How to Add a Winch

[TroyHog]

Could you guys tell me what all modifications need/have to be made to add a winch to a truck that is W/OW. My 1983 923 has the controls in the cab, and the winch in and out has a cable attached to it and I found a hydraulic pump with a smooth shaft coming out of it. Not sure about the PTO though. My truck has a hydraulic reservoir on the side of the truck.

I bought an old Braden pto winch (30k) that I would like to stick on the front of it, just thought you guys could enlighten me some.

Thanks

 

[porkysplace]

There may be some info that will help you in these threads ;

Hydraulic Conversion of PTO Winch
converting winch

Tm's are free to download here ; 5-ton and up TMs

You should be able to look in the parts manual to determin what parts you have and what you need as far as the hydraulic pump is concerned . You will need to adapt a hydraulic motor to the winch also.

 

[m16ty]

I have everything you need except the PTO and pump listed in the classifieds- http://www.steelsoldiers.com/parts-sale/85932-m939-series-hyd-front-winch-1-000-a.html

The PTO and pump can be found on the civilian market. The hyd pump is a 14 GPM Vickers vane pump.

 

[Derrickl112]

You might need to connect the cable for the engage/disengage on the pto. At least I had to on my m923...

 

[TroyHog]

Am I being simple minded here - cause the older I get the more simple I become.

I thought I could just drive the old winch with a shaft coupled to the hydraulic pump that I located underneath the 923. The winch doesn't care what's turning the shaft right?

I need to determine if my truck has a pto pump though - are they attached to the transmission on an allison setup?

thanks

 

[Derrickl112]

You need to get hydraulic motor to put on the winch.

On the older trucks(like m813) the winches were pto driven. The pto on the transmission turned a driveshaft that went directly to the winch.

On the m923/925 the winches are hydraulic powered.

The pto is on the transmission.
The pto has a driveshaft on it that connects to the hydraulic pump
The hydraulic pump pumps oil to the hydraulic motor on the winch.

 

[Derrickl112]

..

 

[TroyHog]

Bear with me Derrick - as i know you feel like your talking to your 10yr old - i appreciate the patience.

How do I post a pic of the old winch on here - ****, maybe it won't work.

i still don't understand the logic of putting a hydraulic motor on the winch - yet - but keep pounding it into my head - cause every once in a while a dim light will come on!

 

[gimpyrobb]

If you can run a string from the winch shaft to the PTO that urns the pump, you might be able to power it with a PTO shaft(keep in mind frame flex and some extra clearance). If there is no direct route to the winch from the pto, you will need to convert it to HYDRO and run hoses to it.

Does that help any?

 

[TroyHog]

Ahhh yes, that does make sense - all of our old trucks (line trucks - digger derricks) had a pto driven winch - but I was not thinking about a straight line of sight from the winch to the hydraulic motor.

I haven't got that deep yet. It would dawn on me eventually. That's why I started here.

Most of our trucks had a carrier bearing also.

Do you know what the hydraulic motor was for on the 923 since it wasn't equipped with a winch?

Thanks

 

[m16ty]

If you can run a string from the winch shaft to the PTO that urns the pump, you might be able to power it with a PTO shaft(keep in mind frame flex and some extra clearance). If there is no direct route to the winch from the pto, you will need to convert it to HYDRO and run hoses to it.

Does that help any?

Gimpy, the only problem with that is the PTO output faces the rear on the M939 trucks so there will be no direct route.

Troy, you can not directly couple a shaft drive winch to a hyd pump. They are two completely different kind of drives. Your only options are either to mount a hyd motor on the winch and drive it by a hyd pump or figure some way to get a shaft from the PTO to the winch input. To power the winch shaft drive you'll have to either find a different PTO with a front output (the stock PTO may can be changed to front output, I don't know) or figure some way to make a 180 deg turn in the driveline with maybe a chain and sprockets or a gearbox or something.

 

[503m715]

I have some extra 900 series winch parts. I have the pto, pump and mount, filter, winch with motor. You would need frame extentions and winch mounts, the rest of the pto to pump shaft, hydraulic valve and it sounds like you have the control levers and cables. I also have several pictures of a stock 900 series winch setup I could email if needed.

 

[Beerslayer]

If you need a pump, I saw a new takeoff at the used truck parts place yesterday. It was all pretty and had fresh green paint on it, and looked just like the pump on the m925s.

 

[TroyHog]

M16TY:

i am still trying to get this into my engineer (electrical - obviously not mechanical) brain - so bear with me:

Maybe we are interchanging hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor terms. I crawled under my 923 and followed the "Winch In and Out" cable to a hydraulic "something" that had a shaft sticking out of it towards the front of the truck.

Does that help any with what it is? it seemed like probably an inch smooth shaft.

I was assuming that it was the hydraulic "something" that would drive the winch, but I could be wrong very easily. I still do not see the difference between mounting a hydraulic motor on the winch versus running a shaft from a hydraulic motor to the winch. Other than one has the drive motor closer to the winch itself. Anyway - like i said keep beating me over the head - every once in a while a dim light will come on.

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[TroyHog]

503m715:

how much do you have to have for your extra parts? Thanks

 

[503m715]

Sounds like you have a pto. I have $415 into the parts. They are at a friends place in Portland. I will get a picture of what I have this weekend. If you pm me your email address I will send you pictures of my parts and pictures from a factory winch truck.

 

[TroyHog]

how do i pm?

 

[503m715]

click on the handle/name of the person you wish to private message. A list of options will appear.

 

[503m715]

I guess you can choose to email from same list.

 

[m16ty]

M16TY:

i am still trying to get this into my engineer (electrical - obviously not mechanical) brain - so bear with me:

Maybe we are interchanging hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor terms. I crawled under my 923 and followed the "Winch In and Out" cable to a hydraulic "something" that had a shaft sticking out of it towards the front of the truck.

Does that help any with what it is? it seemed like probably an inch smooth shaft.

I was assuming that it was the hydraulic "something" that would drive the winch, but I could be wrong very easily. I still do not see the difference between mounting a hydraulic motor on the winch versus running a shaft from a hydraulic motor to the winch. Other than one has the drive motor closer to the winch itself. Anyway - like i said keep beating me over the head - every once in a while a dim light will come on.

Thanks for the help!!!

The hyd "something" is a hyd pump. The shaft goes from the pump to the PTO. The PTO is what drives the pump to make hyd pressure. The PTO is driven by a gear inside the trans it's bolted to.

There won't be a cable going to the pump itself. On the stock setup, one cable goes to the PTO (to engage and disengage it) and the other goes to the control valve (to operate the winch forward, reverse, and hold).

I think where you are getting confused in the terms "pump and "motor". The pump makes the hyd pressure. The motor converts the hyd pressure into work by means of a rotating shaft.

If you've already got a pump (the thing the PTO is attached to via a driveshaft), what you need is a hyd motor to attach to your winch to drive it. It gets a little more complicated than that when you go tying in a hyd tank and control valve into the system but you need to get the basics down first and then we can work on hooking it all up.

Some pics of what you've actually got on the truck already would be great. I'm thinking you may already have everything you need except a hyd motor.