I didn't need that. Also, I'm just going to use the truck around the farm and it's probably only going to dump a few times a day at most - and even an electric pump will be alot faster than unloading tree branches and junk by hand!

Thanks again for the comments and suggestions.

 

[res0wc18]

this is being discussed further here

m105 dump bed trailer

so i have one old 105 trailer left and i am considering making it a powered dump bed. So in anticipation and research i contacted pierce sales for some info on their 2 ton universal kits which comes with everything you would need to make it work. I then asked them about a 24v setup. They said...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Engine5]

If this is going on a deuce, does this deuce have power steering? If you are hauling heavy loads I would think it a good idea to have power steering for better control.

 

[jatonka]

How about google Crysteel and buy one of their hinge units for around $85. can't buy better, probably can't buy cheaper either. JT out

 

[m16ty]

How about google Crysteel and buy one of their hinge units for around $85. can't buy better, probably can't buy cheaper either. JT out

That's not a bad deal. If you have to buy material and figure your time worth anything you'd have more than that in making some.

 

[kiotiugly]

Yes, the hoist is going on my Deuce and no, it does not have power steering. I'm sure that power steering would be better, but the whole thing that led me to a deuce was low price. It's gonna be used primarily on the farm for hauling and dumping, with very little over the road work. I'm still working on cleaning up from last winters ice storm and will be for quite some time. Most of the loads will be tree limbs for a while - not so heavy but very bulky.

I couldn't find hinges on crysteels website, but I didn't spend too much time looking either. I'm having my fab guy make a set of hinges/bushings that I'm going to bolt/weld on (for the best price of all!).

I've been measuring the frame members on the truck and bed and measuring my hoist. I hope to start putting it together within the next few weeks.

Thanks again for the help and input.

 

[kiotiugly]

It's been a little while, but I finally got the hoist on. I've hauled a few loads with it and it seems to work well for my purposes. The electric pump is a little slow, but it's still a lot faster than throwing things out by hand.

You'll probably notice that I need to repair the rear axle seals too, but that's a project for next spring (no place to work on it inside).

Thanks for the advice and help fellas.

Here's a few pictures.

 

[Stretch44875]

Looks good. One of the more useful modifications I've done. It is nice to unload the truck without a shovel.

 

[gringeltaube]

Looks good. One of the more useful modifications I've done. It is nice to unload the truck without a shovel.

 

[jblack6527]

That looks nice! Any chance you could shoot a vid of the rise time of the bed? I've always been curious about the difference between a pto driven pump and an electric one. A good friend of mine has a couple trucks with pto setups, but I've always wondered how much slower an electric was..