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"We the children" an observation about our civil liberties when collecting MV curios

DRTOW

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"We the children" an observation about our civil liberties when collecting MV curios

Hello all, New to the site but like what I see here.

Up to this point my budget has limited me to scale models and remote control replicas. I feel extremely fortunate to have some engineering skills and the ability to work hands on with a piece of machinery and enjoy that feeling of problem solving and accomplishment.

So recently I was going to take on building another bigger better Jeep XJ and maybe even stuff an LS1 under the bonnet. The I thought, why put a lot of money into making a common vehicle unique when I could get some thing already unique with a little history allowing me to preserve it. I have always liked the HMMHV or really anything you could consider military collectable or military curio.

One of the G scale 1:32 trains I am working on was to include a Ft. Lost in the Woods train convey with a mixed payload from maybe M48A2 Series , M60, M103, a few HMMWV, APU(s)/MPU(s), etc etc etc.

I am actually going somewhere with all this babble. Better to give you idea who I am and how I think, and how I got to this point.

I started looking for a HMMWV project or even a club here in central Florida that did MV rehabilitation for a museum or such. I use to belong to the Southeast Railroad restorations down in Miami years ago. I had always be under the impression the military put a 10 year life cycle on HMMWV, I almost cried when I read the limitations of what has been imposed on the purchase of the vehicles or any almost any combat vehicle. Yes the very items that at the end of the day really belong to us "We the people who pay the taxes to keep this great nation's military going". The very same items our hard earned tax dollars paid for I can no longer collect or reuse is some capacity or other means of keeping these surplus items in a continued civilian service role. "Yes that mean even for a memorial day parade"

I understand the need to protect our fellow citizens, but the ones our government claims they protecting are the very same one who cannot buy or own this surplus in a novelty capacity. I know things change and its not the way it was years back when you could take a trip to the local DMRO/DLA and pick up a few items. Now its a private company and its a rat race to make a buck and those wanting to preserve was few items remain are left out in the cold. I am ok with filling out a few forms and letting them make the item safe from firing ammunition or removing the TS hardware. But give me the option, let me have the freedom to try to obtain a reusable vehicle. You can keep the TS active armor I have no use for it.

You and I, "We the people", this is suppose to be our soil. We elect officials handle daily operation of that land. But we should never let them decide anything that compromises our civil liberties. When it comes to business decisions, that has an affect on our freedoms and civil liberties, They need to step aside and vote on it with the rest of their fellow citizens. We should be making the decisions not bureaucrats cowing to the scared few. The ones who have not paid the cost to enjoy such freedoms. The ones who want control, the ones who do not trust his fellow citizen. The ones that want everything handed to them or feels they should be the only one making the decisions. Besides being a citizen of this great country I am lucky to have this privilege as I am also lucky to have a second country that calls me one of its people. I am also a dual-ee Canadian or more specific a Newfie. I was born on US soil while my American father and Canadian mother where state-side. As I wrote above I understand if you have to jump through a few hoops to obtained and prove your not going to drive an M1 through congress. That you want to as a collector and I have no reason to have the need to use the active armor or barrel rifling one day. As I also wrote give me that chance don't cut me off cold. I did a little checking at it is easier for me to own such items in Newfoundland than it is in Florida. This more sad than it is aggravating. I feel as if we have went from

co-worker and he made a comment that stopped me in my tracks. He said "Since 911 the government has put all kinds of laws in place to keep us safe" WHAT? I replied. One of two things have happened. One, we gave up our rights and threw our well being blindly in the hands of the government we elected because we were too scared to face who we are. or two, we have been invaded by another country who is wining and has taken control of our government. Either way we allowed this to happen, we are the ones responsible. We have given into the soccer mom mentality. We have blame our government for failing to protect, blame them for not providing to the poor, blame them for this, blame them for that. Instead it should be blame the criminal who attacked us, blame the misspending. Blame the problems. Stop taking away my freedoms because someone else abused them. Get rid of zero tolerance, get rid of anything that keeps us from doing the hard work that it takes to build and maintain this great country. "We the People" to "We the Children"


With all that being said, Are there any groups who are starting or have started small and moved up the ladder to get some of these law regulations for disposal changed?

The Iraq army and ISIS can own and operate a working M1 Abrams or HMMWV for offensive destructive use, but we can even obtain a out of service "made safe" version for our local veterans and collectors to keep as a collectable to preserve and remember history. I have a better chance bringing in British or Russian hardware than I do getting a recently decommissioned HMMWV.

If something I wrote does not make sense or you want me to elaborate please ask. I am not perfect and unlike most I do understand and respect there are other points of view.
 

Jeepsinker

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We all feel the same way buddy, but I fear there is little we can do about any of it. Also, you would do well to carefully read the forum rules because you are bordering on breaking them with this post. Thank you for saying what we all want to say anyway though.
 

CARNAC

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I concur with ALL that Jeepsinker said. I would only add that when posting a dissertation such as this, go back and re-read it twice to ensure clarity.

That goes for anyone writing posts such as this and/or thinking about writing a letter to their elected officials. Bottom line up front, 3-5 supporting sentences and then onto the next key point. You have to think "Blah, blah, blah = round basket" regardless if the 4th blah was replaced with a highly key point.

If you go over 13 lines other than the greeting and closing, go back and redo it until you get to 13 lines. Multiple topics in one letter should state the topics up front and have no more than 13 lines per topic with clear delineation between topics.

Be relevant, be brief and be gone.
 

Flyingvan911

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The reason for the HMMVW rules comes down to liability and money more than national security. Do a search and you'll find some threads about it.
 

Al Harvey

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With all that being said, Are there any groups who are starting or have started small and moved up the ladder to get some of these law regulations for disposal changed?
This is the big question. Has anyone started a group to try and get things changed? Things can change but there has to be enough desire to get it done. I also would like to know who has tried and get some of the rules changed, not just the normal response of "It's not gonna happen, enough said" We have people from this site who have been able to get laws passed in their states in support of MVs. Why can't we do this on a larger scale? I guess the biggest question is to find out where the best place is to plead our case. Would it be through Congress, DoD, or straight to an administration? (NO COMMENTS ON ANY FORMER, CURRENT, or FUTURE ADMINISTRATIONS) Lets tailor away from the "political" aspect and focus on the goal of getting something changed. Support is the key to get something done.
 

dmetalmiki

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<Redacted>
Seconded...(and) phew, that was really heavy going, plus Carnacs post hit the nail on the head with, "I concur with ALL that Jeepsinker said. I would only add that when posting a dissertation such as this, go back and re-read it twice to ensure clarity."
 

DRTOW

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I apologize for the babble. I suffer from expressive language disorder as well does my daughter who was mistakenly diagnosed as ADD. I would be interested in any information where individuals have ask for the specific reasoning. This would be my starting point and then consult an attorney for direction and if any civil liberties are involved.

I really hate hobbies. My fist hobby 40 years ago was the novelty of computers that shortly there after turned into a life time career. :)

On a lighter note I think I have found an old willies, but it looks as if someone stuffed a 302 in it.
 

Jeepsinker

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If you think you can get the ball rolling on getting armor released to the public, by all means give us an opportunity and we'll gladly be on board. That is something we could all get together to help along I think.
 

saddamsnightmare

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January 14th, 2015.

Wait until you gentlemen start collecting Military railroad locomotives, unless they are the really little narrow guage diesels (about the size of a medium farm tractor), you will really get some pain and suffering on your plate. I have also found that Military tugboats over 45' will cause indigestion in most towns and cities, unless they have a fair amount of commercial business on their waterfronts... Yachts yes, tugboats,no!
 

TechnoWeenie

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Armor is scary. There is no real threat as anyone could buy an armored truck for less than one could buy an uparmored HMMWV or MRAP at auction..

No reason someone can't up armor their own rigs... AR500 plates are fairly inexpensive..
 
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BnaditCorps

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Armor is scary. Just like black rifles. There is no real threat as anyone could buy an armored truck for less than one could buy an uparmored HMMWV or MRAP at auction..

No reason someone can't up armor their own rigs... AR500 plates are fairly inexpensive..
Exactly the point, if someone can buy a Ford F250 (For example) and then put armor plating in the truck and make it resistant to anything up to a .50 BMG, then why make us not able to buy armor?

Same goes for armor, if I want an armored vehicle, well i will get one legally or illegally. The only difference being that if i choose to go legally I will have to jump through hoops, which i would not mind. Besides, if we all own armor then who will want to invade or attack us.

There is no way that the criminals will win that debate, a thorough background check would make the armor only go to the right people. Now this does not always work, and if it falls into the wrong hands, then we will see another one of these. However that is a rare circumstance, likely to never happen.
Due to:
  1. You have to know where one is
  2. How to drive it
  3. Know its limits
  4. and you will not escape, purely because unless you have an anti air missile capable of taking out aircraft 10,000ft or higher, well you know where i am going.
 
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saddamsnightmare

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November 14th, 2015.


Gents:

I always find the discussions on here interesting, although sometimes the logic escapes me. It's rather like in England you can't own a pistol, but you can own an 8" long tom artillery piece from WWII, because its a single shot rifle? As the old Artie Johnson routine on Laugh In: "Very Interesting, but very stupid!"

After the uproar yesterday in France, I will pretty much bet that the subject of functional, non-military or non-LE armor in the states will become less and less likely. As to the French people, I send my condolences, as to the folks in charge over here, I say warm up both the B-52's and the A-10's, as there are some terrorist types that need fed to the fishes, the snakes, or whatever in that neck of the woods dines liberally on anything human.........

In any case, I don't see much use for armor, as it all has weak spots and if they are used, it is generally a deathtrap for the crew. In 1981 the life expectancy of armor crew in combat would have been around ten minutes or so.... The enlistment bonuses were good, but all it would take is a US or Russian version of an A-10 and your day is, shall we say, shot. In any case, I shall sit back and watch to see what the results are with this one.:popcorn:
 
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m16ty

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I feel the need to remind everybody that per the site rules firearms and politics not related to the MV hobby aren't allowed. I've edited a couple of post to make them in line with site rules.

To discuss the politics related to the MV hobby are fine but firearms politics are better suited for other sites.
 
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